I haven't heard a single pundit this morning -- Barnes, Back, Ryan, Greenwood, etc. -- say anything that you and I didn't write in this thread over the past 14 days, Sash. Entirely, completely predictable in the end. It pains me because I really do admire Bomber as a person but I think he has been more out of his depth over the past 18 months than any coach of a World Cup team in any sport that I can remember. Really, it's been embarrassing.

The pity is that this is shaping up to be a fantastic World Cup -- well, it already is that. Of the likely last eight, I would say only Scotland (or Japan) have absolutely no chance of winning it. Obviously, some teams are better than others but the other seven all have at least a shot at an upset. And unfortunately with England out, the non-rugby public will largely move on.

Oh well, I'm off to buy some leeks. I'm becoming officially Welsh for the next four weeks. This has the double advantage of added support for Hennessey, Ledley and Joniesta.

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

I think the answer to the first question is plain and simple a loss of nerve caused or compounded by a total lack of experience. The four English coaches had been them one season running a Premiership team between them (Lancaster, at Leeds) and that team was relegated. The assistant coaches were all novices to all intents and purposes. Put simply, they neither were nor are fit for the purpose.

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

That would sure explain a lot !!

Now the dust has settled a little I am struggling to actually pick any success stories from an England perspective from this train wreck. Apart from the obvious 10-12-13 cock ups, and the bizarre Line out decision against Wales, the scrum and Marler in particular has looked awful, the Aussies showed exactly what specialist 6 and 7's look like and what they should be doing and how poor we are in comparison by not having them.

The lack of composure, especially under pressure, the lack of leadership from top down, the lack of any kind of continuity in play, the swapping of 10's, the selection of Wigglesworth - probably the least dynamic of the 3 No9's, above Care, who for his faults would have given energy and go forward, the penalty count...I could go on and on...and I haven't even mentioned the players who should have been there but weren't...

Line out has been OK I guess...Watson showed he is a very good finisher and ermmm struggling for anything else...

Edited by The Sash (05 Oct 2015 12.37pm)

As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

Ok you guys understand a lot more about this than I do. But it seems to me England have 1) Enough good players to compete 2) Plenty of cash for facilities and coaching 3) Players that try really hard on the pitch 4) Fantastic home support. Seems like the raw materials are there so can only be lousy management, putting players on the pitch who've never played together, parachuting in rugby league players etc etc? Shouldn't we be getting in someone like Sir Clive to sort out the whole thing?

1. To some extent. The really good players in England are young...the mature group are not so good. We will have a very good team in 4 years time. Some of those players should have been blooded in this World Cup (Wade, Slade, Itoje etc.) and others are simply not ready yet.

2. Yes. But you can have all the cash in the world and it does you no good if you hire Andy Farrell to coach your team. This whole RWC has been a massive exercise in wasting RFU money (not least on Sam Burgess).

3. Trevor Aylott always tried really hard. Wonder whether he can play scrum half? If you're not good enough, effort doesn't really matter. And at this level, Bomber picked too many players who weren't good enough (compounded by the fact that they were poorly coached, too.)

4. Doesn't really make any difference. It's nice, but it doesn't put points on the board.

Yes, we need to get a professional, experienced top-level coach in (just like we should have done four years ago.) Ideally probably not SCW but a Nick Mallet, Jake White, Wayne Smith sort with maybe Rob Baxter as an assistant being groomed for the role in future.

Edited by sydtheeagle (05 Oct 2015 3.19pm)

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.