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Jacob Rees-Mogg
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 chris123  hove actually 06 Sep 17 10.33pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Catholic eh? So using the tenuous strategy of an h, I'm going to assume he is an IRA sympathiser. You know Catholic - bit like the Pope.
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| Bert the Head Epsom 06 Sep 17 10.36pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
There's no blind eye....there's acceptance of reality. European multiculturalisic attitudes has enabled those deaths far more than anything the house of Saud could do. Too late now....your ideology has fecked up the terror situation in this country for....well, I don't see an end in sight.....thanks. The support for Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan in the 1980s when it suited us and then actively shipping them to fight in Bosnia has more to do with it than European multiculturalisic attitudes. Many people who opposed the Iraq said that it would make terrorism much worse and us less safe. Its difficult to argue against that now. The Foreign policy of the US and the UK as their little lap dog couldn't have been designed any better if its real aim was to increase Islamic terrorism.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 06 Sep 17 10.46pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
He said - I am a Catholic and I take the teaching of the Catholic Church seriously - so whether you agree or disgree seems clear where he's coming from. And then there was Tony Blair. For years worshipping in Catholic Churches during his PM and 'anti-life' policy years before converting once he stepped down.
COYP |
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| Stirlingsays 06 Sep 17 10.47pm |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
The support for Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan in the 1980s when it suited us and then actively shipping them to fight in Bosnia has more to do with it than European multiculturalisic attitudes. Many people who opposed the Iraq said that it would make terrorism much worse and us less safe. Its difficult to argue against that now. The Foreign policy of the US and the UK as their little lap dog couldn't have been designed any better if its real aim was to increase Islamic terrorism.
You have never written a post on here that was anything other than nonsense. This post is no different. Where is the Islamic terrorism in Poland? They were in Iraq. Where is the Islamic terrorism in Japan? They were there too. There are pretty strong reasons why these countries don't have bodies of children lying on their streets. Neither of these counties have 600 active M15 investigations ongoing with over 20, 000 on watch lists. It's people with belief systems like yours which have enabled the extremism to exist here. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Sep 2017 10.57pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Sep 17 11.14pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You have never written a post on here that was anything other than nonsense. This post is no different. Where is the Islamic terrorism in Poland? They were in Iraq. Where is the Islamic terrorism in Japan? They were there too. There are pretty strong reasons why these countries don't have bodies of children lying on their streets. Neither of these counties have 600 active M15 investigations ongoing with over 20, 000 on watch lists. It's people with belief systems like yours which have enabled the extremism to exist here. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Sep 2017 10.57pm) One could argue that it is your belief system that contributes to their radicalisation. You with your anti Muslim rhetoric are culpable. As for your term progressives, why use something positive as a derogatory term. If it wasn't for progressives, you'd still be eating turnip stew every night.
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| Stirlingsays 07 Sep 17 1.33am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
One could argue that it is your belief system that contributes to their radicalisation. You with your anti Muslim rhetoric are culpable. As for your term progressives, why use something positive as a derogatory term. If it wasn't for progressives, you'd still be eating turnip stew every night.
