But if it all goes well, will you admit you were wrong or just continue to find a negative in everything

Totally predictable replies from the usual suspects so far who have all got their heads so deep in the sand that they cannot even see the end of their nose. With one exception. Respect to Matov.

The trade deals we are doing with others are broadly on the same terms as we already have as EU members. So we negotiate something we already had and then claim a success?

The idea that somehow the next few years are going to bring us opportunities is preposterous. It's going to bring us nothing but pain. The pandemic ensures that. Brexit is likely to significantly add to that pain. Growing frustration from Scotland, in particular, will add noise and pressure for their independence and the break up of the UK, with us then having an EU member with a land border. Business would flow north.

Whilst some of you might be prepared to put up with that pain because we have "got back control" what I asked was what your limit would be? How much before you change your mind? The tone of the replies suggests you would accept total ruin and still be happy.

Whether the brass nosed hardliners would cling to their straws as the UK sinks to the bottom is not actually the issue. It is how much would the majority of the people accept? You know those nasty people out there that were tricked into just voting it over the line in the first place, many of whom already have regrets. How much will they take before they demand change and when they do how on earth will the Tories respond?

We all know that people often wrongly attribute cause and effect and that politicians are adept at using that to advance their own agendas. It was done by the Brexiteers and it will be done again with the impact of the pandemic, a lot of which will be seen as a consequence of Brexit.

So dismiss these thoughts if it makes you feel better. Describe people like me as traitors if that helps. The problems and these possibilities might be beyond thinking about for you but they are real and they won't just be wished away. Nor, believe me, are the many millions like me who disagreed with the whole idea in the first place.

Many "remainers" have been taking a pause for breath, to re-energise and reorganise during this period. As the next years pass expect to see them become much more active. The wind will be in their sails, with the tide of history firmly flowing their way. You will be on the back foot trying to scrape the mould off the jam you promised tomorrow.

I always said it was a long haul. Nothing has changed. The chickens are all on their way home. Home being within the EU where we now belong.

Of course. Just don't hold your breath. It would be 30 years by some of the Brexiteers own estimates before we recovered to where we were. The disaster will be apparent much sooner than that.

I shall retire from this thread for a while now and not return, unless by some miracle we do get a deal agreed, for a few months when we can review just how things are progressing.

Until then you can share each other's anti-EU sentiments, and prophecies of it's impending implosion, to your heart's content.

Remoaners tears have never tasted so delicious as they do today and I suspect for the next 48-72 hours or so although I still fear a betrayal.

If no-deal becomes a reality (and fingers crossed) one thing that I will never be able to understand is why this was not accepted as the default position from the start with any talks with the EU handled accordingly?

These redlines about fishing and the so called equal playing field in terms of regulations have existed since day 1 and it has also been clear that the EU simply cannot deliver an agreed mandate on them.

So assume No-Deal from the start and if a deal emerges by the end of it, so be it?

Still lets see. Plenty of twists and turns and my gut instinct is still that a deal has been done with only the machinations of internal EU wrangling to work itself out.