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 The White Horse  05 May 14 5.38pm |
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One thing that struck me today. Many of the people who vote UKIP as a protest are also people who would say, of a protest (like an anti-tuition fee march) that "it doesn't achieve anything and is a waste of time".
"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee |
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Kermit8  Hevon 05 May 14 6.49pm |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 May 2014 2.11pm
I think people use the 'no other alternative' as just a smokescreen to delude themselves that they are not really like that. If that were really true and with sincerity surely a spoilt ballot paper or a vote for a benign (Monster Raving..) candidate is the way to go?
Edited by Kermit8 (05 May 2014 1.48pm) So do you think protest votes are bollocks full stop, or only when applied to people who vote UKIP? Conservative You vote for one of those because at the end of the day you have decided they are the party for you and the other three you have rejected. That's not a protest. That's a well thought out choice hoping to give extra power to certain politicians. A vote for the Monster Raving...well that is a proper protest. Rejection of all the major parties. Edited by Kermit8 (05 May 2014 1.59pm) That seems completely arbitrary to me. Why is UKIP not a protest but, say, Green or Monster Loony is? UKIP is not a "major" party. Based on its size, support and media coverage, it is a fringe party. Until very recently it was a tiny, single issue party. I support it on that single issue (I would support Britain leaving the EU). I refuse to vote for the other three, mainly because I think they are all run by an elite political class who govern for themselves, not for the country. I would quite like to see the Tory party split after being beaten by Ukip. I neither want nor hope for a ukip majority. That makes me a protest ukip voter. Doesn't it?? Quite interested as to why you think that wouldn't be defined as a protest vote. I am extremely curious, given the above, what are these "same-ish" views I therefore - according to your deduction - must hold? Pray do tell.
Which means it is not a protest vote but an actual affirmative action in favour of said candidate. 2) Barking up the wrong tree with that one. UKIP could have just as well been Labour, Conservative or Libs in that original sentence from the perspective in which I was referring.
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Johnny Eagles  berlin 05 May 14 7.07pm |
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I think we differ on a definition of "protest" voting. For me it includes UKIP, or Green, or Respect. A vote for a fringe party that won't win a seat is a protest vote, by my definition. (Talking FPTP that is). I admit that's what I thought you were implying. Happy to be wrong, consider me corrected.
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| The White Horse 06 May 14 12.25am |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 May 2014 7.07pm
I think we differ on a definition of "protest" voting. For me it includes UKIP, or Green, or Respect. A vote for a fringe party that won't win a seat is a protest vote, by my definition. (Talking FPTP that is). I admit that's what I thought you were implying. Happy to be wrong, consider me corrected. Surely UKIP and the Greens can win in the EU elections (and will get MEPs)? Chances are that they might both have an MP after 2015 too.
"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee |
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| Stirlingsays 06 May 14 1.42am |
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I think that the mainstream of the left (I recognise that not all the left bend over for the EU...Hence Ukip's Labour voters) need to recognise that Ukip are here to stay while we exist in a situation where this country's misgivings about Euro go unheard and unacted on. The UK leaving the union would itself be in protest at what the institution has become ....It wouldn't mean that we wouldn't work with Europe...We always have, trade with Europe and who knows, rejoin again at a later date when the ambitions of the union had left silly concepts like the Euro and massive movement towards centralization on everything behind. Who knows if the EU finally realise that its third biggest contributor is actually leaving.....And it only has five actual net contributors to the damn thing....Then maybe it will wake up and really realise it has to change to actually survive long term. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 May 2014 1.44am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Johnny Eagles berlin 06 May 14 11.07am |
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Quote The White Horse at 06 May 2014 12.25am
Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 May 2014 7.07pm
I think we differ on a definition of "protest" voting. For me it includes UKIP, or Green, or Respect. A vote for a fringe party that won't win a seat is a protest vote, by my definition. (Talking FPTP that is). I admit that's what I thought you were implying. Happy to be wrong, consider me corrected. Surely UKIP and the Greens can win in the EU elections (and will get MEPs)? Chances are that they might both have an MP after 2015 too. It's a fair point, though one might argue that candidates for the European elections win very little power and people are therefore even more inclined to use them as a protest vote. Following this discussion, I accept that I probably need to be more exact in my use of the term "protest" when it comes to voting. I accept that voting UKIP is not *just* a protest vote, in the sense that spoiling the ballot paper is. But it is a haven for people who are fed up with the conventional wisdom and groupthink of the Political Class, myself included.
