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Stirlingsays 10 May 15 11.14am
Quote susmik at 10 May 2015 11.00am I agree wholeheartedly with that. Nick might fight on the other side of politics to many of us on here but that is his prerogative, BUT to get a yellow for calling someone a very mediocre word like he did after all the sh1te he gets thrown at him is quite laughable. I think he should have the yellow taken off immediately he just does not deserve it in my honest opinion.... Whoever reported him should ask for the yellow to be rescinded. It would be the honourable thing to do. The mods have to be fair and go by Hol rules but while Nick is nearly always wrong. He's no trouble maker and a needed debater. The battle of ideas needs two sides. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 May 15 11.14am

Quote susmik at 10 May 2015 11.00am

I agree wholeheartedly with that. Nick might fight on the other side of politics to many of us on here but that is his prerogative, BUT to get a yellow for calling someone a very mediocre word like he did after all the sh1te he gets thrown at him is quite laughable. I think he should have the yellow taken off immediately he just does not deserve it in my honest opinion....

Whoever reported him should ask for the yellow to be rescinded.

It would be the honourable thing to do.
The mods have to be fair and go by Hol rules but while Nick is nearly always wrong. He's no trouble maker and a needed debater.

The battle of ideas needs two sides.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 10 May 15 11.18am
Quote legaleagle at 10 May 2015 11.04am and equally UKIP is not without people who do appear to be against immigrants from other cultures,seemingly believing their presence to "undermine" our "traditional British culture"...which doesn't mean everyone who voted for UKIP takes that view... Edited by legaleagle (10 May 2015 11.04am) There are as many different reasons people voted Ukip as there are reasons people voted Labour or Tory. Each person is a shade unto themselves. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 May 15 11.18am

Quote legaleagle at 10 May 2015 11.04am

and equally UKIP is not without people who do appear to be against immigrants from other cultures,seemingly believing their presence to "undermine" our "traditional British culture"...which doesn't mean everyone who voted for UKIP takes that view...

Edited by legaleagle (10 May 2015 11.04am)

There are as many different reasons people voted Ukip as there are reasons people voted Labour or Tory.

Each person is a shade unto themselves.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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legaleagle 10 May 15 11.30am
50 shades of grey even? Edited by legaleagle (10 May 2015 11.31am)
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legaleagle

10 May 15 11.30am

50 shades of grey even?

Edited by legaleagle (10 May 2015 11.31am)

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Stirlingsays 10 May 15 11.38am
Quote legaleagle at 10 May 2015 11.30am 50 shades of grey even? Edited by legaleagle (10 May 2015 11.31am) I've often wondered why we don't have a party campaigning on increasing the amount of sex voters get with attractive party members. Sounds like a sure way of getting into power to me. I can even think of a tagline. 'Vote for us....And we will blow you away'. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 May 15 11.38am

Quote legaleagle at 10 May 2015 11.30am

50 shades of grey even?

Edited by legaleagle (10 May 2015 11.31am)

I've often wondered why we don't have a party campaigning on increasing the amount of sex voters get with attractive party members.

Sounds like a sure way of getting into power to me. I can even think of a tagline.

'Vote for us....And we will blow you away'.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Mapletree Croydon 10 May 15 11.46am
Quote nickgusset at 09 May 2015 9.27am Quote Stirlingsays at 09 May 2015 9.23am Anyway Nick....What on earth are you doing with a yellow card? Opinion opponent or not we can't be having our resident lefties kicked out of Hol. I used the t word What, twit? Oh no, now I have done it.
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Mapletree

Croydon 10 May 15 11.46am

Quote nickgusset at 09 May 2015 9.27am

Quote Stirlingsays at 09 May 2015 9.23am

Anyway Nick....What on earth are you doing with a yellow card?

Opinion opponent or not we can't be having our resident lefties kicked out of Hol.

I used the t word

What, twit? Oh no, now I have done it.

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derben 10 May 15 11.48am
Quote Mapletree at 10 May 2015 11.46am Quote nickgusset at 09 May 2015 9.27am Quote Stirlingsays at 09 May 2015 9.23am Anyway Nick....What on earth are you doing with a yellow card? Opinion opponent or not we can't be having our resident lefties kicked out of Hol. I used the t word What, twit? Oh no, now I have done it. It was probably 'Tory', preceded by an adjective, or followed by a noun. Edited by derben (10 May 2015 11.49am)
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derben

10 May 15 11.48am

Quote Mapletree at 10 May 2015 11.46am

Quote nickgusset at 09 May 2015 9.27am

Quote Stirlingsays at 09 May 2015 9.23am

Anyway Nick....What on earth are you doing with a yellow card?

