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Hoof Hearted 08 May 14 6.54pm
Quote DanH at 08 May 2014 6.04pm Quote Penge Eagle at 08 May 2014 5.16pm Quote The White Horse at 08 May 2014 2.05am Quote Penge Eagle at 07 May 2014 11.06pm I shall be voting UKIP and not as a protest vote either. Will you also be doing so in the local elections? Presumably you've got Labour councillors who can only be beaten by Tories if you live in Penge... Yep, definitely. My ward is Labour but I do think that UKIP could take them on and win in the area. Will be interesting to find out... however, UKIP have me and my family's votes. They resonate with the 'man on the street'. Which street is this? I spend a fair bit of time on streets and they don't resonate with me one iota. Your career as a rent boy is not in dispute Dan.
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Hoof Hearted 08 May 14 6.54pm

Quote DanH at 08 May 2014 6.04pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 08 May 2014 5.16pm

Quote The White Horse at 08 May 2014 2.05am

Quote Penge Eagle at 07 May 2014 11.06pm

I shall be voting UKIP and not as a protest vote either.

Will you also be doing so in the local elections? Presumably you've got Labour councillors who can only be beaten by Tories if you live in Penge...

Yep, definitely. My ward is Labour but I do think that UKIP could take them on and win in the area. Will be interesting to find out... however, UKIP have me and my family's votes. They resonate with the 'man on the street'.

Which street is this? I spend a fair bit of time on streets and they don't resonate with me one iota.

Your career as a rent boy is not in dispute Dan.

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Johnny Eagles berlin 08 May 14 7.09pm
Quote Willo at 08 May 2014 6.31pm Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 6.22pm What's wrong with being in a parliament you despise? Irish Home Rulers and Scottish Nationalists have done it. I am not swayed away from my thinking on the basis that the Irish Home Rulers and Scottish Nationalists are in their respective Parliaments. At the end of the day UKIP will never form a Government and are in NO position to offer the country a referendum.They want OUT and it is only the Conservatives who will offer the electorate an opportunity to make that decision.And of course UKIP have played NO part whatsoever in the recovery ! I can only re-iterate that UKIP can spout all populist things knowing full well they will never have to fulfil them. Anyway, enough of my 'Soapbox' - I am out tonight canvassing on behalf of the Conservative Party ! Edited by Willo (08 May 2014 6.34pm) Sorry, Willo, but this response is not good enough. You need to explain why it is bad thing to campaign against a government by participating in the parliament which holds it to account. The alternatives are resorting to violence or submitting to tyranny. By the way, the "Home Rulers" didn't have their own parliament, which is the WHOLE POINT. They achieved their aims through - for the most part - legitimate democratic means. UKIP is doing the same. It is entirely proper to sit as MEPs and campaign against EU membership. The rest of your post says we should vote for the establishment because.... well, because it's the establishment! Don't vote for UKIP because they are too small to form a government is just not good enough. I accept the point about populism (far be it from Cameron and Osborne ever to resort to populism, eh!?) but you need to come up with better arguments why people should vote Tory instead of UKIP. And by arguments, I don't mean just writing "hogwash" And if you truly believe the crap fed to you by Cameron on the referendum then there really is no hope for you. ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 08 May 14 7.09pm

Quote Willo at 08 May 2014 6.31pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 6.22pm

What's wrong with being in a parliament you despise?

Irish Home Rulers and Scottish Nationalists have done it.

I am not swayed away from my thinking on the basis that the Irish Home Rulers and Scottish Nationalists are in their respective Parliaments.

At the end of the day UKIP will never form a Government and are in NO position to offer the country a referendum.They want OUT and it is only the Conservatives who will offer the electorate an opportunity to make that decision.And of course UKIP have played NO part whatsoever in the recovery ! I can only re-iterate that UKIP can spout all populist things knowing full well they will never have to fulfil them.

Anyway, enough of my 'Soapbox' - I am out tonight canvassing on behalf of the Conservative Party !

Edited by Willo (08 May 2014 6.34pm)

Sorry, Willo, but this response is not good enough.

You need to explain *why* it is bad thing to campaign against a government by participating in the parliament which holds it to account.

The alternatives are resorting to violence or submitting to tyranny.

By the way, the "Home Rulers" didn't have their own parliament, which is the WHOLE POINT. They achieved their aims through - for the most part - legitimate democratic means. UKIP is doing the same. It is entirely proper to sit as MEPs and campaign against EU membership.

