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9 dead in USA Church Shooting.

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The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 19 Jun 15 1.28pm Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

This, plus those two animals who stamped all over that girl in Peckham and killed her unborn child make me despair of the human race...

 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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Stuk Flag Top half 19 Jun 15 1.46pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote The Sash at 19 Jun 2015 1.28pm

This, plus those two animals who stamped all over that girl in Peckham and killed her unborn child make me despair of the human race...

And the level of stupidity, on top of the outright evil, beggars belief.

Of course they'd never suspect it to be the father to be...

 


Optimistic as ever

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Jun 15 2.13pm

Quote derben at 19 Jun 2015 1.26pm

Yes, Danny is right. The young man was no doubt 'vulnerable' and upset by US foreign policy and 'idealistic', and the police and teachers did nothing to stop him.

Domestic policy.... You naughty apologist you...


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 19 Jun 15 2.30pm Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Quote derben at 19 Jun 2015 1.26pm

Yes, Danny is right. The young man was no doubt 'vulnerable' and upset by US foreign policy and 'idealistic', and the police and teachers did nothing to stop him.

I blame his local council.....


 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 19 Jun 15 4.47pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Quote suicideatselhurst at 18 Jun 2015 11.22am

Very funny but not really an argument for writing something out of their contistustion, and less likey with a republican president most likely next up


I really shouldn't need a constitutional amendment; it just needs to be interpreted differently. People focus on this:

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

But forget that the above phrase is (I believe) controlled by what comes before it. The full phrase is this:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

The authors clearly intended for the populace - in the 18th century - to be armed in lieu of a standing army. That need has long since passed, and therefore so has the right for the people to bear arms, in my humble opinion.

Also, multiple restrictions on this right have been approved and upheld as constitutional over the years: fully automatic weapons; military-spec weapons; nukes; etc. etc. etc. are all banned. So what we're talking about is moving the line on what's allowed and what's not, rather than repealing the 2nd Amendment.

The politics around this really are insane. Pro-gun activists gin up gun owners (mostly responsible hunters and the like) that Clinton W. / Obmama / Clinton H. is coming for your guns, and scream about ever tightening limitations on gun rights. The truth is that, since Clinton passed the assault weapons ban in 1994, there hasn't been a single restriction on gun "rights". And that ban was allowed to expire in 2004. The very things that were banned by that law - assault rifles and over-sized mags - have been used in multiple mass shootings since, including for the Aurora movie theatre shooting and, ever more heinously, in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

In the meantime, in the absence of any actual resistance to expansion of gun rights, gun laws have been pushed ever further and further. Concealed carry laws, to open carry laws, to "stand your ground", to open carry on school campus; all these are real things in America in 2015.

I seriously doubt that a Republican will win the Presidency in 2016. Also, it's very possible that the Deomocrats can take back control of the Senate because Republicans are defending the majority of the 1/3rd of the seats in play than are Democrats (the House is gerrymandered to such a ridiculous extent that power cannot shift there until after the 2020 census at least).

Regardless, gun laws will only change if there is a strong and consistent demand for change from the public. Politicians are mostly immune to public opinion, but every once in a while they are forced by the sheer will of public pressure to get something done. Gay rights have been sweeping across the states like a wildfire because they have 70+% support of the public. So do gun control restrictions (a simple background check requirement has about 97% approval) so, with the right amount of pressure, gun control regulations can be passed too.

The timing of this horrific crime may actually serve to make this finally happen.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 19 Jun 15 4.55pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Jun 2015 1.08pm

So is it terrorism? The man in question wanted to affect an outcome from his actions, that were politically motivated, and reflective of a lot of 'Far Right Extremist' groups in the US, who see themselves as a vanguard movement for the 'White Race'.


Absolutely it's terrorism. But terrorism by white christians has always been excused for being perpetrated by rare, lone nutjobs, even though they a not rare, often not lone (nutjobs I'll give them, though).

Timothy McVeigh was a white christian who targeted the federal government. Not terrorism?

Dr. George Tiller was assassinated (in church) by a white christian, who had strong ties to ant-abortion activist organisations and probable aid and assistance from them in his murderous endeavour.

Cliven Bundy and his merry band of white christians faced down the federal government at his ranch in Nevada last year. The feds backed off because it was clear that it would end up in a shootout, and it was only over Bundy's persistent flouting of federal graving rules for his cattle.

There are many, many more examples. It's never labelled terrorism because they don't fit the preferred narrative of terrorists being non-christian and non-white.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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derben Flag 19 Jun 15 5.29pm

Quote Ray in Houston at 19 Jun 2015 4.55pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Jun 2015 1.08pm

So is it terrorism? The man in question wanted to affect an outcome from his actions, that were politically motivated, and reflective of a lot of 'Far Right Extremist' groups in the US, who see themselves as a vanguard movement for the 'White Race'.


Absolutely it's terrorism. But terrorism by white christians has always been excused for being perpetrated by rare, lone nutjobs, even though they a not rare, often not lone (nutjobs I'll give them, though).

Timothy McVeigh was a white christian who targeted the federal government. Not terrorism?

Dr. George Tiller was assassinated (in church) by a white christian, who had strong ties to ant-abortion activist organisations and probable aid and assistance from them in his murderous endeavour.

Cliven Bundy and his merry band of white christians faced down the federal government at his ranch in Nevada last year. The feds backed off because it was clear that it would end up in a shootout, and it was only over Bundy's persistent flouting of federal graving rules for his cattle.

