Homelessness

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Homelessness

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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Feb 15 11.19am
Quote legaleagle at 26 Feb 2015 11.49pm Not sure it does.Rather,I think the statistics weaken that argument.According to the figures published today, net more non EU immigrants came here in the 12 month period than EU immigrants and their numbers increased at a higher rate than net EU immigrants. Asylum seekers (though much spotlighted in parts of the press) have accounted for perhaps 20,000-30,000 people applying for (not necessarily being granted) asylum each year 2008-12,so factually a minority part of non EU immigration. So, whatever one's thoughts of the reasons for/merits/lack of merits about immigration,it would seem that the majority of the numbers concern wholly UK government set policies rather than the EU or UN. And from the non EU figures,it would also be relevant to strap out overseas students (hghly beneficial to the UK economy short and long term and crucial to keeping our universities afloat nowadays) and those working for "international" companies where significant numbers of Brits go to work abroad in similar circumstances as well. So,the average immigrant in the 12 month period may not be "Johnny new EU nation foreigner" The number of Romanians/Bulgarians who arrived were I think c.36,000,a much lower figure than the shock horror numbers confidently predicted beforehand in parts of the press.As the Daily Express put it in a headline in October 2012:"Now 29m Bulgarians and Romanians can soon move to Britain" Asylum seekers shouldn't be classed as migrants - as they are restricted from employment and their reasons for being in the UK are based on UN obligations of protection. At no point should the UK ever be refusing to accept or process Asylum cases - Its a very different form of immigration. If so many EU migrants are homeless it suggest that the 'easy benefits' option of the UK isn't as easy as suggested - In all likelihood, a number of these will be those who came to fill cheap labour positions that have since been closed down in the economic downturn. Edited by jamiemartin721 (02 Apr 2015 10.13am) "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 27 Feb 15 11.19am

Quote legaleagle at 26 Feb 2015 11.49pm

Not sure it does.Rather,I think the statistics weaken that argument.According to the figures published today, net more non EU immigrants came here in the 12 month period than EU immigrants and their numbers increased at a higher rate than net EU immigrants.

Asylum seekers (though much spotlighted in parts of the press) have accounted for perhaps 20,000-30,000 people applying for (not necessarily being granted) asylum each year 2008-12,so factually a minority part of non EU immigration.

So, whatever one's thoughts of the reasons for/merits/lack of merits about immigration,it would seem that the majority of the numbers concern wholly UK government set policies rather than the EU or UN.

And from the non EU figures,it would also be relevant to strap out overseas students (hghly beneficial to the UK economy short and long term and crucial to keeping our universities afloat nowadays) and those working for "international" companies where significant numbers of Brits go to work abroad in similar circumstances as well.

So,the average immigrant in the 12 month period may not be "Johnny new EU nation foreigner"

The number of Romanians/Bulgarians who arrived were I think c.36,000,a much lower figure than the shock horror numbers confidently predicted beforehand in parts of the press.As the Daily Express put it in a headline in October 2012:"Now 29m Bulgarians and Romanians can soon move to Britain"

Asylum seekers shouldn't be classed as migrants - as they are restricted from employment and their reasons for being in the UK are based on UN obligations of protection. At no point should the UK ever be refusing to accept or process Asylum cases - Its a very different form of immigration.

If so many EU migrants are homeless it suggest that the 'easy benefits' option of the UK isn't as easy as suggested - In all likelihood, a number of these will be those who came to fill cheap labour positions that have since been closed down in the economic downturn.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (02 Apr 2015 10.13am)