The rest of your post says we should vote for the establishment because.... well, because it's the establishment!

Don't vote for UKIP because they are too small to form a government is just not good enough.

I accept the point about populism (far be it from Cameron and Osborne ever to resort to populism, eh!?) but you need to come up with better arguments why people should vote Tory instead of UKIP. And by arguments, I don't mean just writing "hogwash"

And if you truly believe the crap fed to you by Cameron on the referendum then there really is no hope for you.

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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Johnny Eagles berlin 08 May 14 7.13pm
Quote nickgusset at 08 May 2014 6.29pm Johnny Eagles in Thatcher was a smug right on metropolitan c*** shocker! Edited by nickgusset (08 May 2014 6.30pm) 1. By 1979 most of the damage was done. Thatcher didn't do enough to reverse it. 2. Thatcher did plenty wrong herself, not least in terms of centralising power. 3. Thatcher was just as in hock to the party machines as any other leader, albeit she had a hell of a lot more character and backbone than any of the current lot. I'm pleased this thread has finally become about Thatcher. About time! ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 08 May 14 7.13pm

Quote nickgusset at 08 May 2014 6.29pm

Johnny Eagles in Thatcher was a smug right on metropolitan c*** shocker!

Edited by nickgusset (08 May 2014 6.30pm)

1. By 1979 most of the damage was done. Thatcher didn't do enough to reverse it.

2. Thatcher did plenty wrong herself, not least in terms of centralising power.

3. Thatcher was just as in hock to the party machines as any other leader, albeit she had a hell of a lot more character and backbone than any of the current lot.

I'm pleased this thread has finally become about Thatcher. About time!

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 08 May 14 7.26pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 7.09pm Sorry, Willo, but this response is not good enough. You need to explain why it is bad thing to campaign against a government by participating in the parliament which holds it to account. The alternatives are resorting to violence or submitting to tyranny. By the way, the "Home Rulers" didn't have their own parliament, which is the WHOLE POINT. They achieved their aims through - for the most part - legitimate democratic means. UKIP is doing the same. It is entirely proper to sit as MEPs and campaign against EU membership. The rest of your post says we should vote for the establishment because.... well, because it's the establishment! Don't vote for UKIP because they are too small to form a government is just not good enough. I accept the point about populism (far be it from Cameron and Osborne ever to resort to populism, eh!?) but you need to come up with better arguments why people should vote Tory instead of UKIP. And by arguments, I don't mean just writing "hogwash" And if you truly believe the crap fed to you by Cameron on the referendum then there really is no hope for you. 1. UKIP are not campaigning against a Government ! How do they think that having more MEPs is consistent with the fact that they want the UK to withdraw from the EU ? ! Do they really think they could influence any withdrawal by their extra MEPs or indeed by any means ? 2. Regards UKIP being "Too small" - All I was saying is that they can promise the earth and play to the electorate safe in the knowledge that they will never have to fulfil any of their promises.But of course we are in a democracy and the electorate are free to vote for who they want. 3. Are you really suggesting that Cameron is lying about a referendum ? The Conservative Party are the only party who have said they will offer an in/out referendum so the electorate will have their say.So if you want the UK OUT of the EU vote Conservative as you will have a chance to influence the vote.UKIP cannot offer any such referendum.They are "Hogwash" LOL ! Anyway I really must go, off my "Soapbox" now - I am just out to canvass on behalf of the Conservative Party !!!! Edited by Willo (08 May 2014 7.29pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 08 May 14 7.26pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 7.09pm

Sorry, Willo, but this response is not good enough.

You need to explain *why* it is bad thing to campaign against a government by participating in the parliament which holds it to account.

The alternatives are resorting to violence or submitting to tyranny.

The rest of your post says we should vote for the establishment because.... well, because it's the establishment!

Don't vote for UKIP because they are too small to form a government is just not good enough.

And if you truly believe the crap fed to you by Cameron on the referendum then there really is no hope for you.

1. UKIP are not campaigning against a Government ! How do they think that having more MEPs is consistent with the fact that they want the UK to withdraw from the EU ? ! Do they really think they could influence any withdrawal by their extra MEPs or indeed by any means ?

2. Regards UKIP being "Too small" - All I was saying is that they can promise the earth and play to the electorate safe in the knowledge that they will never have to fulfil any of their promises.But of course we are in a democracy and the electorate are free to vote for who they want.