There are many, many more examples. It's never labelled terrorism because they don't fit the preferred narrative of terrorists being non-christian and non-white.

So have I got this right? When an outrage involves a white Christian, religion is central to them doing it, but when it is a non-white Muslim, religion has got nothing to do with it?

 

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Jamesrichards8 Flag 19 Jun 15 5.30pm Send a Private Message to Jamesrichards8 Add Jamesrichards8 as a friend

Quote suicideatselhurst at 18 Jun 2015 11.22am

Quote SirPeanut at 18 Jun 2015 11.04am

This is the best argument for gun control by anyone ever! Fact.

[Link]

Be careful at work, it's a tad sweary!


Very funny but not really an argument for writing something out of their contistustion, and less likey with a republican president most likely next up


I wouldn't bet on it.

 


When you’re knocked on your back and your life’s a flop...

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johnfirewall Flag 19 Jun 15 5.39pm Send a Private Message to johnfirewall Add johnfirewall as a friend

According to the Independent it's racism leading to him being declared mentally ill while a black attacker would be branded a 'thug' and a Muslim a 'terrorist'.

Specious nonsense in light of the fact that these people are usually tried in court as mentally ill and the existence of white terrorists who are happily presented as such in the (UK) press.

Not that I've even seen any outlet denouncing him as just some mental bloke anyway so heaven knows what they're basing that on.

 

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derben Flag 19 Jun 15 5.48pm

Surely it is some sort of CIA plot, like everything else that happens?

 

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legaleagle Flag 19 Jun 15 5.51pm

Quote derben at 19 Jun 2015 5.29pm

Quote Ray in Houston at 19 Jun 2015 4.55pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Jun 2015 1.08pm

So is it terrorism? The man in question wanted to affect an outcome from his actions, that were politically motivated, and reflective of a lot of 'Far Right Extremist' groups in the US, who see themselves as a vanguard movement for the 'White Race'.


Absolutely it's terrorism. But terrorism by white christians has always been excused for being perpetrated by rare, lone nutjobs, even though they a not rare, often not lone (nutjobs I'll give them, though).

Timothy McVeigh was a white christian who targeted the federal government. Not terrorism?

Dr. George Tiller was assassinated (in church) by a white christian, who had strong ties to ant-abortion activist organisations and probable aid and assistance from them in his murderous endeavour.

Cliven Bundy and his merry band of white christians faced down the federal government at his ranch in Nevada last year. The feds backed off because it was clear that it would end up in a shootout, and it was only over Bundy's persistent flouting of federal graving rules for his cattle.

There are many, many more examples. It's never labelled terrorism because they don't fit the preferred narrative of terrorists being non-christian and non-white.

So have I got this right? When an outrage involves a white Christian, religion is central to them doing it, but when it is a non-white Muslim, religion has got nothing to do with it?


Or perhaps the point is more this: no religion has a monopoly or exclusivity when it comes to nutters carrying out fiendish acts of violence, claiming they were motivated,in part or in full,by their religious beliefs.

The other point perhaps to be drawn is the essential evil of racism and those who would perpetuate the views from which such evils arise by basing much of their world view around supposed negative inherent differences between people of different race,ethnicity or religion to them.

 

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derben Flag 19 Jun 15 6.01pm

Quote legaleagle at 19 Jun 2015 5.51pm

Quote derben at 19 Jun 2015 5.29pm

Quote Ray in Houston at 19 Jun 2015 4.55pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Jun 2015 1.08pm

So is it terrorism? The man in question wanted to affect an outcome from his actions, that were politically motivated, and reflective of a lot of 'Far Right Extremist' groups in the US, who see themselves as a vanguard movement for the 'White Race'.


Absolutely it's terrorism. But terrorism by white christians has always been excused for being perpetrated by rare, lone nutjobs, even though they a not rare, often not lone (nutjobs I'll give them, though).

Timothy McVeigh was a white christian who targeted the federal government. Not terrorism?

Dr. George Tiller was assassinated (in church) by a white christian, who had strong ties to ant-abortion activist organisations and probable aid and assistance from them in his murderous endeavour.

Cliven Bundy and his merry band of white christians faced down the federal government at his ranch in Nevada last year. The feds backed off because it was clear that it would end up in a shootout, and it was only over Bundy's persistent flouting of federal graving rules for his cattle.

There are many, many more examples. It's never labelled terrorism because they don't fit the preferred narrative of terrorists being non-christian and non-white.

So have I got this right? When an outrage involves a white Christian, religion is central to them doing it, but when it is a non-white Muslim, religion has got nothing to do with it?


Or perhaps the point is more this: no religion has a monopoly or exclusivity when it comes to nutters carrying out fiendish acts of violence, claiming they were motivated,in part or in full,by their religious beliefs.

The other point perhaps to be drawn is the essential evil of racism and those who would perpetuate the views from which such evils arise by basing much of their world view around supposed negative inherent differences between people of different race,ethnicity or religion to them.

Clearly there was a racist motive, not at all clear that there was any sort of religious motive. Of course racism is evil; unfortunately pretending that multiculturalism works and that everyone gets along fine with each other helps to fuel racism. It is also extremely unhelpful and disingenuous to brand all and sundry that do not conform to particular views on how communities interact, as racist.

Edited by derben (19 Jun 2015 6.03pm)

 

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