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Hrolf The Ganger 11 Oct 19 9.15pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Of course people want it concluded, but not at any price. Parliament will reject the deal if they consider it's not in the UK's best interests. I have no doubt that some will allow politics to be part of their thinking but I don't think that applies to very many. Unfortunately those that might are those leading the two major parties. You don't just give up because you are tired of trying. Success usually follows a series of failures. Losers quit. If it takes another try, or a new Parliament, to find the right solution then that's what we must do. We must take the time we need and not just accept something because it's on the table now. We know what you, and the ultra Brexiteers want, but that's not what a majority in Parliament want nor is it, in my opinion, what most in the country want. They would reject for party political reasons. Shall I just repeat that 100 more times? Of course, we could have a yes or no to the deal or no deal referendum but no remain option. That would allow the same unqualified people who you said should not be deciding this stuff to decide something even more complex.
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cryrst The garden of England 11 Oct 19 9.30pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Much better to do nothing than do something wrong. If it takes more time to get it right then we just need to accept that and sort it out. No-body is procrastinating in any way. They just won't accept an exit which they are sure will cause us avoidable harm. You might want to reflect why Johnson has waited this long before getting to this point. He is leaving Parliament almost no choice other than to reject whatever deal comes back, even if the EU do manage to approve it. How do you know it's wrong then.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 10.16pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
So you know the complexities going forwards about remaining then I guess! We know a great deal more about what staying in the EU means because we have decades of real experience. You don't like it but at least you know it. Coming out is like walking into a misty forest hoping there are green fields and sunshine on the other side. It would be a triumph of hope over experience.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 10.50pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
They would reject for party political reasons. Shall I just repeat that 100 more times? You can repeat it 100,000 times but that doesn't make it true does it? It makes it your opinion. I would have no time at all for any politician putting party interests above national interests at this critical time and I suspect most voters will as well. Of course, we could have a yes or no to the deal or no deal referendum but no remain option. That would allow the same unqualified people who you said should not be deciding this stuff to decide something even more complex. Holding another referendum has never been my preference but I heard Hammond make a persuasive argument in favour a day or two ago. This was that as a government in our first past the post system is rarely elected by more than 35% of the electorate asking Parliament to be able to decide and carry opinion with them in sufficient strength for the electorate to be comfortable with it, is pretty nigh impossible. Thus the divisions would continue. Holding a 3 option referendum would enable a majority to all have a stake in whatever has been negotiated.
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Teddy Eagle 11 Oct 19 10.56pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Isn’t that a contradiction though? If a decision is in the countries best interest then why should the government’s share of the vote matter?
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Oct 19 10.57pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
We know a great deal more about what staying in the EU means because we have decades of real experience. You don't like it but at least you know it. Coming out is like walking into a misty forest hoping there are green fields and sunshine on the other side. It would be a triumph of hope over experience. Grow some f***ing Balls man. Your the sort of cretin that runs a risk assessment when crossing the road to buy a loaf of bread.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 11.19pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
How do you know it's wrong then. I didn't say that though did I? I said doing nothing would be better than doing something wrong. It's Parliament who will decide whether they think it's right or wrong and not you or me. Guesses and that's it. That bluster has nothing at all to do with the issue. You had your reasons why you voted as you did in 2016 just as I had mine. It's now 2019 and we are in a different situation, even if so many of the ultra Brexiteers refuse to accept that fact. If remain had got more votes we would know no difference but it didnt it got the least. Not without conflict anyhow. That's simply untrue. The option to leave will always be there for every member, although I expect the way to do so may well be revisited in the light of this experience. In any case I fully expect that we will eventually leave, but with a carefully constructed deal which ensures we do so smoothly and which retains those aspects of a close association that can continue to benefit us, whilst removing those things that people most disliked.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 11.25pm | |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
Grow some f***ing Balls man. Your the sort of cretin that runs a risk assessment when crossing the road to buy a loaf of bread. That would be just a little OTT wouldn't it? I do though think it best to look both ways rather than stumble blindly into the traffic, hoping that you avoid accidents by good fortune, and that if you did get knocked down a big orange saviour would appear offering a snake oil cure all. Better to eat the bread just a little less hot than not at all.
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Oct 19 11.31pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That would be just a little OTT wouldn't it? I do though think it best to look both ways rather than stumble blindly into the traffic, hoping that you avoid accidents by good fortune, and that if you did get knocked down a big orange saviour would appear offering a snake oil cure all. Better to eat the bread just a little less hot than not at all. Once again you're talking absolute garbage. Don't sit on that fence too long now!!
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 11.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Isn’t that a contradiction though? If a decision is in the countries best interest then why should the government’s share of the vote matter? It's their ability to carry public opinion with them and try to ensure a large majority of the electorate have a stake in the decision, thus beginning the healing process, that was the issue. A government who has secured a majority in Parliament but was backed by only 35% of the people to achieve that would find it harder to do it just by themselves than having the result of a 3 option referendum with a single transferable vote to back them up. Any referendum which yields a very marginal result is bound to produce divisions, as we can all painfully testify to.
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Teddy Eagle 11 Oct 19 11.38pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It's their ability to carry public opinion with them and try to ensure a large majority of the electorate have a stake in the decision, thus beginning the healing process, that was the issue. A government who has secured a majority in Parliament but was backed by only 35% of the people to achieve that would find it harder to do it just by themselves than having the result of a 3 option referendum with a single transferable vote to back them up. Any referendum which yields a very marginal result is bound to produce divisions, as we can all painfully testify to. But they only need to carry the opinion of Parliament who then agree the decision.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 19 12.21am | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
But they only need to carry the opinion of Parliament who then agree the decision. They do, but the point that Hammond was making was about how best to try to start the country healing and coming back together. It's obvious that people's faith in our system has been quite badly affected by all of this and whilst that doesn't include me I can see that others aren't going to suddenly "see the light" and just agree with me. Therefore trying to find something that the overwhelming majority might be able to coalesce around makes some sense.
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