3. Are you really suggesting that Cameron is lying about a referendum ? The Conservative Party are the only party who have said they will offer an in/out referendum so the electorate will have their say.So if you want the UK OUT of the EU vote Conservative as you will have a chance to influence the vote.UKIP cannot offer any such referendum.They are "Hogwash" LOL !

Anyway I really must go, off my "Soapbox" now - I am just out to canvass on behalf of the Conservative Party !!!!

Edited by Willo (08 May 2014 7.29pm)

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Johnny Eagles berlin 08 May 14 7.46pm
Quote Willo at 08 May 2014 7.26pm Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 7.09pm Sorry, Willo, but this response is not good enough. You need to explain why it is bad thing to campaign against a government by participating in the parliament which holds it to account. The alternatives are resorting to violence or submitting to tyranny. By the way, the "Home Rulers" didn't have their own parliament, which is the WHOLE POINT. They achieved their aims through - for the most part - legitimate democratic means. UKIP is doing the same. It is entirely proper to sit as MEPs and campaign against EU membership. The rest of your post says we should vote for the establishment because.... well, because it's the establishment! Don't vote for UKIP because they are too small to form a government is just not good enough. I accept the point about populism (far be it from Cameron and Osborne ever to resort to populism, eh!?) but you need to come up with better arguments why people should vote Tory instead of UKIP. And by arguments, I don't mean just writing "hogwash" And if you truly believe the crap fed to you by Cameron on the referendum then there really is no hope for you. 1. UKIP are not campaigning against a Government ! How do they think that having more MEPs is consistent with the fact that they want the UK to withdraw from the EU ? ! Do they really think they could influence any withdrawal by their extra MEPs or indeed by any means ? 2. Regards UKIP being "Too small" - All I was saying is that they can promise the earth and play to the electorate safe in the knowledge that they will never have to fulfil any of their promises.But of course we are in a democracy and the electorate are free to vote for who they want. 3. Are you really suggesting that Cameron is lying about a referendum ? The Conservative Party are the only party who have said they will offer an in/out referendum so the electorate will have their say.So if you want the UK OUT of the EU vote Conservative as you will have a chance to influence the vote.UKIP cannot offer any such referendum.They are "Hogwash" LOL ! Anyway I really must go, off my "Soapbox" now - I am just out to canvass on behalf of the Conservative Party !!!! 1. UKIP opposes the European Union (which is a supranational government) from within the European parliament. The more MEPs they have, the louder their voice becomes. That is how democracy works. The fact that you think the number of MEPs is irrelevant just shows how pointless the supposedly "democratic" European parliament is! 2. I accept your point on the populism, but I think the difference between UKIP and the other parties on that score is one of degree, not of kind. In other words, they're all a bunch of cheap populists, ergo populism is not a good enough reason to vote fot them over UKIP. The point here is that in a democracy, it'as important to influence the general direction as it is to ensure particular manifesto policies are carried out, particularly when you're not happy with the status quo. 3. Yes, and I'm not "suggesting" it, I'm stating it outright: the Tory "promise" of a referendum is about as reliable as a builder's estimate from a dodgy bloke in the pub. There are so many "ifs" and get-out clauses and kicking of cans down the road. Cameron doesn't want a referendum, he just want mugs like you and me to vote for him by pretending he does. ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 08 May 14 7.46pm

Quote Willo at 08 May 2014 7.26pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 7.09pm

Sorry, Willo, but this response is not good enough.

You need to explain *why* it is bad thing to campaign against a government by participating in the parliament which holds it to account.

The alternatives are resorting to violence or submitting to tyranny.

The rest of your post says we should vote for the establishment because.... well, because it's the establishment!

Don't vote for UKIP because they are too small to form a government is just not good enough.

And if you truly believe the crap fed to you by Cameron on the referendum then there really is no hope for you.

Anyway I really must go, off my "Soapbox" now - I am just out to canvass on behalf of the Conservative Party !!!!

1. UKIP opposes the European Union (which is a supranational government) from within the European parliament. The more MEPs they have, the louder their voice becomes. That is how democracy works. The fact that you think the number of MEPs is irrelevant just shows how pointless the supposedly "democratic" European parliament is!