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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serial thriller The Promised Land 27 Feb 15 12.49pm
Quote becky at 26 Feb 2015 8.18pm "With over half of London's rough sleepers now being foreign nationals it is important that migrants who come to this country are able to support themselves so they do not become destitute" Well, that accounts for London's 50% increase then! It's an incredibly lazy and ignorant quote for a 'homeless minister' to come out with isn't it? I doubt that any developed nation in history has needed immigration to plug the shortage of high-paid secure jobs in their country. It's not like we have nationals with degree-level qualifications crawling over each other for the latest construction or cleaning jobs, but leaving the neurosurgeon and property developer jobs for the new wave of Bulgarians and Romanians. Immigration is predominantly needed because we have a load of poorly paid service and manufacturing jobs which are incredibly difficult to fill, mainly because people who want a job with a bit of dignity and security won't touch them with a bargepole. That obviously means that immigrants are looking for jobs which are insecure and low-paid, so will disproportionately be affected by issues such as homelessness which affect people at the bottom of the socio-economic pile. For a 'homeless minister' to blame IMMIGRANTS for not being able to support themselves is not only moving the blame away from who should be providing said support (the government) but also overlooking the fundamental economic reasoning for immigration. Bit like if we played Gayle up front and blamed him for not scoring but had brought back Wayne Andrews and Calvin Andrew on the wing to give him service. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 27 Feb 15 12.49pm

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Quote becky at 26 Feb 2015 8.18pm

"With over half of London's rough sleepers now being foreign nationals it is important that migrants who come to this country are able to support themselves so they do not become destitute"

Well, that accounts for London's 50% increase then!

It's an incredibly lazy and ignorant quote for a 'homeless minister' to come out with isn't it?

I doubt that any developed nation in history has needed immigration to plug the shortage of high-paid secure jobs in their country. It's not like we have nationals with degree-level qualifications crawling over each other for the latest construction or cleaning jobs, but leaving the neurosurgeon and property developer jobs for the new wave of Bulgarians and Romanians. Immigration is predominantly needed because we have a load of poorly paid service and manufacturing jobs which are incredibly difficult to fill, mainly because people who want a job with a bit of dignity and security won't touch them with a bargepole.

That obviously means that immigrants are looking for jobs which are insecure and low-paid, so will disproportionately be affected by issues such as homelessness which affect people at the bottom of the socio-economic pile. For a 'homeless minister' to blame IMMIGRANTS for not being able to support themselves is not only moving the blame away from who should be providing said support (the government) but also overlooking the fundamental economic reasoning for immigration. Bit like if we played Gayle up front and blamed him for not scoring but had brought back Wayne Andrews and Calvin Andrew on the wing to give him service.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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chris123 hove actually 01 Apr 15 7.24pm
Quote chris123 at 27 Feb 2015 8.57am Quote crystal balls at 27 Feb 2015 8.38am Quote chris123 at 26 Feb 2015 10.18pm Quote crystal balls at 26 Feb 2015 10.04pm Quote chris123 at 26 Feb 2015 9.54pm Quote crystal balls at 26 Feb 2015 9.31pm Quote Stuk at 26 Feb 2015 8.49pm Quote nickgusset at 26 Feb 2015 8.40pm Quote Helmet46 at 26 Feb 2015 8.37pm Quote moylerg at 26 Feb 2015 8.21pm Quote Helmet46 at 26 Feb 2015 8.17pm It's poor. They're all sh1te. The previous lot didn't have a glowing record of results on many things. In other words dependent upon the stat you're looking for they've all got shocking records. Just pick a topic! [Link] One might even dare to add that with more than half of homeless people considered to be immigrants, then the current statistics are as a direct result of the previous government's appalling immigration record. Just saying. Edit: sorry, just saw your kind of related post Becky Edited by moylerg (26 Feb 2015 8.22pm) Ouch. Are you suggesting that the wonderful Labour Party allowed so many unskilled people through our borders that the increase in homelessness could, in part, be down to their ridiculously flawed immigration policy? [Link] Net migration is 50000 higher this year than when the ConDems came to power, yet people still blame the Labour cunds... Because the economy and outlook is better than compared to then. And other parts of the world, even close to home, are still s***ty. Actually, a number of investment experts are suggesting that Europe and Japanese economies are due for out performance this year and next, as both are now in the early stages of quantative easing, or stimulating the economy, a tactic already employed in the US and UK. The immigration policy under both recent governments in the UK would have to be considered flawed by your measure Helmet, as both have presided over increased numbers. In Labour's defence, at least they never promised to reduce immigration and failed, unlike Cameron. However, the idea that immigration to ageing nations is negative doesn't bare scrutiny. Countries such as ourselves, Italy, Germany and especially Japan need taxpayers to support increasing numbers of pensioners, and the birth rate isn't supplying them. Japan, a far more insular country historically than the UK, is currently looking at ways of bringing in workers to settle, work and pay taxes to support their ageing population. We already have a supply of taxpayers from abroad who contribute far more than they take out; what's the problem with that? The latest data shows that Japan's economy has contracted for the two quarters in a row and that's recession country. [Link] GS may be bullish about Japanese equities - but the country still had back to back negative growth in successive quarters last year. My post referred to this year and next, not historically. The recovery has started. However, not that many Japanese people settle in the UK, and those that do are unlikely to be homeless. This is also true of Europe, where the recovery is now underway. There have been a number of homeless people arriving from Europe, mainly from poorer countries. Some were living rough in Park Lane, of all places, before they were moved on. But these numbers are relatively small compared to the homeless from other parts of the UK that live on the streets of London. Well we're still in February - so there's not much data on 2015 yet. Big business in Japan still cautious [Link]
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chris123

