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steeleye20 Croydon 11 Oct 19 3.41pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Agreed, seems the most likely scenario. It's a huge problem this 'get it done' at all costs mentality. Once it has set in, people accept anything just to get it over the line. Particularly in parliament where disasters from Suez to Iraq have all been accompanied by large majorities, I would include Article 50 in that. It was just nodded through, the House were not capable of studying detail or having any plan. Really 'get it done' just shows that the UK basically does not know what it is doing. Is it being hidden from the public just how bad this supposed 'deal' is?
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steeleye20

Croydon 11 Oct 19 3.41pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Agreed, seems the most likely scenario.

It's a huge problem this 'get it done' at all costs mentality.

Once it has set in, people accept anything just to get it over the line.

Particularly in parliament where disasters from Suez to Iraq have all been accompanied by large majorities, I would include Article 50 in that.

It was just nodded through, the House were not capable of studying detail or having any plan.

Really 'get it done' just shows that the UK basically does not know what it is doing.

Is it being hidden from the public just how bad this supposed 'deal' is?

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Badger11 Beckenham 11 Oct 19 4.02pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 It's a huge problem this 'get it done' at all costs mentality. Once it has set in, people accept anything just to get it over the line. Particularly in parliament where disasters from Suez to Iraq have all been accompanied by large majorities, I would include Article 50 in that. It was just nodded through, the House were not capable of studying detail or having any plan. Really 'get it done' just shows that the UK basically does not know what it is doing. Is it being hidden from the public just how bad this supposed 'deal' is? We don't know if this is a good or bad deal but worry not Parliament will scrutinise it and vote on it. I'm sure the Remainers and Labour will point out the flaws. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 11 Oct 19 4.02pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

It's a huge problem this 'get it done' at all costs mentality.

Once it has set in, people accept anything just to get it over the line.

Particularly in parliament where disasters from Suez to Iraq have all been accompanied by large majorities, I would include Article 50 in that.

It was just nodded through, the House were not capable of studying detail or having any plan.

Really 'get it done' just shows that the UK basically does not know what it is doing.

Is it being hidden from the public just how bad this supposed 'deal' is?

We don't know if this is a good or bad deal but worry not Parliament will scrutinise it and vote on it. I'm sure the Remainers and Labour will point out the flaws.

One more point

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 11 Oct 19 4.15pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 It's a huge problem this 'get it done' at all costs mentality. Once it has set in, people accept anything just to get it over the line. Particularly in parliament where disasters from Suez to Iraq have all been accompanied by large majorities, I would include Article 50 in that. It was just nodded through, the House were not capable of studying detail or having any plan. Really 'get it done' just shows that the UK basically does not know what it is doing. Is it being hidden from the public just how bad this supposed 'deal' is? It's been 3 years. It's hardly last minute. This process can't continue ad infinitum. If parliament passes it, that is that. At this stage, knowing everything I do now compared with 3 years ago, plus the amount of rejections there have been in parliament – if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 11 Oct 19 4.15pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

It's a huge problem this 'get it done' at all costs mentality.

Once it has set in, people accept anything just to get it over the line.

Particularly in parliament where disasters from Suez to Iraq have all been accompanied by large majorities, I would include Article 50 in that.

It was just nodded through, the House were not capable of studying detail or having any plan.

Really 'get it done' just shows that the UK basically does not know what it is doing.

Is it being hidden from the public just how bad this supposed 'deal' is?

It's been 3 years. It's hardly last minute. This process can't continue ad infinitum. If parliament passes it, that is that. At this stage, knowing everything I do now compared with 3 years ago, plus the amount of rejections there have been in parliament – if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 4.36pm
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 Well stop making up things then What are you suggesting I am making up? I explained that you only have to listen to people to understand that they didn't fully understand the complexities involved. I didn't and I bet you didn't either. Even those in the centre of government didn't so how were we supposed to? For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 4.36pm

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Well stop making up things then

What are you suggesting I am making up?

I explained that you only have to listen to people to understand that they didn't fully understand the complexities involved. I didn't and I bet you didn't either. Even those in the centre of government didn't so how were we supposed to?

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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cryrst The garden of England 11 Oct 19 4.54pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What are you suggesting I am making up? I explained that you only have to listen to people to understand that they didn't fully understand the complexities involved. I didn't and I bet you didn't either. Even those in the centre of government didn't so how were we supposed to? So you know the complexities going forwards about remaining then I guess!
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cryrst

The garden of England 11 Oct 19 4.54pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What are you suggesting I am making up?

