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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 12.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
To you perhaps it does however the same logic applies as to Brexit, those who voted Remain, did you: 1. Vote for the status quo. This means the UK will continue to have a fractious relationship with the EU as we will be continually vetoing or requesting op outs as the direction of the EU is now quite clear.
3. Vote for something in the middle of the above. The EU is continuing to expand in countries and in the control it exerts over its members. Anybody who thinks we can carry on as before is naive. Remaining in meant the same to everyone. It was crystal clear. It meant not making any immediate changes. If in the future Parliament decided to join the Euro or Schengen areas or negotiate further opt outs, then that would doubtless spark a pretty lively debate and perhaps, who knows, another, hopefully clearly advisory, referendum. Such matters though are for future Parliaments to decide. The referendum result expressed no opinion on such things. Us keeping how we would remain, what we accept, what we reject and what we would persuade the EU to modify would be just a part of normal membership. Voting to leave was, at face value, just as straight forward. It's only when the detail crawled out that the devil became obvious. Old Nick had been hiding in the shadows obscured by rhetoric and ignorance. If we had voted to remain then all of this would have been a distant memory by now. Cameron would likely still be PM, Farage would still be bleating but his base would have tired of it because they would have no-where to go. Corbyn would have been replaced because the failure of the leftwards swing of the Labour Party would be seen as a disaster. It's only the swing to the right of the Tories that has given Labour a lift and re-energised the LibDems.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Spiderman Horsham 11 Oct 19 12.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Brexit inches ever closer to the scrap heap via a second referendum. Happy days. Watch the news today matey
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Badger11 Beckenham 11 Oct 19 12.52pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Remaining in meant the same to everyone. It was crystal clear. It meant not making any immediate changes. If in the future Parliament decided to join the Euro or Schengen areas or negotiate further opt outs, then that would doubtless spark a pretty lively debate and perhaps, who knows, another, hopefully clearly advisory, referendum. Such matters though are for future Parliaments to decide. The referendum result expressed no opinion on such things. Us keeping how we would remain, what we accept, what we reject and what we would persuade the EU to modify would be just a part of normal membership. Voting to leave was, at face value, just as straight forward. It's only when the detail crawled out that the devil became obvious. Old Nick had been hiding in the shadows obscured by rhetoric and ignorance. If we had voted to remain then all of this would have been a distant memory by now. Cameron would likely still be PM, Farage would still be bleating but his base would have tired of it because they would have no-where to go. Corbyn would have been replaced because the failure of the leftwards swing of the Labour Party would be seen as a disaster. It's only the swing to the right of the Tories that has given Labour a lift and re-energised the LibDems. Hmm a few big if's there. Not sure I agree that Labour is currently benefiting I think they're in turmoil I don't understand why the LIb Dems don't push for a GE when things calm down I suspect that many of their new voters may drift back to Labour so make hay whilst the sun-shines.
One more point |
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cryrst The garden of England 11 Oct 19 1.09pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Do you understand how a single transferable vote system works? In your example result, which I don't think is the most likely but let's run with it for the sake of argument, if either "deal" and "no deal" came top then "in" would be eliminated. The second preferences of those who voted "in" would then be counted to see which of the first two came top. As "deal" would almost certainly be the preference of most people who voted "in" it would be the final choice. Only if "no deal" got over 50%, or very close to 50%, before the second preference of "in" were counted would it succeed. I don't think that's very likely. I think the same result is likely in just about every scenario, with the only other possibility being that "in" might succeed before the second preference of an eliminated "no deal" choice were transferred. As the chances of "in" succeeding must though be higher in a straight binary choice between "no deal" and "in" I would have thought a 3 way choice with a much higher chance of a "deal" result would have a greater appeal to Brexiteers. remain would beat both deals being no deal and a deal singularly and that's the point.
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 11 Oct 19 1.19pm | |
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We could be more than back on. I wonder who has blinked and and why. It’s all gone into private meetings and phone calls between Boris and Merkel and Boris and Leo, who’s probably getting social media abuse as I hear they’re calling him Boratkar or Boradkar or something.
COYP |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 1.50pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
remain would beat both deals being no deal and a deal singularly and that's the point. As what I am suggesting would produce exactly the same result as what you are, but without the need for the cost, trouble or delay of another referendum then what would be the point? That's the purpose of a single transferable vote system. It ought to be used for GEs too so that a majority of the people feel they have voted, in some way, for the final choice. Having governments formed by first past the post often results in only 35% of the people choosing who they are. That's one of the primary reasons people have lost confidence in our Parliamentary system.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Hrolf The Ganger 11 Oct 19 2.09pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As what I am suggesting would produce exactly the same result as what you are, but without the need for the cost, trouble or delay of another referendum then what would be the point? That's the purpose of a single transferable vote system. It ought to be used for GEs too so that a majority of the people feel they have voted, in some way, for the final choice. Having governments formed by first past the post often results in only 35% of the people choosing who they are. That's one of the primary reasons people have lost confidence in our Parliamentary system. You will be posting to yourself soon Wisbech. Your Remain propaganda is beyond soporific.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 3.02pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You will be posting to yourself soon Wisbech. Your Remain propaganda is beyond soporific. What on earth has my last post got to do with "remain" let alone being "propaganda"? It was solely about the single transferable vote system and how it might actually benefit those who want to leave. However if it sends you to sleep then I am happy for you. I am knee deep in my tax returns and it's having the same effect.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Hrolf The Ganger 11 Oct 19 3.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
What on earth has my last post got to do with "remain" let alone being "propaganda"? It was solely about the single transferable vote system and how it might actually benefit those who want to leave. However if it sends you to sleep then I am happy for you. I am knee deep in my tax returns and it's having the same effect. Yawn. Second referendums? Boring. We will get a last minute deal and then Labour will risk political obliteration if they vote it down. The vast majority of people want this concluded now. Only Remainers in Parliament and a few dogmatic loons want to drag this out longer.
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 11 Oct 19 3.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Yawn. Second referendums? Boring. We will get a last minute deal and then Labour will risk political obliteration if they vote it down. The vast majority of people want this concluded now. Only Remainers in Parliament and a few dogmatic loons want to drag this out longer. Agreed, seems the most likely scenario.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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dannyboy1978 11 Oct 19 3.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
How do I know? Yes it was a simple question. Which is the whole problem. Complex matters cannot be answered with a simple yes, or no to a simple question. Well stop making up things then
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Ketteridge Brighton 11 Oct 19 3.39pm | |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
How do you know?
One supporter of hacking argued that without it "you will do away with the courage and pluck of the game, and I will be bound to bring over a lot of Frenchmen who would beat you with a week's practice -Blackheath secretary at first meeting of the F.A |
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