Bulls***. I'm also anti progressive......Where are the progressive suicide attacks Nick? So this is your logic is it?....You think being against extremists is wrong because it increases their radicalization? So Nick.....why do you support those who are aggressive towards the far right? A member of their group murdered someone and you support aggression against their whole group. Nick....why are you such a hypocrite? I'm not against peaceful Muslims. Those who are happy to live here and not support changing others have no issues from me. I'm not interested in removing Islam from the country either. I'm a supporter of reform and deportation of those whom the security services and a judge deem dangerous. I blame progressivism for fighting so hard for multiculturalism in this country that those within these groups who didn't want to integrate didn't feel they had too. You provided that space. Your ideology added to this problem.....which is now a massive one and only set to grow larger.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Sep 17 10.55am |
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I'm not anti-progressive but it does concern me that people seem to think that 'progress' is inevitable or absolute in its own right. I think a lot of the arguments presented by progressives are good, but there is a tendency to see it now as an ideology, rather than a philosophical engagement in what is right from a rational perspective. Similar to how liberalism has become increasingly dogmatic, progressive politics seem to have moved from being a reasonable argument, to being rhetoric - which isn't progressive. There are many reasons why gay marriage should be legal, but none of them are based in calling the oppositional points homophobic. Progressive movements succeeded, not because they could drown out the voice of opposition, but because they could drive trucks through the holes in their rationale and rip their logic out to the point that all the opposition had were largely indefinable positions. Progress isn't 'the natural state of the world' its something achieved at cost, effort and convincing people why you're right, not why they're wrong, and arguably getting them to move forward a few steps (you'll never convince someone whos objection to gay marriage is on religious grounds, but you can get them to see that there is a difference between religious and secular marriage, and that providing gay marriage is limited to secular and religions that accept gay marriage, then its a different argument). Progressive is about changing the argument to reach a common ground. That's how it works really. You're looking not to convince someone they're stupid or wrong, but to change the point of perspective to see common ground. Hiding behind labels isn't progress, its regressive, its what people who can't defend their position have to do.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Sep 17 10.58am |
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I don't really have a problem with people being national socialist or fascist, provided they're not breaking the law. Free world, I don't like it, but f**k it, you're free to believe in what you want. I do have issues with the political parties that 'co-opt' that far right, specifically because they directly target specific groups of legal UK citizens with a view to intimidation, and tend to justify and defend violence committed by their affiliates.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 07 Sep 17 10.59am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I'm not anti-progressive but it does concern me that people seem to think that 'progress' is inevitable or absolute in its own right. I think a lot of the arguments presented by progressives are good, but there is a tendency to see it now as an ideology, rather than a philosophical engagement in what is right from a rational perspective. Similar to how liberalism has become increasingly dogmatic, progressive politics seem to have moved from being a reasonable argument, to being rhetoric - which isn't progressive. There are many reasons why gay marriage should be legal, but none of them are based in calling the oppositional points homophobic. Progressive movements succeeded, not because they could drown out the voice of opposition, but because they could drive trucks through the holes in their rationale and rip their logic out to the point that all the opposition had were largely indefinable positions. Progress isn't 'the natural state of the world' its something achieved at cost, effort and convincing people why you're right, not why they're wrong, and arguably getting them to move forward a few steps (you'll never convince someone whos objection to gay marriage is on religious grounds, but you can get them to see that there is a difference between religious and secular marriage, and that providing gay marriage is limited to secular and religions that accept gay marriage, then its a different argument). Progressive is about changing the argument to reach a common ground. That's how it works really. You're looking not to convince someone they're stupid or wrong, but to change the point of perspective to see common ground. Hiding behind labels isn't progress, its regressive, its what people who can't defend their position have to do. Good post - agree with most of it, although there is still a hint that 'progressives' always know best. Edited by hedgehog50 (07 Sep 2017 10.59am)
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Stirlingsays 07 Sep 17 11.05am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I don't really have a problem with people being national socialist or fascist, provided they're not breaking the law. Free world, I don't like it, but f**k it, you're free to believe in what you want. I do have issues with the political parties that 'co-opt' that far right, specifically because they directly target specific groups of legal UK citizens with a view to intimidation, and tend to justify and defend violence committed by their affiliates. All political debate should be free from the threats of violence. It just doesn't work....well, actually, as the IRA showed perhaps it does to an extent but in my view it must not be allowed to work. Violence is the physical manifestation of hate and is synonymous with the failure of reason.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 07 Sep 17 12.30pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
One could argue that it is your belief system that contributes to their radicalisation. You with your anti Muslim rhetoric are culpable. Utter self serving bulls***.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 07 Sep 17 12.38pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Good post - agree with most of it, although there is still a hint that 'progressives' always know best. Edited by hedgehog50 (07 Sep 2017 10.59am) That was a fairly good assessment from someone who leans left even so. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (07 Sep 2017 12.39pm)
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