So you know the complexities going forwards about remaining then I guess!

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 4.57pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 It's a huge problem this 'get it done' at all costs mentality. Once it has set in, people accept anything just to get it over the line. Particularly in parliament where disasters from Suez to Iraq have all been accompanied by large majorities, I would include Article 50 in that. It was just nodded through, the House were not capable of studying detail or having any plan. Really 'get it done' just shows that the UK basically does not know what it is doing. Is it being hidden from the public just how bad this supposed 'deal' is? Sorry to be cynical but I suspect it is all part of the political blame game strategy. Parliament hasn't even seen the details of the "take it or leave it" offer, which is now apparently being amended. The EU don't want to be seen to immediately throw water on it, but they will need time to allow all the member states to review the terms and do whatever internal consultations each needs. How can they really accept anything at this late stage? Apart from that Parliament is being given no time at all and they need it. The devil is always in the detail and no-one can be expected to be presented with something as complex as this, upon which the future of the country depends, and make a decision 24 hours later. It's just untenable. I suspect either the EU, or Parliament, will reject whatever comes out, perhaps saying that it forms the basis of something that could be built on with some careful detailed work. That might allow Johnson to "humbly and reluctantly" agree to an extension so he can then face the country with a good chance of winning a GE whilst blaming the EU and Parliament for the delay. All guesswork really though. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 4.57pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

It's a huge problem this 'get it done' at all costs mentality.

Once it has set in, people accept anything just to get it over the line.

Particularly in parliament where disasters from Suez to Iraq have all been accompanied by large majorities, I would include Article 50 in that.

It was just nodded through, the House were not capable of studying detail or having any plan.

Really 'get it done' just shows that the UK basically does not know what it is doing.

Is it being hidden from the public just how bad this supposed 'deal' is?

Sorry to be cynical but I suspect it is all part of the political blame game strategy. Parliament hasn't even seen the details of the "take it or leave it" offer, which is now apparently being amended. The EU don't want to be seen to immediately throw water on it, but they will need time to allow all the member states to review the terms and do whatever internal consultations each needs. How can they really accept anything at this late stage?

Apart from that Parliament is being given no time at all and they need it. The devil is always in the detail and no-one can be expected to be presented with something as complex as this, upon which the future of the country depends, and make a decision 24 hours later. It's just untenable.

I suspect either the EU, or Parliament, will reject whatever comes out, perhaps saying that it forms the basis of something that could be built on with some careful detailed work.

That might allow Johnson to "humbly and reluctantly" agree to an extension so he can then face the country with a good chance of winning a GE whilst blaming the EU and Parliament for the delay.

All guesswork really though.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Lyons550 Shirley 11 Oct 19 5.32pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 It's a huge problem this 'get it done' at all costs mentality. Once it has set in, people accept anything just to get it over the line. Particularly in parliament where disasters from Suez to Iraq have all been accompanied by large majorities, I would include Article 50 in that. It was just nodded through, the House were not capable of studying detail or having any plan. Really 'get it done' just shows that the UK basically does not know what it is doing. Is it being hidden from the public just how bad this supposed 'deal' is? No, it's more of a 'get it done' so we can move forward. No one has said or thinks it'll be a walk in the park..but NOTHING gets done by procrastinating. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 11 Oct 19 5.32pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

It's a huge problem this 'get it done' at all costs mentality.

Once it has set in, people accept anything just to get it over the line.

Particularly in parliament where disasters from Suez to Iraq have all been accompanied by large majorities, I would include Article 50 in that.

It was just nodded through, the House were not capable of studying detail or having any plan.

Really 'get it done' just shows that the UK basically does not know what it is doing.

Is it being hidden from the public just how bad this supposed 'deal' is?

No, it's more of a 'get it done' so we can move forward. No one has said or thinks it'll be a walk in the park..but NOTHING gets done by procrastinating.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Hrolf The Ganger 11 Oct 19 5.40pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Sorry to be cynical but I suspect it is all part of the political blame game strategy. Parliament hasn't even seen the details of the "take it or leave it" offer, which is now apparently being amended. The EU don't want to be seen to immediately throw water on it, but they will need time to allow all the member states to review the terms and do whatever internal consultations each needs. How can they really accept anything at this late stage? Apart from that Parliament is being given no time at all and they need it. The devil is always in the detail and no-one can be expected to be presented with something as complex as this, upon which the future of the country depends, and make a decision 24 hours later. It's just untenable. I suspect either the EU, or Parliament, will reject whatever comes out, perhaps saying that it forms the basis of something that could be built on with some careful detailed work. That might allow Johnson to "humbly and reluctantly" agree to an extension so he can then face the country with a good chance of winning a GE whilst blaming the EU and Parliament for the delay. All guesswork really though. Virtually everyone wants this concluded. Parliament will only reject a deal for party political reasons. You know that perfectly well. No extensions, no more referendums, no more judicial interference. Brexit now, deal or no deal.
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Hrolf The Ganger

11 Oct 19 5.40pm

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I suspect either the EU, or Parliament, will reject whatever comes out, perhaps saying that it forms the basis of something that could be built on with some careful detailed work.

