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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Dec 20 11.24am
Originally posted by Badger11 WE may I suggest you start your own little business. Selling T shirts with a UK / EU Remain symbol and a "I told you So" slogan . If your correct you will sell millions. Bit early for that and anyway I'm really not interested in making cheap political points. Despite all the suggestions on here. We will see. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 10 Dec 20 11.24am

Originally posted by Badger11

WE may I suggest you start your own little business.

Selling T shirts with a UK / EU Remain symbol and a "I told you So" slogan .

If your correct you will sell millions.

Bit early for that and anyway I'm really not interested in making cheap political points. Despite all the suggestions on here.

We will see.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Dec 20 11.29am
Originally posted by cryrst It does seem like you wish it to cause the uk harm. It may or it may not but going for a glory tick if it goes south is a wee bit sad. I am not the least interested in "I told you so" for its own sake. I want people to accept that if it does go the way I anticipate that we need to change again, and not stand on high hobby horses just because you don't like admitting you were wrong. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 10 Dec 20 11.29am

Originally posted by cryrst

It does seem like you wish it to cause the uk harm.
It may or it may not but going for a glory tick if it goes south is a wee bit sad.

I am not the least interested in "I told you so" for its own sake.

I want people to accept that if it does go the way I anticipate that we need to change again, and not stand on high hobby horses just because you don't like admitting you were wrong.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Dec 20 11.34am
Originally posted by cryrst But we only pay that once then it's done. Not in any way. The admin is constant and so will be the need for the reviews of regulations to ensure alignment with other regimes, most notably that of the EU. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 10 Dec 20 11.34am

Originally posted by cryrst

But we only pay that once then it's done.

Not in any way. The admin is constant and so will be the need for the reviews of regulations to ensure alignment with other regimes, most notably that of the EU.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Dec 20 11.38am
Originally posted by BlueJay A lot of it is saving face I'd say. I expect we'll get a late in the day deal that both sides will claim demonstrates they held firm and that it is on their terms. Very unlikely. The EU cannot compromise their position. They don't have the authority to do so, even if they wanted to, which they don't. It on our side that any shift is possible and that is not going to happen, given the language. This is just a blame game now. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 10 Dec 20 11.38am

Originally posted by BlueJay

A lot of it is saving face I'd say. I expect we'll get a late in the day deal that both sides will claim demonstrates they held firm and that it is on their terms.

Very unlikely.

The EU cannot compromise their position. They don't have the authority to do so, even if they wanted to, which they don't.

It on our side that any shift is possible and that is not going to happen, given the language.

This is just a blame game now.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Badger11 Beckenham 10 Dec 20 11.42am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Very unlikely. The EU cannot compromise their position. They don't have the authority to do so, even if they wanted to, which they don't. It on our side that any shift is possible and that is not going to happen, given the language. This is just a blame game now. Why do you say that? They can do what they like it will have to be ratified by the EU Parliament and the national governments but that was always going to happen and maybe it will be rejected. I agree with you that if anyone caves it is likely to be us so I am suspicious if any deal is reached until we see the small print. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 10 Dec 20 11.42am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Very unlikely.

The EU cannot compromise their position. They don't have the authority to do so, even if they wanted to, which they don't.

It on our side that any shift is possible and that is not going to happen, given the language.

This is just a blame game now.

Why do you say that? They can do what they like it will have to be ratified by the EU Parliament and the national governments but that was always going to happen and maybe it will be rejected.

I agree with you that if anyone caves it is likely to be us so I am suspicious if any deal is reached until we see the small print.

One more point

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Spiderman Horsham 10 Dec 20 12.30pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I am not the least interested in "I told you so" for its own sake. I want people to accept that if it does go the way I anticipate that we need to change again, and not stand on high hobby horses just because you don't like admitting you were wrong. But if it all goes well, will you admit you were wrong or just continue to find a negative in everything
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Spiderman

Horsham 10 Dec 20 12.30pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am not the least interested in "I told you so" for its own sake.

I want people to accept that if it does go the way I anticipate that we need to change again, and not stand on high hobby horses just because you don't like admitting you were wrong.