hove actually 01 Apr 15 7.24pm

Quote chris123 at 27 Feb 2015 8.57am

Quote crystal balls at 27 Feb 2015 8.38am

Quote chris123 at 26 Feb 2015 10.18pm

Quote crystal balls at 26 Feb 2015 10.04pm

Quote chris123 at 26 Feb 2015 9.54pm

Quote crystal balls at 26 Feb 2015 9.31pm

Quote Stuk at 26 Feb 2015 8.49pm

Quote nickgusset at 26 Feb 2015 8.40pm

Quote Helmet46 at 26 Feb 2015 8.37pm

Quote moylerg at 26 Feb 2015 8.21pm

Quote Helmet46 at 26 Feb 2015 8.17pm

It's poor. They're all sh1te. The previous lot didn't have a glowing record of results on many things. In other words dependent upon the stat you're looking for they've all got shocking records. Just pick a topic!

[Link]

One might even dare to add that with more than half of homeless people considered to be immigrants, then the current statistics are as a direct result of the previous government's appalling immigration record. Just saying.

Edit: sorry, just saw your kind of related post Becky

Edited by moylerg (26 Feb 2015 8.22pm)

Ouch. Are you suggesting that the wonderful Labour Party allowed so many unskilled people through our borders that the increase in homelessness could, in part, be down to their ridiculously flawed immigration policy?

[Link]

Net migration is 50000 higher this year than when the ConDems came to power, yet people still blame the Labour cunds...

Because the economy and outlook is better than compared to then.

And other parts of the world, even close to home, are still s***ty.

Actually, a number of investment experts are suggesting that Europe and Japanese economies are due for out performance this year and next, as both are now in the early stages of quantative easing, or stimulating the economy, a tactic already employed in the US and UK.

The immigration policy under both recent governments in the UK would have to be considered flawed by your measure Helmet, as both have presided over increased numbers. In Labour's defence, at least they never promised to reduce immigration and failed, unlike Cameron.

However, the idea that immigration to ageing nations is negative doesn't bare scrutiny. Countries such as ourselves, Italy, Germany and especially Japan need taxpayers to support increasing numbers of pensioners, and the birth rate isn't supplying them.

Japan, a far more insular country historically than the UK, is currently looking at ways of bringing in workers to settle, work and pay taxes to support their ageing population. We already have a supply of taxpayers from abroad who contribute far more than they take out; what's the problem with that?

The latest data shows that Japan's economy has contracted for the two quarters in a row and that's recession country.

[Link]

GS may be bullish about Japanese equities - but the country still had back to back negative growth in successive quarters last year.

My post referred to this year and next, not historically. The recovery has started. However, not that many Japanese people settle in the UK, and those that do are unlikely to be homeless. This is also true of Europe, where the recovery is now underway.

There have been a number of homeless people arriving from Europe, mainly from poorer countries. Some were living rough in Park Lane, of all places, before they were moved on. But these numbers are relatively small compared to the homeless from other parts of the UK that live on the streets of London.

Well we're still in February - so there's not much data on 2015 yet.

