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ghosteagle 17 Feb 15 3.18pm | |
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Prohibition, still a stupid idea all these years later.
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Seth On a pale blue dot 17 Feb 15 3.23pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 1.17pm
Quote Seth at 17 Feb 2015 1.32am
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 12.51am
I could live with them legalizing all drugs....But as long as the state takes a position.
'focused on regulation, quality control'......Why do you think that regulating the distribution of drugs means that the black market won't undercut it? What makes you believe that we won't continue to have the same problem? All you are doing is driving down the price.....The racket still continues unless you make it practically free....Just because the official stuff is safer it doesn't mean that a significant number of people will continue to use either cheaper non regulated drugs or something more dangerous. 'Harm reduction'.....That also depends upon a definition....If you increase the number of users by legalising then you might be increasing the harm overall but just making it safer for those whose more committed drug takers. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2015 1.18pm)
"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" |
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Stirlingsays 17 Feb 15 3.28pm | |
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Quote Seth at 17 Feb 2015 3.23pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 1.17pm
Quote Seth at 17 Feb 2015 1.32am
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 12.51am
I could live with them legalizing all drugs....But as long as the state takes a position.
'focused on regulation, quality control'......Why do you think that regulating the distribution of drugs means that the black market won't undercut it? What makes you believe that we won't continue to have the same problem? All you are doing is driving down the price.....The racket still continues unless you make it practically free....Just because the official stuff is safer it doesn't mean that a significant number of people will continue to use either cheaper non regulated drugs or something more dangerous. 'Harm reduction'.....That also depends upon a definition....If you increase the number of users by legalising then you might be increasing the harm overall but just making it safer for those whose more committed drug takers. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2015 1.18pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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dannyb1 Chichester 17 Feb 15 3.44pm | |
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"Skunk cannabis" I'm sorry but this is how out of touch the media/poloticians/researchers are to the truth, Skunk was a breed of cannabis many years ago which overtime has been crossed with other variants of the cannabis family (indica, sative, ruderalis) to which makes up a small preportion of what is available to buy.
did not appear to be at increased risk, for instance. Murray said that, in line with this finding, he recommends hash to patients who are struggling to give up smoking altogether. Murray added that, since 2011 when the study ended, cannabis has generally been increasing in potency, This article was modified on 16 February 2015 to make clear that the study found skunk use was responsible for a quarter of new cases of psychosis in the population in south London that the researchers looked at – not across the country as a whole. Edited by dannyb1 (17 Feb 2015 3.47pm)
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jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Feb 15 10.59pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 3.28pm
Quote Seth at 17 Feb 2015 3.23pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 1.17pm
Quote Seth at 17 Feb 2015 1.32am
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 12.51am
I could live with them legalizing all drugs....But as long as the state takes a position.
'focused on regulation, quality control'......Why do you think that regulating the distribution of drugs means that the black market won't undercut it? What makes you believe that we won't continue to have the same problem? All you are doing is driving down the price.....The racket still continues unless you make it practically free....Just because the official stuff is safer it doesn't mean that a significant number of people will continue to use either cheaper non regulated drugs or something more dangerous. 'Harm reduction'.....That also depends upon a definition....If you increase the number of users by legalising then you might be increasing the harm overall but just making it safer for those whose more committed drug takers. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2015 1.18pm)
I don't generally think full legalisation is acceptable or responsible, some kind of limited licence availability, similar to alcohol or tabbacco makes more sense. Control of the market, control of the supply, and eradication of the criminal element.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Stirlingsays 17 Feb 15 11.12pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Feb 2015 10.59pm
Control of the market, control of the supply, and eradication of the criminal element.
You can't eradicate the criminal element....That's unrealistic.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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matt_himself Matataland 18 Feb 15 5.39am | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 11.12pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Feb 2015 10.59pm
Control of the market, control of the supply, and eradication of the criminal element.
You can't eradicate the criminal element....That's unrealistic. The hippies think they can create a utopia by legalising it. The nuances of how such a system would actually operate are lost on them.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Feb 15 9.40am | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 11.12pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Feb 2015 10.59pm
Control of the market, control of the supply, and eradication of the criminal element.