But if it all goes well, will you admit you were wrong or just continue to find a negative in everything

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Spiderman Horsham 10 Dec 20 1.04pm
[Link] Hope these get done before the sky falls in.
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Spiderman

Horsham 10 Dec 20 1.04pm

[Link]

Hope these get done before the sky falls in.

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kevlee born Wandsworth emigrated to Lanc... 10 Dec 20 1.54pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays If only we could have a 'brexit' for these fifth columnists. Commie Lord Haw Haws. Are you referring to Jim Radcliffe, James Dyson and Jacob Rees-Mogg etc by any chance? Its not right when people say were all in it together and then scurry out the back door with their money to base it in the EU. If we are to make leave work (which we have to) these types of behaviors need to be taken to task. Following Palace since 25 Feb 1978
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kevlee

born Wandsworth emigrated to Lanc... 10 Dec 20 1.54pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If only we could have a 'brexit' for these fifth columnists.

Commie Lord Haw Haws.

Are you referring to Jim Radcliffe, James Dyson and Jacob Rees-Mogg etc by any chance? Its not right when people say were all in it together and then scurry out the back door with their money to base it in the EU. If we are to make leave work (which we have to) these types of behaviors need to be taken to task.

Following Palace since 25 Feb 1978

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steeleye20 Croydon 10 Dec 20 2.06pm
I wonder what the other member states think of this, it appears that a former member of the EU has more clout than they do. The idea that the UK could access the single market without meeting the standards that members have to adhere too, is amazingly called 'punishing' the UK!! 'Where love has gone, angels fear to tread'
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steeleye20

Croydon 10 Dec 20 2.06pm

I wonder what the other member states think of this, it appears that a former member of the EU has more clout than they do.

The idea that the UK could access the single market without meeting the standards that members have to adhere too, is amazingly called 'punishing' the UK!!

'Where love has gone, angels fear to tread'

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 10 Dec 20 3.18pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I wonder what the other member states think of this, it appears that a former member of the EU has more clout than they do. The idea that the UK could access the single market without meeting the standards that members have to adhere too, is amazingly called 'punishing' the UK!! 'Where love has gone, angels fear to tread' Even the EU has to eventually face reality. If they want any money from the UK then they will have to compromise as Germany and basically everyone except France wants. Britain has its deal with Japan, Japan, in turn did a deal across the now largest trading bloc in the world, in Asia. It went somewhat under the radar. Firstly, because no one expected Japan and China to sign a trade deal, secondly, it doesn't suit the remain narrative press. The EU has been outdone and knows it. Japan and China - as usual, pragmatic. The EU, as usual, delusional and split along the France/Germany axis. The end fame will be Macron cap in had to Merkel. Nein, meine freunde, nein. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 10 Dec 20 3.18pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I wonder what the other member states think of this, it appears that a former member of the EU has more clout than they do.

The idea that the UK could access the single market without meeting the standards that members have to adhere too, is amazingly called 'punishing' the UK!!

'Where love has gone, angels fear to tread'

Even the EU has to eventually face reality. If they want any money from the UK then they will have to compromise as Germany and basically everyone except France wants. Britain has its deal with Japan, Japan, in turn did a deal across the now largest trading bloc in the world, in Asia. It went somewhat under the radar. Firstly, because no one expected Japan and China to sign a trade deal, secondly, it doesn't suit the remain narrative press.
The EU has been outdone and knows it. Japan and China - as usual, pragmatic. The EU, as usual, delusional and split along the France/Germany axis. The end fame will be Macron cap in had to Merkel. Nein, meine freunde, nein.

Red and Blue Army!