Opinion opponent or not we can't be having our resident lefties kicked out of Hol.

I used the t word

What, twit? Oh no, now I have done it.

It was probably 'Tory', preceded by an adjective, or followed by a noun.

Edited by derben (10 May 2015 11.49am)

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SwalecliffeEagle Swalecliffe 10 May 15 2.48pm
Quote rob1969 at 09 May 2015 9.58pm Believe UKIP peaked too early - as have other 'new' parties in the past (SDP) - for the general election and by the next - in 2020 - we should have had the promised EU referendum and will either be on our way out - or staying in long term. They will be irrelevant by then. Can you elaborate please? The way I see it there's no way we'll end up leaving the EU, and that will only cause a great amount of disaffection which will benefit UKIP. Those who vote to stay in won't have done so due to a passionate belief in the EU but instead through fear of the unknown. Conversely, those who vote to leave will feel even more strongly when their voice is again rejected. All I'm saying is that I don't think the referendum will, by default, render UKIP 'irrelevant'. They do, however, face becoming irrelevant if they continue to talk about the EU and immigration without informing the public of broader policies, namely anti-austerity measures. For me, anti-austerity sentiment will be all the stronger in 2020 and it's something that UKIP need to make their main line of attack in the next election. Everyone knows they're anti-uncontrolled immigration and anti-EU, they won't lose that support base if they advance other lines of attack. In short, they need to appeal to people as being the 'nice Tories' if they are to stand a chance.
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SwalecliffeEagle

Swalecliffe 10 May 15 2.48pm

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Quote rob1969 at 09 May 2015 9.58pm

Believe UKIP peaked too early - as have other 'new' parties in the past (SDP) - for the general election and by the next - in 2020 - we should have had the promised EU referendum and will either be on our way out - or staying in long term. They will be irrelevant by then.

Can you elaborate please? The way I see it there's no way we'll end up leaving the EU, and that will only cause a great amount of disaffection which will benefit UKIP. Those who vote to stay in won't have done so due to a passionate belief in the EU but instead through fear of the unknown. Conversely, those who vote to leave will feel even more strongly when their voice is again rejected. All I'm saying is that I don't think the referendum will, by default, render UKIP 'irrelevant'.

They do, however, face becoming irrelevant if they continue to talk about the EU and immigration without informing the public of broader policies, namely anti-austerity measures. For me, anti-austerity sentiment will be all the stronger in 2020 and it's something that UKIP need to make their main line of attack in the next election. Everyone knows they're anti-uncontrolled immigration and anti-EU, they won't lose that support base if they advance other lines of attack. In short, they need to appeal to people as being the 'nice Tories' if they are to stand a chance.

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imbored UK 10 May 15 5.03pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 10 May 2015 9.44am Quote imbored at 09 May 2015 10.08pm Quote rob1969 at 09 May 2015 9.58pm Believe UKIP peaked too early - as have other 'new' parties in the past (SDP) - for the general election and by the next - in 2020 - we should have had the promised EU referendum and will either be on our way out - or staying in long term. They will be irrelevant by then. What stands out for me, and seems to pass some by, is that it wasn't primarily 'the left' that tried to do them in. From reading the Sun and Daily Mail it was apparent that there was a relentless attack on both UKIP and Labour, as they were both seen as a threat to the Tories. Labour on account that they could get into government and UKIP based on the thought that they might 'split the Tory vote'. A point Nigel himself addressed. Papers aren't faced with the same scrutiny as broadcasters, hence how The Sun's first ten+ pages were relentlessly anti Labour and to a lesser extent anti UKIP the last couple of days before voting.. Edited by imbored (09 May 2015 10.16pm) Miliband treated Ukip in the proper manner as far as I saw. He was polite but pointed out where he differed. However, certain 'left' wing commentators on here or indeed.....A fair few teachers at work mainly implied that voting Ukip was racist and anti immigrant. Ukip's policy was just to go back to having controls of our own borders.....back to a time before the EU took them over......And that meant you were a racist and anti immigrant. It's the old reductionist approach. It really sickened me and still does. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 May 2015 9.48am) It's true that anti UKIP sentiment got a bit out of control on here and elsewhere. In terms of getting hammered by those with real influence in the media, I think both Labour and UKIP got it in the neck. The Tories didn't come under as much scrutiny. I can only assume that's because in their own way both parties were a threat to the status quo, and I don't mean Francis Rossi and Rick Parfitt!
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imbored

UK 10 May 15 5.03pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 10 May 2015 9.44am

Quote imbored at 09 May 2015 10.08pm

Quote rob1969 at 09 May 2015 9.58pm

What stands out for me, and seems to pass some by, is that it wasn't primarily 'the left' that tried to do them in. From reading the Sun and Daily Mail it was apparent that there was a relentless attack on both UKIP and Labour, as they were both seen as a threat to the Tories. Labour on account that they could get into government and UKIP based on the thought that they might 'split the Tory vote'. A point Nigel himself addressed.