2. I accept your point on the populism, but I think the difference between UKIP and the other parties on that score is one of degree, not of kind. In other words, they're all a bunch of cheap populists, ergo populism is not a good enough reason to vote fot them over UKIP. The point here is that in a democracy, it'as important to influence the general direction as it is to ensure particular manifesto policies are carried out, particularly when you're not happy with the status quo.

3. Yes, and I'm not "suggesting" it, I'm stating it outright: the Tory "promise" of a referendum is about as reliable as a builder's estimate from a dodgy bloke in the pub. There are so many "ifs" and get-out clauses and kicking of cans down the road. Cameron doesn't want a referendum, he just want mugs like you and me to vote for him by pretending he does.

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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TUX redhill 08 May 14 8.37pm
And it's this lack of viewing human beings as actual human beings - living, caring, unfortunate creatures - that winds me up. Instead they are reduced to a sort of caricatured number on a sheet, proof of and intrinsic solution to our social issues, and most of all a threat to YOUR lifestyle. --------------------------------------- Serial Thriller. With all due respect bud, this is how the current protagonists view the poor that are already here. How did you miss that? For example, 'The bedroom tax', brought in by THOSE CURRENTLY IN POWER. They pick on the poor/claimants as that will appease the majority. It's a vote winner yeah? This stance was never going to work due to the intricacies of local Councils, ie a lack of bloody housing! This ridiculous idea has cost 'the majority in favour of picking on those less fortunate than themselves' many millions without them knowing it. Why has it gone 'under the radar', because it would make all the dumb look even dumber for believing what they were told to believe in the first place. So I'll say it again, it's so much easier to attack a minority that has NO POWER AND NO AFFECT ON ANYONE (and never will have) than standing up to a main party who currently HAS POWER! Why bang on about what 'may happen' if you're not prepared to bang on about what IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING under a different banner?
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TUX

redhill 08 May 14 8.37pm

And it's this lack of viewing human beings as actual human beings - living, caring, unfortunate creatures - that winds me up. Instead they are reduced to a sort of caricatured number on a sheet, proof of and intrinsic solution to our social issues, and most of all a threat to YOUR lifestyle.
---------------------------------------

Serial Thriller.

With all due respect bud, this is how the current protagonists view the poor that are already here. How did you miss that?
For example, 'The bedroom tax', brought in by THOSE CURRENTLY IN POWER. They pick on the poor/claimants as that will appease the majority. It's a vote winner yeah? This stance was never going to work due to the intricacies of local Councils, ie a lack of bloody housing! This ridiculous idea has cost 'the majority in favour of picking on those less fortunate than themselves' many millions without them knowing it. Why has it gone 'under the radar', because it would make all the dumb look even dumber for believing what they were told to believe in the first place.
So I'll say it again, it's so much easier to attack a minority that has NO POWER AND NO AFFECT ON ANYONE (and never will have) than standing up to a main party who currently HAS POWER!

Why bang on about what 'may happen' if you're not prepared to bang on about what IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING under a different banner?

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 08 May 14 10.01pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 7.46pm 3. Yes, and I'm not "suggesting" it, I'm stating it outright: the Tory "promise" of a referendum is about as reliable as a builder's estimate from a dodgy bloke in the pub. There are so many "ifs" and get-out clauses and kicking of cans down the road. Cameron doesn't want a referendum, he just want mugs like you and me to vote for him by pretending he does. This is total codswallop. You have your opinion and I have mine - Alas we are on "Opposite sides of the house" on this one NEVER to converge !
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 08 May 14 10.01pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 7.46pm

This is total codswallop.
You have your opinion and I have mine - Alas we are on "Opposite sides of the house" on this one NEVER to converge !

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 08 May 14 10.07pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 7.46pm The more MEPs they have, the louder their voice becomes. What loud voice ? Have you seen their attendance record ? Nothing to write home about !
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 08 May 14 10.07pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 7.46pm

The more MEPs they have, the louder their voice becomes.

What loud voice ? Have you seen their attendance record ? Nothing to write home about !