Big business in Japan still cautious

[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Apr 15 10.23am
Homelessness has nothing to do with the massive costs involved in renting or maintaining a mortgage "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 02 Apr 15 10.23am

Homelessness has nothing to do with the massive costs involved in renting or maintaining a mortgage

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stuk Top half 02 Apr 15 2.20pm
It's all about how you define it. Seasick Steve was homeless... "except homeless didn't exist back then" as he put it. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 02 Apr 15 2.20pm

It's all about how you define it. Seasick Steve was homeless... "except homeless didn't exist back then" as he put it.

Optimistic as ever

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DanH SW2 02 Apr 15 2.26pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Apr 2015 2.20pm It's all about how you define it. Seasick Steve was homeless... "except homeless didn't exist back then" as he put it. Hippy.
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DanH

SW2 02 Apr 15 2.26pm

Quote Stuk at 02 Apr 2015 2.20pm

It's all about how you define it. Seasick Steve was homeless... "except homeless didn't exist back then" as he put it.

Hippy.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Apr 15 3.14pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Apr 2015 2.20pm It's all about how you define it. Seasick Steve was homeless... "except homeless didn't exist back then" as he put it. Homeless should be defined as someone who has no place to live that is legally inhabitable under the definitions of law specificed for Landlords and Tennants acts. ie not a risk to health, reasonably maintained, access to heating, hot and cold water and in a decent state of repair, internally and externally. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 02 Apr 15 3.14pm

Quote Stuk at 02 Apr 2015 2.20pm

It's all about how you define it. Seasick Steve was homeless... "except homeless didn't exist back then" as he put it.

Homeless should be defined as someone who has no place to live that is legally inhabitable under the definitions of law specificed for Landlords and Tennants acts.

ie not a risk to health, reasonably maintained, access to heating, hot and cold water and in a decent state of repair, internally and externally.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stuk Top half 02 Apr 15 3.18pm
Quote DanH at 02 Apr 2015 2.26pm Quote Stuk at 02 Apr 2015 2.20pm It's all about how you define it. Seasick Steve was homeless... "except homeless didn't exist back then" as he put it. Hippy. And now he lives in one of the most expensive countries in Europe. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 02 Apr 15 3.18pm

Quote DanH at 02 Apr 2015 2.26pm

Quote Stuk at 02 Apr 2015 2.20pm

It's all about how you define it. Seasick Steve was homeless... "except homeless didn't exist back then" as he put it.

Hippy.

And now he lives in one of the most expensive countries in Europe.

Optimistic as ever

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Stuk Top half 02 Apr 15 3.25pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Apr 2015 3.14pm Quote Stuk at 02 Apr 2015 2.20pm It's all about how you define it. Seasick Steve was homeless... "except homeless didn't exist back then" as he put it. Homeless should be defined as someone who has no place to live that is legally inhabitable under the definitions of law specificed for Landlords and Tennants acts. ie not a risk to health, reasonably maintained, access to heating, hot and cold water and in a decent state of repair, internally and externally. If you are a tennant that is. Landlord and Tennants act doesn't apply unless you are one. You could choose to live in a tent if you wanted, which shouldn't make you homeless if you choose to do that or similar. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 02 Apr 15 3.25pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Apr 2015 3.14pm

Quote Stuk at 02 Apr 2015 2.20pm

It's all about how you define it. Seasick Steve was homeless... "except homeless didn't exist back then" as he put it.

Homeless should be defined as someone who has no place to live that is legally inhabitable under the definitions of law specificed for Landlords and Tennants acts.

ie not a risk to health, reasonably maintained, access to heating, hot and cold water and in a decent state of repair, internally and externally.

If you are a tennant that is. Landlord and Tennants act doesn't apply unless you are one.

You could choose to live in a tent if you wanted, which shouldn't make you homeless if you choose to do that or similar.