Papers aren't faced with the same scrutiny as broadcasters, hence how The Sun's first ten+ pages were relentlessly anti Labour and to a lesser extent anti UKIP the last couple of days before voting..

Edited by imbored (09 May 2015 10.16pm)

Miliband treated Ukip in the proper manner as far as I saw. He was polite but pointed out where he differed.

However, certain 'left' wing commentators on here or indeed.....A fair few teachers at work mainly implied that voting Ukip was racist and anti immigrant.

Ukip's policy was just to go back to having controls of our own borders.....back to a time before the EU took them over......And that meant you were a racist and anti immigrant.

It's the old reductionist approach.

It really sickened me and still does.

Edited by Stirlingsays (10 May 2015 9.48am)

It's true that anti UKIP sentiment got a bit out of control on here and elsewhere. In terms of getting hammered by those with real influence in the media, I think both Labour and UKIP got it in the neck. The Tories didn't come under as much scrutiny. I can only assume that's because in their own way both parties were a threat to the status quo, and I don't mean Francis Rossi and Rick Parfitt!

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 10 May 15 5.35pm
The name "UK Independence Party" says it all ! Their whole Raison D'Etre is for Britain to leave the UK and the controlled immigration which follows on account of not having to adhere to open borders. IF the referendum delivers an OUT verdict and immigration is controlled as they see it, what else have UKIP got ?
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 10 May 15 5.35pm

The name "UK Independence Party" says it all ! Their whole Raison D'Etre is for Britain to leave the UK and the controlled immigration which follows on account of not having to adhere to open borders.

IF the referendum delivers an OUT verdict and immigration is controlled as they see it, what else have UKIP got ?

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imbored UK 10 May 15 5.43pm
Quote Willo at 10 May 2015 5.35pm The name "UK Independence Party" says it all ! Their whole Raison D'Etre is for Britain to leave the UK and the controlled immigration which follows on account of not having to adhere to open borders. IF the referendum delivers an OUT verdict and immigration is controlled as they see it, what else have UKIP got ? I would likely vote to stay in the EU, but for those with a different view, if UKIP helped to usher in a change and as result ceased to exist, that wouldn't invalidate their actions in the present. A party should exist to reflect the will of the people rather than gain and remain in power. Edited by imbored (10 May 2015 5.44pm)
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imbored

UK 10 May 15 5.43pm

Quote Willo at 10 May 2015 5.35pm

IF the referendum delivers an OUT verdict and immigration is controlled as they see it, what else have UKIP got ?

I would likely vote to stay in the EU, but for those with a different view, if UKIP helped to usher in a change and as result ceased to exist, that wouldn't invalidate their actions in the present. A party should exist to reflect the will of the people rather than gain and remain in power.

Edited by imbored (10 May 2015 5.44pm)

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Stirlingsays 10 May 15 7.13pm
Quote Willo at 10 May 2015 5.35pm The name "UK Independence Party" says it all ! Their whole Raison D'Etre is for Britain to leave the UK and the controlled immigration which follows on account of not having to adhere to open borders. IF the referendum delivers an OUT verdict and immigration is controlled as they see it, what else have UKIP got ? Nothing much....And that's ok. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 May 15 7.13pm

Quote Willo at 10 May 2015 5.35pm

IF the referendum delivers an OUT verdict and immigration is controlled as they see it, what else have UKIP got ?

Nothing much....And that's ok.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 10 May 15 7.15pm
Quote imbored at 10 May 2015 5.03pm It's true that anti UKIP sentiment got a bit out of control on here and elsewhere. In terms of getting hammered by those with real influence in the media, I think both Labour and UKIP got it in the neck. The Tories didn't come under as much scrutiny. I can only assume that's because in their own way both parties were a threat to the status quo, and I don't mean Francis Rossi and Rick Parfitt! I agree. Now I'd never considered the Quo to be apart of the Illuminati.....But now that you mention it. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 May 15 7.15pm

Quote imbored at 10 May 2015 5.03pm

I agree.

Now I'd never considered the Quo to be apart of the Illuminati.....But now that you mention it.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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