You can't eradicate the criminal element....That's unrealistic. Market Control - The production of drugs, recreational of all kind in the UK is controlled through license to produce for market. Under any system of production the capacity to produce is driven by the ability to produce in bulk, at low cost. Under the licence and laws of the production of alcohol the supply of bootleg illegally produced alcohol in the UK is largely non-existent - Simply because production on a sufficient scale to compete with legal production is not financially viable. Supply - Slightly harder to control, however, the capacity for the control of price, makes the possibility of competition non-existent. The price of even common recreational drugs is driven by the illegal market. Cannabis is a remarkably cheap drug to produce, and yet the retail price on a 1/8th is around twenty quid, simply because of the mark up, of around 500% that occurs in the supply model. The simple fact is that the illegal market simply couldn't compete with a legal one (exactly the same way it couldn't with prohibition). Organised crime gangs would simply be priced out of the production and supply, because they can't compete in production, distribution or supply. This applies to all recreational drugs, which when produced legally (for research and medical use) retail to the end supplier at 1/35th of the price of the black market, unadulterated). Simply put organised crime can't operate at that competition level, other than to sell very low quality product. That leaves plenty of room for revenue generation through taxation and profit. Criminal element - Essentially why would you buy from a criminal source, when you can obtain from a legal source for less and at better quality? You wouldn't. That wouldn't end crime, it would however mean that certain very lucrative avenues of crime were unavailable. Ending prohibition didn't end the American Mafia, but it did massively reduce the violence and how that crime impacted general society. Similarly, the same could be said of the UK. The drug market is worth a fortune to organised crime and it generates a huge amount of crime to firstly control it, and then secondly through the cost of drugs (ie of addicts to obtain drugs through shoplifting, burglary, prostution). A legal market could sell the same gram of heroin that costs 80 quid on the street, at profit, for the price of a packet of cigerettes, unadulterated. Meaning that an addict with a two gram a day habit, is having to find 12 quid, rather than 160 quid a day to maintain their habit. In order to obtain that 160 quid through crime, generally you'll need to commit at least 480 worth of crime. Where as finding 12 quid could be as simple as working a part time job, or at worst committing 36 pounds worth of crime.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Feb 15 9.46am | |
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Quote matt_himself at 18 Feb 2015 5.39am
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 11.12pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Feb 2015 10.59pm
Control of the market, control of the supply, and eradication of the criminal element.
You can't eradicate the criminal element....That's unrealistic. The hippies think they can create a utopia by legalising it. The nuances of how such a system would actually operate are lost on them. Only very stupid people talk about utopia. Systems of operation and outlets already exist, they're called pharmacies. And all of these drugs are currently produced under licence in the UK for research or medical use. Cocaine is an analogue of the drug Lidocanine which is used for local anaesthesia. Producers of lidocaine also produce synthetic cocaine for research and occasional medical use. Heroin is produced for market to the NHS as diamorphine one of the most commonly used painkillers in the british health system. Amphetamine - Currently amphetamines are produced for Research and medical use (Narcolepsy, ADHD and last resort anti-depressants). These are Dexedrine, benzodrine and methedrine. Ritilin, a amphetamine based drug is used in the treatement of ADHD. Cannabis, Esctasy and LSD are currently produced for research.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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ghosteagle 18 Feb 15 3.39pm | |
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Quote matt_himself at 18 Feb 2015 5.39am
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 11.12pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Feb 2015 10.59pm
Control of the market, control of the supply, and eradication of the criminal element.
You can't eradicate the criminal element....That's unrealistic. The hippies think they can create a utopia by legalising it. The nuances of how such a system would actually operate are lost on them.
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dannyb1 Chichester 18 Feb 15 3.53pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Feb 2015 9.40am
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 11.12pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 17 Feb 2015 10.59pm
Control of the market, control of the supply, and eradication of the criminal element.
You can't eradicate the criminal element....That's unrealistic. Market Control - The production of drugs, recreational of all kind in the UK is controlled through license to produce for market. Under any system of production the capacity to produce is driven by the ability to produce in bulk, at low cost. Under the licence and laws of the production of alcohol the supply of bootleg illegally produced alcohol in the UK is largely non-existent - Simply because production on a sufficient scale to compete with legal production is not financially viable. Supply - Slightly harder to control, however, the capacity for the control of price, makes the possibility of competition non-existent. The price of even common recreational drugs is driven by the illegal market. Cannabis is a remarkably cheap drug to produce, and yet the retail price on a 1/8th is around twenty quid, simply because of the mark up, of around 500% that occurs in the supply model. The simple fact is that the illegal market simply couldn't compete with a legal one (exactly the same way it couldn't with prohibition). Organised crime gangs would simply be priced out of the production and supply, because they can't compete in production, distribution or supply. This applies to all recreational drugs, which when produced legally (for research and medical use) retail to the end supplier at 1/35th of the price of the black market, unadulterated). Simply put organised crime can't operate at that competition level, other than to sell very low quality product. That leaves plenty of room for revenue generation through taxation and profit. Criminal element - Essentially why would you buy from a criminal source, when you can obtain from a legal source for less and at better quality? You wouldn't. That wouldn't end crime, it would however mean that certain very lucrative avenues of crime were unavailable. Ending prohibition didn't end the American Mafia, but it did massively reduce the violence and how that crime impacted general society. Similarly, the same could be said of the UK. The drug market is worth a fortune to organised crime and it generates a huge amount of crime to firstly control it, and then secondly through the cost of drugs (ie of addicts to obtain drugs through shoplifting, burglary, prostution). A legal market could sell the same gram of heroin that costs 80 quid on the street, at profit, for the price of a packet of cigerettes, unadulterated. Meaning that an addict with a two gram a day habit, is having to find 12 quid, rather than 160 quid a day to maintain their habit. In order to obtain that 160 quid through crime, generally you'll need to commit at least 480 worth of crime. Where as finding 12 quid could be as simple as working a part time job, or at worst committing 36 pounds worth of crime.
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dannyb1 Chichester 18 Feb 15 3.56pm | |
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I love the argument that it's mad hippies that smoke cannabis, you would be surprised and shocked at the level in society of a cannabis user. (doctors, police, lawyers)
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