EU Renegotiation

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EU Renegotiation

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Kermit8 Hevon 02 Feb 16 10.31pm
Originally posted by rob1969 We probably will not be better off - could even be a little worse off economically If economy is your concern then safer to stay in EU. However those who would prefer to leave generally have other priorities apart from economics. So, that's it then really. If we are going to be worse off economically and that is made clear then the Brexit vote in the referendum will be nowhere near 50.1%. The undecided will easily be swayed by that. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 02 Feb 16 10.31pm

Originally posted by rob1969

We probably will not be better off - could even be a little worse off economically If economy is your concern then safer to stay in EU. However those who would prefer to leave generally have other priorities apart from economics.

So, that's it then really. If we are going to be worse off economically and that is made clear then the Brexit vote in the referendum will be nowhere near 50.1%. The undecided will easily be swayed by that.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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leifandersonshair Newport 03 Feb 16 7.51am
Originally posted by Kermit8 Hmm..business leaders generally think we are better off in the EU than we would be if we left. Do you have any info to genuinely undermine their position? Why exactly would be be better off economically if we left. Facts only please. I'm actually pro EU. I think the economy would tank if we left. I am merely pointing out that, based on what Cameron stated he WANTED to achieve, the negotiations failed. Cameron got a watered down deal at best. However, I am sure the Murdoch Media will be trumpeting it as a triumph of Churchillian proportions!
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leifandersonshair

Newport 03 Feb 16 7.51am

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Originally posted by Kermit8

Hmm..business leaders generally think we are better off in the EU than we would be if we left. Do you have any info to genuinely undermine their position? Why exactly would be be better off economically if we left. Facts only please.

I'm actually pro EU. I think the economy would tank if we left. I am merely pointing out that, based on what Cameron stated he WANTED to achieve, the negotiations failed. Cameron got a watered down deal at best.

However, I am sure the Murdoch Media will be trumpeting it as a triumph of Churchillian proportions!

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npn Crowborough 03 Feb 16 11.09am
It's alright - it's all sorted: [Link]
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npn

Crowborough 03 Feb 16 11.09am

It's alright - it's all sorted:

[Link]

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Hoof Hearted 03 Feb 16 12.49pm
Cameron has set the bar very low with his "demands". The rest of Europe must be thinking what is he up to and are not agreeing to any of it except to water down his very watered down requests (sorry demands LOL). If we do not take back our right to control our own borders and sovereignty we will be fcuked as a country in about 30 years under the weight of over population and EU bureaucracy. Cameron misunderstands the problem - Eastern Europeans are flocking here because pay is much higher here and it's not a sh1thole, unlike where they live now. If we stopped paying benefits they would still come. Those asylum seekers from Syria etc we think we are preventing letting them in now will soon have EU passports issued by their host countries and will be free to come here thereafter and there will be fcuk all we can do about it. Meanwhile we will still have our judges decisions over-ruled by Brussels when we attempt to deport those immigrants that break the law by raping and murdering our citizens.... And our share of contributions towards this madness increasing exponentially and unfairly compared to the rest of the members! If you have a brain and you love Britain, vote out. Otherwise vote to stay in to see the EU bureaucrats destroy our beloved country.
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Hoof Hearted 03 Feb 16 12.49pm

Cameron has set the bar very low with his "demands".

The rest of Europe must be thinking what is he up to and are not agreeing to any of it except to water down his very watered down requests (sorry demands LOL).

If we do not take back our right to control our own borders and sovereignty we will be fcuked as a country in about 30 years under the weight of over population and EU bureaucracy.

Cameron misunderstands the problem - Eastern Europeans are flocking here because pay is much higher here and it's not a sh1thole, unlike where they live now. If we stopped paying benefits they would still come.

Those asylum seekers from Syria etc we think we are preventing letting them in now will soon have EU passports issued by their host countries and will be free to come here thereafter and there will be fcuk all we can do about it.

Meanwhile we will still have our judges decisions over-ruled by Brussels when we attempt to deport those immigrants that break the law by raping and murdering our citizens.... And our share of contributions towards this madness increasing exponentially and unfairly compared to the rest of the members!

If you have a brain and you love Britain, vote out.

Otherwise vote to stay in to see the EU bureaucrats destroy our beloved country.

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We are goin up! Coulsdon 03 Feb 16 1.08pm
Safer to stay in the EU economically? Not for me. I'd rather we came out and made free trade deals with economies that aren't sinking ships. There is a better world out there than the EU which is clearly broken. Besides, no-one in their right mind actually thinks that the EU (which needs to export to survive) will cut off the UK from tariff removals. They need us more than we need them. I really wanted to be persuaded to stay in the EU but this "deal" is taking the piss. That's before you even get on to national sovereignty, standardised welfare and immigration. I see no other option now than to leave. If Cameron had a backbone he'd reject the deal and campaign to leave. I think it would play favourably for him, he'd be seen as a gutsy PM. Could be a good legacy for him. Edited by We are goin up! (03 Feb 2016 1.08pm) The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
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We are goin up!

