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National Anthems
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jamiemartin721  Reading 28 Sep 17 10.12am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You really do talk some s***e Gusset. There is no rise in fascism, just a reaction to an invasion of foreigners. Yeah, there has been a definite rise in the far right across Europe and its popularity. Is it really about multiculturalism, I doubt it, its probably far more to do with economic hardship, loss of jobs, wages etc - 'Blaming the foriegners' is the easy way, because it means you don't have to do anything about the corporations using cheap labour to keep wages down, and control job security. Before the credit crunch people seemed to be getting along fine, regardless of the nation of origin, because the economy was doing well; but the problem was writ large, with the freedom of movement - that it was slowing wage growth. Post crunch, it crushed it. End of the day, what most people want, is the same, a reasonable income, a decent life. That's what attracts migrant workers in the first place. Most people don't give a s**t about race.
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  Hrolf The Ganger 28 Sep 17 10.23am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Yeah, there has been a definite rise in the far right across Europe and its popularity. Is it really about multiculturalism, I doubt it, its probably far more to do with economic hardship, loss of jobs, wages etc - 'Blaming the foriegners' is the easy way, because it means you don't have to do anything about the corporations using cheap labour to keep wages down, and control job security. Before the credit crunch people seemed to be getting along fine, regardless of the nation of origin, because the economy was doing well; but the problem was writ large, with the freedom of movement - that it was slowing wage growth. Post crunch, it crushed it. End of the day, what most people want, is the same, a reasonable income, a decent life. That's what attracts migrant workers in the first place. Most people don't give a s**t about race. 'Race' has nothing to do with anything. It is a red herring. There is always a financial element to everything but there is more to it.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 28 Sep 17 10.30am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It's exactly the same here. It would have been better if none of this violence had happened. The state is the only sanctioned major use of force because it has a mandate. We also don't have five thousand fascists marching down streets on a banned march.....if you start fights with that lot physically that's how they expand. That's exactly how Hitler's brown shirts grew.....Moseley's lot were done for once the war started....now the only major antisemitism is found in with your lot. The reality is that the return of concepts like fascism are only possible if there were a global collapse and people are starving in the streets. That's the only realistic way fascists will come back.....Mind you a form of communism is looking to get in now....though I don't regard Corbyn as an authoritarian communist....well, at least I don't think he is. Problem is he supported Chavez and Castro. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Sep 2017 8.50am) He will gradually turn into one blaming enemies of the people as his policies start to fail. It's happened in every other attempt at socialism. Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Sep 2017 10.30am)
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Stirlingsays 28 Sep 17 10.42am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Yeah, there has been a definite rise in the far right across Europe and its popularity. Is it really about multiculturalism, I doubt it, its probably far more to do with economic hardship, loss of jobs, wages etc - 'Blaming the foriegners' is the easy way, because it means you don't have to do anything about the corporations using cheap labour to keep wages down, and control job security. Before the credit crunch people seemed to be getting along fine, regardless of the nation of origin, because the economy was doing well; but the problem was writ large, with the freedom of movement - that it was slowing wage growth. Post crunch, it crushed it. End of the day, what most people want, is the same, a reasonable income, a decent life. That's what attracts migrant workers in the first place. Most people don't give a s**t about race. I suppose human nature isn't that difficult, it's pretty consistent across all societies. If people feel threatened they react against the perceived threat, if they don't they don't. Those who hold ideologies and complain about human nature are about as realistic as King Canute was with the waves. Essentially it comes down to worldviews and what you identify as a person which drives the policies you support. I like your last paragraph but this country has been badly let down by its immigration policy. We have taken in too many people who are anti secularist....as the massive increase in our security funding has shown.
Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Sep 2017 10.43am)
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| Stirlingsays 28 Sep 17 10.45am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
He will gradually turn into one blaming enemies of the people as his policies start to fail. It's happened in every other attempt at socialism. Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Sep 2017 10.30am) If he did somehow get in....well it would be interesting at least. We are but sand in the waves. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Sep 2017 10.46am)
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| Stirlingsays 28 Sep 17 10.51am |
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As for national anthems themselves.....rather amusingly as we have touched on communism....I think the best anthem is the Russian one. If we had Jerusalem as our national anthem I'd probably choose that though....despite its religious content. It is what it means to be English. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Sep 2017 10.57am)
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| Stirlingsays 28 Sep 17 11.10am |
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Vera Lynn singing Land of Hope and Glory(1962)is pretty powerful though....and suitable for Britain...as Jerusalem explicitly mentions England. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Sep 2017 11.29am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| PaddyMcPaddy 28 Sep 17 11.24am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
As for national anthems themselves.....rather amusingly as we have touched on communism....I think the best anthem is the Russian one. If we had Jerusalem as our national anthem I'd probably choose that though....despite its religious content. It is what it means to be English. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Sep 2017 10.57am) I was at the NFL on Sunday and what was very clear was how boring our anthem is. Highlighted even more next to the star spangled banner. I wouldnt be upset with either Jerusalem or land of hope and glory.
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| Stirlingsays 28 Sep 17 11.30am |
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Originally posted by PaddyMcPaddy
I was at the NFL on Sunday and what was very clear was how boring our anthem is. Highlighted even more next to the star spangled banner. I wouldnt be upset with either Jerusalem or land of hope and glory. Same here...I suspect the royals probably feel the same.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 28 Sep 17 11.33am |
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I don't see any need for national, or any other anthems, they just seem to be divisive, as well as being very tedious to have to listen to before sporting events etc.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Stirlingsays 28 Sep 17 11.37am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
I don't see any need for national, or any other anthems, they just seem to be divisive, as well as being very tedious to have to listen to before sporting events etc. Divisive? Do you feel divisive when you hear the opposition's anthem then? God, how this country has changed.
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 28 Sep 17 11.42am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Yeah, there has been a definite rise in the far right across Europe and its popularity. Is it really about multiculturalism, I doubt it, its probably far more to do with economic hardship, loss of jobs, wages etc - 'Blaming the foriegners' is the easy way, because it means you don't have to do anything about the corporations using cheap labour to keep wages down, and control job security. Before the credit crunch people seemed to be getting along fine, regardless of the nation of origin, because the economy was doing well; but the problem was writ large, with the freedom of movement - that it was slowing wage growth. Post crunch, it crushed it. End of the day, what most people want, is the same, a reasonable income, a decent life. That's what attracts migrant workers in the first place. Most people don't give a s**t about race. BUT where is that being driven from, you could argue that cheap immported labour from the far side of the EU is responsible for driving wages down, not up. and for people not being hired as the employer knows Johnny Polak will do twice the hours for half the money. It's a false economy anyway, as most of the Poles I know hardly spend a penny here, and send all the money home to Poland. You simply can't argue this doesn't happen.
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