...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread... |
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| Hoof Hearted 06 May 14 11.12am | |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 06 May 2014 11.07am
Quote The White Horse at 06 May 2014 12.25am
Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 May 2014 7.07pm
I think we differ on a definition of "protest" voting. For me it includes UKIP, or Green, or Respect. A vote for a fringe party that won't win a seat is a protest vote, by my definition. (Talking FPTP that is). I admit that's what I thought you were implying. Happy to be wrong, consider me corrected. Surely UKIP and the Greens can win in the EU elections (and will get MEPs)? Chances are that they might both have an MP after 2015 too. It's a fair point, though one might argue that candidates for the European elections win very little power and people are therefore even more inclined to use them as a protest vote. Following this discussion, I accept that I probably need to be more exact in my use of the term "protest" when it comes to voting. I accept that voting UKIP is not *just* a protest vote, in the sense that spoiling the ballot paper is. But it is a haven for people who are fed up with the conventional wisdom and groupthink of the Political Class, myself included.
If UKIP do well, it will make Cameron rethink his strategy and take this EU/Immigration problem more seriously. If he doesn't then my support for UKIP may well strengthen from tactical to actual.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 06 May 14 11.13am |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 06 May 2014 11.07am
Quote The White Horse at 06 May 2014 12.25am
Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 May 2014 7.07pm
I think we differ on a definition of "protest" voting. For me it includes UKIP, or Green, or Respect. A vote for a fringe party that won't win a seat is a protest vote, by my definition. (Talking FPTP that is). I admit that's what I thought you were implying. Happy to be wrong, consider me corrected. Surely UKIP and the Greens can win in the EU elections (and will get MEPs)? Chances are that they might both have an MP after 2015 too. It's a fair point, though one might argue that candidates for the European elections win very little power and people are therefore even more inclined to use them as a protest vote. Following this discussion, I accept that I probably need to be more exact in my use of the term "protest" when it comes to voting. I accept that voting UKIP is not *just* a protest vote, in the sense that spoiling the ballot paper is. But it is a haven for people who are fed up with the conventional wisdom and groupthink of the Political Class, myself included.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| Johnny Eagles berlin 06 May 14 11.43am |
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Quote Kermit8 at 06 May 2014 11.13am
Quote Johnny Eagles at 06 May 2014 11.07am
Quote The White Horse at 06 May 2014 12.25am
Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 May 2014 7.07pm
I think we differ on a definition of "protest" voting. For me it includes UKIP, or Green, or Respect. A vote for a fringe party that won't win a seat is a protest vote, by my definition. (Talking FPTP that is). I admit that's what I thought you were implying. Happy to be wrong, consider me corrected. Surely UKIP and the Greens can win in the EU elections (and will get MEPs)? Chances are that they might both have an MP after 2015 too. It's a fair point, though one might argue that candidates for the European elections win very little power and people are therefore even more inclined to use them as a protest vote. Following this discussion, I accept that I probably need to be more exact in my use of the term "protest" when it comes to voting. I accept that voting UKIP is not *just* a protest vote, in the sense that spoiling the ballot paper is. But it is a haven for people who are fed up with the conventional wisdom and groupthink of the Political Class, myself included.
What can I say? You've convinced me! I know it's bad form in General Talk to be open-minded and I really ought to have resorted to personal insults instead of changing my mind. Will try harder next time.
...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread... |
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| The White Horse 06 May 14 12.08pm |
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I realise I'm probably in a minority in this thread, but I thought I'd state the obvious and say that I'll be voting Labour. There's a possibility I may go from having zero to two Labour MEPs, so I'd rather add to the likelihood of than vote for someone as left-wing as me who is frankly wasting their time paying their deposit. At least when you protest vote on the right you end up on a winning team!
"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee |
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Sg Bilko  Deurne Holland 06 May 14 12.25pm |
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What does UKIP stand for. They are nothing but a bunch of discriminating and racialist halfwits that would lead your Country to become a laughing stock, and the biggest halfwit is that beer swilling, outrageously Gordy trouser wearing twit, who's smile even a long suffering mother would find it hard too love.
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| Johnny Eagles berlin 06 May 14 2.33pm |
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Quote Sg Bilko at 06 May 2014 12.25pm
What does UKIP stand for. They are nothing but a bunch of discriminating and racialist halfwits that would lead your Country to become a laughing stock, and the biggest halfwit is that beer swilling, outrageously Gordy trouser wearing twit, who's smile even a long suffering mother would find it hard too love. United Kingdom Independence Party
...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread... |
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