That might allow Johnson to "humbly and reluctantly" agree to an extension so he can then face the country with a good chance of winning a GE whilst blaming the EU and Parliament for the delay.

All guesswork really though.

Virtually everyone wants this concluded. Parliament will only reject a deal for party political reasons. You know that perfectly well.

No extensions, no more referendums, no more judicial interference. Brexit now, deal or no deal.

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silvertop Portishead 11 Oct 19 6.00pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger What a lot of old baloney. Honestly discussing anything with you is like arguing with a child. When cornered the best you have is "no its not, so there!" From a grown man that is pitiful.
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silvertop

Portishead 11 Oct 19 6.00pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What a lot of old baloney.

Honestly discussing anything with you is like arguing with a child. When cornered the best you have is "no its not, so there!" From a grown man that is pitiful.

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Hrolf The Ganger 11 Oct 19 6.04pm
Originally posted by silvertop Honestly discussing anything with you is like arguing with a child. When cornered the best you have is "no its not, so there!" From a grown man that is pitiful. Better to be the child than the dummy.
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Hrolf The Ganger

11 Oct 19 6.04pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Honestly discussing anything with you is like arguing with a child. When cornered the best you have is "no its not, so there!" From a grown man that is pitiful.

Better to be the child than the dummy.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 8.36pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Virtually everyone wants this concluded. Parliament will only reject a deal for party political reasons. You know that perfectly well. No extensions, no more referendums, no more judicial interference. Brexit now, deal or no deal. Of course people want it concluded, but not at any price. Parliament will reject the deal if they consider it's not in the UK's best interests. I have no doubt that some will allow politics to be part of their thinking but I don't think that applies to very many. Unfortunately those that might are those leading the two major parties. You don't just give up because you are tired of trying. Success usually follows a series of failures. Losers quit. If it takes another try, or a new Parliament, to find the right solution then that's what we must do. We must take the time we need and not just accept something because it's on the table now. We know what you, and the ultra Brexiteers want, but that's not what a majority in Parliament want nor is it, in my opinion, what most in the country want. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 8.36pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Virtually everyone wants this concluded. Parliament will only reject a deal for party political reasons. You know that perfectly well.

No extensions, no more referendums, no more judicial interference. Brexit now, deal or no deal.

Of course people want it concluded, but not at any price. Parliament will reject the deal if they consider it's not in the UK's best interests. I have no doubt that some will allow politics to be part of their thinking but I don't think that applies to very many. Unfortunately those that might are those leading the two major parties.

You don't just give up because you are tired of trying. Success usually follows a series of failures. Losers quit. If it takes another try, or a new Parliament, to find the right solution then that's what we must do. We must take the time we need and not just accept something because it's on the table now. We know what you, and the ultra Brexiteers want, but that's not what a majority in Parliament want nor is it, in my opinion, what most in the country want.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 8.45pm
Originally posted by Lyons550 No, it's more of a 'get it done' so we can move forward. No one has said or thinks it'll be a walk in the park..but NOTHING gets done by procrastinating. Much better to do nothing than do something wrong. If it takes more time to get it right then we just need to accept that and sort it out. No-body is procrastinating in any way. They just won't accept an exit which they are sure will cause us avoidable harm. You might want to reflect why Johnson has waited this long before getting to this point. He is leaving Parliament almost no choice other than to reject whatever deal comes back, even if the EU do manage to approve it. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 8.45pm

Originally posted by Lyons550

No, it's more of a 'get it done' so we can move forward. No one has said or thinks it'll be a walk in the park..but NOTHING gets done by procrastinating.

Much better to do nothing than do something wrong. If it takes more time to get it right then we just need to accept that and sort it out. No-body is procrastinating in any way. They just won't accept an exit which they are sure will cause us avoidable harm.

You might want to reflect why Johnson has waited this long before getting to this point. He is leaving Parliament almost no choice other than to reject whatever deal comes back, even if the EU do manage to approve it.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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