Coulsdon 03 Feb 16 1.08pm

Send a Private Message to We are goin up!

Safer to stay in the EU economically? Not for me. I'd rather we came out and made free trade deals with economies that aren't sinking ships. There is a better world out there than the EU which is clearly broken. Besides, no-one in their right mind actually thinks that the EU (which needs to export to survive) will cut off the UK from tariff removals. They need us more than we need them. I really wanted to be persuaded to stay in the EU but this "deal" is taking the piss.

That's before you even get on to national sovereignty, standardised welfare and immigration. I see no other option now than to leave. If Cameron had a backbone he'd reject the deal and campaign to leave. I think it would play favourably for him, he'd be seen as a gutsy PM. Could be a good legacy for him.

Edited by We are goin up! (03 Feb 2016 1.08pm)

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Feb 16 1.14pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted Cameron has set the bar very low with his "demands". The rest of Europe must be thinking what is he up to and are not agreeing to any of it except to water down his very watered down requests (sorry demands LOL). If we do not take back our right to control our own borders and sovereignty we will be fcuked as a country in about 30 years under the weight of over population and EU bureaucracy. Cameron misunderstands the problem - Eastern Europeans are flocking here because pay is much higher here and it's not a sh1thole, unlike where they live now. If we stopped paying benefits they would still come. Those asylum seekers from Syria etc we think we are preventing letting them in now will soon have EU passports issued by their host countries and will be free to come here thereafter and there will be fcuk all we can do about it. Meanwhile we will still have our judges decisions over-ruled by Brussels when we attempt to deport those immigrants that break the law by raping and murdering our citizens.... And our share of contributions towards this madness increasing exponentially and unfairly compared to the rest of the members! If you have a brain and you love Britain, vote out. Otherwise vote to stay in to see the EU bureaucrats destroy our beloved country. No Hyperbole here Its actually our own laws that prevent us from deporting criminals generally, no the EU. The conflict lies in the British law, and that's why its referred to the ECHR. The government could simply choose to define grounds on which deportation of criminals can progress. Its complicated by the fact that most of the cases you hear about involve people who's duration of porridge also has exceeded the period of time as a UK resident required to be considered a 'citizen of the UK'. Interestingly this has been a product of the desire to imprison people that were previously deported rather than imprisoned. The 'publics' desire to see people punished resulted in the idea of deportation after their prison sentence was served. However this is much more difficult because of how the Rehabilitation of Offenders act is defined (note its not the punishment of offenders act) - Its certainly a lot easier to deport someone after conviction, before imprisoning them than it is after they've served their time. The problem is that the UK Government has to abide by its own laws, definitions and legal system - Which requires it be fair and impartial. Deporting people after they've been 'rehabilitated' is always going to be more difficult, than deporting and excluding them. Leaving the EU won't actually make it any easier to 'do what we want', because Parliament would still be bound by the Laws of the Country. As Cameron and co found when they were looking to 'remove the human rights act' - it isn't the problem, the problem is trying to enforce laws that are contradictory. Its just easy to blame the EU. The reason we didn't have this problem over a decade ago, is because we deported offenders on conviction, not on release. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 03 Feb 16 1.14pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Cameron has set the bar very low with his "demands".

The rest of Europe must be thinking what is he up to and are not agreeing to any of it except to water down his very watered down requests (sorry demands LOL).

If we do not take back our right to control our own borders and sovereignty we will be fcuked as a country in about 30 years under the weight of over population and EU bureaucracy.

If you have a brain and you love Britain, vote out.

Otherwise vote to stay in to see the EU bureaucrats destroy our beloved country.

No Hyperbole here Its actually our own laws that prevent us from deporting criminals generally, no the EU. The conflict lies in the British law, and that's why its referred to the ECHR. The government could simply choose to define grounds on which deportation of criminals can progress. Its complicated by the fact that most of the cases you hear about involve people who's duration of porridge also has exceeded the period of time as a UK resident required to be considered a 'citizen of the UK'.

Interestingly this has been a product of the desire to imprison people that were previously deported rather than imprisoned. The 'publics' desire to see people punished resulted in the idea of deportation after their prison sentence was served. However this is much more difficult because of how the Rehabilitation of Offenders act is defined (note its not the punishment of offenders act) - Its certainly a lot easier to deport someone after conviction, before imprisoning them than it is after they've served their time.

The problem is that the UK Government has to abide by its own laws, definitions and legal system - Which requires it be fair and impartial. Deporting people after they've been 'rehabilitated' is always going to be more difficult, than deporting and excluding them.

Leaving the EU won't actually make it any easier to 'do what we want', because Parliament would still be bound by the Laws of the Country. As Cameron and co found when they were looking to 'remove the human rights act' - it isn't the problem, the problem is trying to enforce laws that are contradictory.

