Why should an opposition party want to engage in a tactical voting alliance? Would they even be 'Labour' anymore? Its one of those illusions of British politics that seems to operate almost as a fantasy.

The Lib Dems traditionally come third, and by some margin, in this seat. It was fought on the dynamics that govern mid-term, and after multiple periods of a single party ruling, by-elections.

Yes, a real bloody nose for the Tories and Johnson in particular. Absolutely no questions around that. But in the greater scheme of things, not necessarily a game-changer in how the rest of our political system functions.

If Labour had won then I suspect the Torys would be planning for Johnson's immediate removal ASAP. But as it is, then I suspect they will grumble and make noises but Johnson, for now, ain't going anywhere.

And who would honestly want to take over now? We going into unknown territory here with this latest Covid nightmare and with local elections in May, any serious player would want to emerge after that as the great white/brown/black hope because everything points to it not being a great night for the Tories in May 2022 because that's how these things go anyway.

If you are a genuine contender for the top job then making your move now is not a wise move. There are numerous snakes ahead of you on the board, with very, very few ladders and the grim reality that the dice are well and truly Covid loaded.

Johnson has 5 months to save his job. And define his legacy. Hubris is the destroyer of Empire and if he is anything approaching the Classicist he proclaims himself, then he will have to face up to that within the next 72 hours and start acting accordingly.

Edited by Matov (17 Dec 2021 9.28am)

Edited by Matov (17 Dec 2021 9.29am)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Its also a hiding for Starmer, deservedly, and his policy of non-opposition.

Voters see him as an establishment figure, a perpetuation of a tory government nothing would change.

He can't get elected without minority parties support but his head is in the sand.

Bit of a stretch here Steeleye.

This was a typical mid term by election defeat. I doubt the voters were thinking about the EU and even the migrant boats. This was a straight forward bloody nose for a government from a very pissed off public, it happens.

Matov is right Boris is not down and out just yet, besides the Tory backstabbers don't fancy taking over whilst the pandemic still rages. They will oust him in sometime later next year when things have calmed down.

*Assumming the voters were thinking about migrants they might have voted against the government for the failure to stop them coming. So a vote against Boris not for the Lib Dems. However I prefer my first comment this was about sleaze and rule breaking.

Edited by Badger11 (17 Dec 2021 10.39am)

One more point

So you seriously think this vote was a plea for rejoining the EU and a Lib Dem government?

Haven't you seen these protest votes before Steely?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Reading the various, fairly predictable, comments of voters who switched, they were all unhappy with the government, and local issues which they blame on the government. Much of it unreasonably, of course, because the pandemic wasn't their fault, but their behaviour is.

When it was also their behaviour that resulted in Brexit, joining up the dots may not yet have been done, but it will be. Come the next GE, with the financial legacy of the pandemic around our necks and the Brexit mess making it worse, don't be surprised to see those dots not just joined up but forming a clear picture of discontent and another way forward.

It does though demand either a new direction from the Tories, or a re-organised opposition. Neither of which appear very likely at present.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I think that's basically right.

Often those who are anti EU are painted as anti Europe when that's a lazy connection. Thatcher for example, started out as very much for the EU until she realised that the project was destined to essentially be anti most of her ideas.

I think the EU could have worked far better if it had been far looser.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Dec 2021 11.15am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)