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BlueJay UK 10 Dec 20 3.33pm
Originally posted by Matov To a certain extent, maybe. But politically, it is the EU that is in much more of a mire than the UK. Johnson has a huge majority, still enjoys reasonably good polling on a variety of fronts despite the s*** show that 2020 has been. The issue for the EU is less about Brexit now but more about the wider cohesion in the East. And whilst Macron might make noises about fishing, it is Poland and Hungary that causing Brussels far more headaches at the moment. The EU know that the UK is gone and not coming back. No British election is going to include even a hint of us rejoining the EU for probably 25 years at a minimum and even then that presupposes the EU still exists in a recognisable form. Politically if there is no chance of a deal then Johnson stands far more to gain by having walked a while ago. Probably back in October. Logistically it would have made sense and given what happened in the 2019 GE, there are zero electoral downsides to no deal. The people making all the noise are not the people who would ever vote Tory in the first place. Hence why I think this is now all about essentially forcing the EU to pass the agreement without to much time for detailed scrutiny. Johnson has all the political cards on his side with only Scotland the possible fly in the ointment but that is a solvable problem with once again, no real downsides politically for Johnson eve if Scotland do vote to leave eventually. Again, no votes up there that matter. Definitely some good points. I hope Johnson plays to his and our strengths. I'm not sure that he's really excelled in pressure situations since becoming PM, so if he can force a favourable deal, or failing that forge ahead in a meaningful direction regardless, that would put us in good stead. As you say the EU has problems aplenty outside of the Brexit saga and so may be more willing to agree to a deal that's less favourable for them just to move beyond this. Time will tell!
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BlueJay

UK 10 Dec 20 3.33pm

Originally posted by Matov

To a certain extent, maybe.

But politically, it is the EU that is in much more of a mire than the UK. Johnson has a huge majority, still enjoys reasonably good polling on a variety of fronts despite the s*** show that 2020 has been.

The issue for the EU is less about Brexit now but more about the wider cohesion in the East. And whilst Macron might make noises about fishing, it is Poland and Hungary that causing Brussels far more headaches at the moment.

The EU know that the UK is gone and not coming back. No British election is going to include even a hint of us rejoining the EU for probably 25 years at a minimum and even then that presupposes the EU still exists in a recognisable form.

Politically if there is no chance of a deal then Johnson stands far more to gain by having walked a while ago. Probably back in October. Logistically it would have made sense and given what happened in the 2019 GE, there are zero electoral downsides to no deal. The people making all the noise are not the people who would ever vote Tory in the first place.

Hence why I think this is now all about essentially forcing the EU to pass the agreement without to much time for detailed scrutiny. Johnson has all the political cards on his side with only Scotland the possible fly in the ointment but that is a solvable problem with once again, no real downsides politically for Johnson eve if Scotland do vote to leave eventually. Again, no votes up there that matter.

Definitely some good points. I hope Johnson plays to his and our strengths. I'm not sure that he's really excelled in pressure situations since becoming PM, so if he can force a favourable deal, or failing that forge ahead in a meaningful direction regardless, that would put us in good stead. As you say the EU has problems aplenty outside of the Brexit saga and so may be more willing to agree to a deal that's less favourable for them just to move beyond this. Time will tell!

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Dec 20 3.48pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Why do you say that? They can do what they like it will have to be ratified by the EU Parliament and the national governments but that was always going to happen and maybe it will be rejected. I agree with you that if anyone caves it is likely to be us so I am suspicious if any deal is reached until we see the small print. If my understanding is correct the EU regard what is being asked for would, if granted, destroy the integrity of the single market, which is one of the key underlying principles. Neither the Commission nor the Parliament can compromise that, and I don't think the heads of state could either without a new convention. This is a clash of unreconcilable basic principles. Johnson has painted himself into a corner from which there is no escape. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 10 Dec 20 3.48pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Why do you say that? They can do what they like it will have to be ratified by the EU Parliament and the national governments but that was always going to happen and maybe it will be rejected.

I agree with you that if anyone caves it is likely to be us so I am suspicious if any deal is reached until we see the small print.

If my understanding is correct the EU regard what is being asked for would, if granted, destroy the integrity of the single market, which is one of the key underlying principles. Neither the Commission nor the Parliament can compromise that, and I don't think the heads of state could either without a new convention.

This is a clash of unreconcilable basic principles. Johnson has painted himself into a corner from which there is no escape.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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