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 08 May 14 10.07pm
Quote TUX at 08 May 2014 8.37pm And it's this lack of viewing human beings as actual human beings - living, caring, unfortunate creatures - that winds me up. Instead they are reduced to a sort of caricatured number on a sheet, proof of and intrinsic solution to our social issues, and most of all a threat to YOUR lifestyle. --------------------------------------- Serial Thriller. With all due respect bud, this is how the current protagonists view the poor that are already here. How did you miss that? For example, 'The bedroom tax', brought in by THOSE CURRENTLY IN POWER. They pick on the poor/claimants as that will appease the majority. It's a vote winner yeah? This stance was never going to work due to the intricacies of local Councils, ie a lack of bloody housing! This ridiculous idea has cost 'the majority in favour of picking on those less fortunate than themselves' many millions without them knowing it. Why has it gone 'under the radar', because it would make all the dumb look even dumber for believing what they were told to believe in the first place. So I'll say it again, it's so much easier to attack a minority that has NO POWER AND NO AFFECT ON ANYONE (and never will have) than standing up to a main party who currently HAS POWER! Why bang on about what 'may happen' if you're not prepared to bang on about what IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING under a different banner? TUX. With all due respect, you are having a pop at the wrong posters on here. This is a thread about UKIP, which is why we are attacking them (or defending if a political simpleton) look at these threads... [Link] bedroom tax [Link] gagging bill [Link] The coalition Hope this makes one bud wiser
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 08 May 14 10.07pm

Quote TUX at 08 May 2014 8.37pm

Serial Thriller.

Why bang on about what 'may happen' if you're not prepared to bang on about what IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING under a different banner?

TUX. With all due respect, you are having a pop at the wrong posters on here.
This is a thread about UKIP, which is why we are attacking them (or defending if a political simpleton)

look at these threads...
[Link] bedroom tax

[Link]

gagging bill

[Link]
The coalition

Hope this makes one bud wiser

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Johnny Eagles berlin 08 May 14 10.09pm
Quote Willo at 08 May 2014 10.01pm Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 7.46pm 3. Yes, and I'm not "suggesting" it, I'm stating it outright: the Tory "promise" of a referendum is about as reliable as a builder's estimate from a dodgy bloke in the pub. There are so many "ifs" and get-out clauses and kicking of cans down the road. Cameron doesn't want a referendum, he just want mugs like you and me to vote for him by pretending he does. This is total codswallop. You have your opinion and I have mine - Alas we are on "Opposite sides of the house" on this one NEVER to converge ! 50 quid says it doesn't happen. ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 08 May 14 10.09pm

Quote Willo at 08 May 2014 10.01pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 08 May 2014 7.46pm

This is total codswallop.
You have your opinion and I have mine - Alas we are on "Opposite sides of the house" on this one NEVER to converge !

50 quid says it doesn't happen.

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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TUX redhill 08 May 14 10.44pm
TUX. With all due respect, you are having a pop at the wrong posters on here. This is a thread about UKIP, which is why we are attacking them ------------------------ Nick, I again say why on earth are you attacking something with NO POWER and has had NO effect on your life whatsoever! You cannot honestly be that fkn stupid bud? I'm 'having a pop' at the right people mate, you just don't get it/don't see it. You choose to 'attack' something that has no power, will never have any power and completely disregard those that are IN POWER? Being dumb is one thing, but being dumb as well as blind to what is happening is another. That's your stance, not mine. Oh well.
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TUX

redhill 08 May 14 10.44pm

TUX. With all due respect, you are having a pop at the wrong posters on here.
This is a thread about UKIP, which is why we are attacking them
------------------------

Nick, I again say why on earth are you attacking something with NO POWER and has had NO effect on your life whatsoever!
You cannot honestly be that fkn stupid bud?
I'm 'having a pop' at the right people mate, you just don't get it/don't see it.
You choose to 'attack' something that has no power, will never have any power and completely disregard those that are IN POWER?

Being dumb is one thing, but being dumb as well as blind to what is happening is another. That's your stance, not mine. Oh well.

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TUX redhill 08 May 14 10.56pm
@nickgusset There was a lengthy debate recently on LBC 97.3 where many stats and many views were aired re- 'The bedroom Tax'. Despite rousing the blinkered rabble (cough cough), the bedroom tax has failed massively. It really is that simple. I'm surprised that you've not made an article on Halal Chicken being served in Pizza Express as you seem to be one for 'sucker headlines'. Or is that work in progress bud?
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TUX

redhill 08 May 14 10.56pm

@nickgusset

There was a lengthy debate recently on LBC 97.3 where many stats and many views were aired re- 'The bedroom Tax'.
Despite rousing the blinkered rabble (cough cough), the bedroom tax has failed massively. It really is that simple.
I'm surprised that you've not made an article on Halal Chicken being served in Pizza Express as you seem to be one for 'sucker headlines'. Or is that work in progress bud?

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