Its just easy to blame the EU. The reason we didn't have this problem over a decade ago, is because we deported offenders on conviction, not on release.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Feb 16 1.18pm
Originally posted by We are goin up! Safer to stay in the EU economically? Not for me. I'd rather we came out and made free trade deals with economies that aren't sinking ships. There is a better world out there than the EU which is clearly broken. Besides, no-one in their right mind actually thinks that the EU (which needs to export to survive) will cut off the UK from tariff removals. They need us more than we need them. I really wanted to be persuaded to stay in the EU but this "deal" is taking the piss. That's before you even get on to national sovereignty, standardised welfare and immigration. I see no other option now than to leave. If Cameron had a backbone he'd reject the deal and campaign to leave. I think it would play favourably for him, he'd be seen as a gutsy PM. Could be a good legacy for him. Edited by We are goin up! (03 Feb 2016 1.08pm) The EU Trade body is one of the worlds largest trade body, its auspices don't just cover trade within the EU, but trade with non-EU members states. It has a lot of leverage and positioning in a global marked that a single country would lack. Arguably this was entirely what the EU was supposed to be about - Trade dominance, trade security and economic power, not regionalised policy politics. Its probably the one reason that most people would argue is the reason to stay within the EU. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 03 Feb 16 1.18pm

Originally posted by We are goin up!

Edited by We are goin up! (03 Feb 2016 1.08pm)

The EU Trade body is one of the worlds largest trade body, its auspices don't just cover trade within the EU, but trade with non-EU members states. It has a lot of leverage and positioning in a global marked that a single country would lack.

Arguably this was entirely what the EU was supposed to be about - Trade dominance, trade security and economic power, not regionalised policy politics. Its probably the one reason that most people would argue is the reason to stay within the EU.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 03 Feb 16 2.11pm
Kick out Johnny Foreigner, re-establish the death penalty and re-introduce corporal punishment, make Greece sell their islands to pay their debt, demote Germany, allow UK citizens total freedom of movement around Europe but don't reciprocate, ban the BBC, send travellers over to Ireland, and loads more. Then, and only then, should anyone with a brain vote to stay in the EU. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 03 Feb 16 2.11pm

Kick out Johnny Foreigner, re-establish the death penalty and re-introduce corporal punishment, make Greece sell their islands to pay their debt, demote Germany, allow UK citizens total freedom of movement around Europe but don't reciprocate, ban the BBC, send travellers over to Ireland, and loads more.

Then, and only then, should anyone with a brain vote to stay in the EU.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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matt_himself Matataland 03 Feb 16 2.44pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Kick out Johnny Foreigner, re-establish the death penalty and re-introduce corporal punishment, make Greece sell their islands to pay their debt, demote Germany, allow UK citizens total freedom of movement around Europe but don't reciprocate, ban the BBC, send travellers over to Ireland, and loads more. Then, and only then, should anyone with a brain vote to stay in the EU. You forgot that we be allowed to bomb and invade foreign lands as we please, because we know what's best for the World. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 03 Feb 16 2.44pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Then, and only then, should anyone with a brain vote to stay in the EU.

You forgot that we be allowed to bomb and invade foreign lands as we please, because we know what's best for the World.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 03 Feb 16 2.45pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted If you have a brain and you love Britain, vote out. Otherwise vote to stay in to see the EU bureaucrats destroy our beloved country. Hear Hear ! I wholly endorse these sentiments.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 03 Feb 16 2.45pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

If you have a brain and you love Britain, vote out.

Otherwise vote to stay in to see the EU bureaucrats destroy our beloved country.

Hear Hear !

I wholly endorse these sentiments.

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matt_himself Matataland 03 Feb 16 2.50pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Hmm..business leaders generally think we are better off in the EU than we would be if we left. Do you have any info to genuinely undermine their position? Why exactly would be be better off economically if we left. Facts only please. Michael, are these the same business leaders you and Gusset regularly bash and call 'funds' for not paying tax? Or for their usage of Zero Hour contracts? Funny how they appear to command your respect when it comes to Europe, yet otherwise they appear to collectively worse than Hitler. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 03 Feb 16 2.50pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Michael, are these the same business leaders you and Gusset regularly bash and call 'funds' for not paying tax? Or for their usage of Zero Hour contracts?

Funny how they appear to command your respect when it comes to Europe, yet otherwise they appear to collectively worse than Hitler.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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topcat Holmesdale / Surbiton 03 Feb 16 2.58pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted If you have a brain and you love Britain, vote out. Otherwise vote to stay in to see the EU bureaucrats destroy our beloved country. Originally posted by Willo Hear Hear ! I wholly endorse these sentiments. Interesting. Does this mean that you think that Tory MPs and Tory voters who vote out only have half a brain and don't love Britain? It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
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topcat

Holmesdale / Surbiton 03 Feb 16 2.58pm