Optimistic as ever

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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 02 Apr 15 3.48pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 27 Feb 2015 11.11am Quote nickgusset at 26 Feb 2015 7.34pm [Link] up 50 percent under current government. Well done Dave and Nick. No......... well done Tony and Gordon! They started the open door immigration policy which has spiralled out of control and has led to foreigners sleeping rough on our streets, parks, underpasses etc. That statement says it all....it was Labour that opened the gates and let so many thousands of people in that have no intention of working but of begging bumming stealing robbing etc.... NOT all immigrants are worth their salt as is made out. They breed like rabbits and just want something for nothing. I know that some do work in our hospitals and others do earn a living BUT not a great percentage. This has bought on a big housing shortage and made our NHS weak at the knees...controlling immigration is the only way out in fact shut the gates for a while and sort out all the ones who should not be in our country and kick them out...back to where they came from and if they have no papers let them pick a country of their choice and send them there or let us choose the country for them. They are bleeding this country dry AND YOU are paying for it!!!! Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.
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susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 02 Apr 15 3.48pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 27 Feb 2015 11.11am

Quote nickgusset at 26 Feb 2015 7.34pm

[Link] up 50 percent under current government. Well done Dave and Nick.

No......... well done Tony and Gordon!

They started the open door immigration policy which has spiralled out of control and has led to foreigners sleeping rough on our streets, parks, underpasses etc.

That statement says it all....it was Labour that opened the gates and let so many thousands of people in that have no intention of working but of begging bumming stealing robbing etc.... NOT all immigrants are worth their salt as is made out. They breed like rabbits and just want something for nothing. I know that some do work in our hospitals and others do earn a living BUT not a great percentage. This has bought on a big housing shortage and made our NHS weak at the knees...controlling immigration is the only way out in fact shut the gates for a while and sort out all the ones who should not be in our country and kick them out...back to where they came from and if they have no papers let them pick a country of their choice and send them there or let us choose the country for them. They are bleeding this country dry AND YOU are paying for it!!!!

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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Superfly The sun always shines in Catford 02 Apr 15 3.59pm
When I have a stroke, I hope somebody takes away my keyboard Lend me a Tenor 31 May to 3 June 2017 John McIntosh Arts Centre London Oratory School SW6 1RX with Superfly in the chorus [Link]
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Superfly

The sun always shines in Catford 02 Apr 15 3.59pm

When I have a stroke, I hope somebody takes away my keyboard

Lend me a Tenor

31 May to 3 June 2017

John McIntosh Arts Centre
London Oratory School
SW6 1RX

with Superfly in the chorus
[Link]

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coulsdoneagle London 02 Apr 15 3.59pm
Quote serial thriller at 27 Feb 2015 12.49pm Quote becky at 26 Feb 2015 8.18pm "With over half of London's rough sleepers now being foreign nationals it is important that migrants who come to this country are able to support themselves so they do not become destitute" Well, that accounts for London's 50% increase then! It's an incredibly lazy and ignorant quote for a 'homeless minister' to come out with isn't it? I doubt that any developed nation in history has needed immigration to plug the shortage of high-paid secure jobs in their country. It's not like we have nationals with degree-level qualifications crawling over each other for the latest construction or cleaning jobs, but leaving the neurosurgeon and property developer jobs for the new wave of Bulgarians and Romanians. Immigration is predominantly needed because we have a load of poorly paid service and manufacturing jobs which are incredibly difficult to fill, mainly because people who want a job with a bit of dignity and security won't touch them with a bargepole. That obviously means that immigrants are looking for jobs which are insecure and low-paid, so will disproportionately be affected by issues such as homelessness which affect people at the bottom of the socio-economic pile. For a 'homeless minister' to blame IMMIGRANTS for not being able to support themselves is not only moving the blame away from who should be providing said support (the government) but also overlooking the fundamental economic reasoning for immigration. Bit like if we played Gayle up front and blamed him for not scoring but had brought back Wayne Andrews and Calvin Andrew on the wing to give him service. Agree with all of this.
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coulsdoneagle

London 02 Apr 15 3.59pm

Quote serial thriller at 27 Feb 2015 12.49pm

Quote becky at 26 Feb 2015 8.18pm

"With over half of London's rough sleepers now being foreign nationals it is important that migrants who come to this country are able to support themselves so they do not become destitute"

Well, that accounts for London's 50% increase then!

It's an incredibly lazy and ignorant quote for a 'homeless minister' to come out with isn't it?

Agree with all of this.

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