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| steve1984 03 Dec 18 11.31pm | |
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I'm a Croydoner, English, British, European and one of May's citizens of nowhere. But yes Palace often takes precedence, especially tomorrow,
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 dannyboy1978  04 Dec 18 7.31am |
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Originally posted by steve1984
transient, temporary, brief, short, short-lived, short-term, impermanent, ephemeral, evanescent, momentary, fleeting, flying, passing, fugitive. Britain is changing, it is always changing. But it won't cease to exist. In fact I would argue that after we've emerged from this period of utter s*** the country will be appreciably stronger - economically, socially and politically. Ironically it was you who said that the country is lost but it's me whose vision of the country is transient? Remainers are also British. We also have British identities. But they're different to yours. We have a different relationship with our country. That's all. And yes Palace is an important part of my identity. Some of my roots are at Selhurst Park and just like you I'll be biting my nails tomorrow night. Edited by steve1984 (03 Dec 2018 11.09pm) Your taking the piss right?
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| Stirlingsays 04 Dec 18 10.54am |
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Originally posted by steve1984
I'm a Croydoner, English, British, European and one of May's citizens of nowhere. But yes Palace often takes precedence, especially tomorrow, Croydon....a region of London in England. The only real nationality on there is English. You believe that being English will survive within the context of being a citizen of nowhere.....I think that is highly naivete. It's paradoxical to claim that you are both a citizen of nowhere and then a specific nationality. It's people like me and the various people on these boards who will really keep the identity alive. How you describe it....its like a cloak of convenience to place on when it's useful or beneficial.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| steve1984 04 Dec 18 11.37am | |
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I don't place too much significance upon nationality either my own or other people's. Cultures adapt. Yes even Islamic culture. You can't put a brake on change by pulling up the drawbridge Hrolf style. If you do that, then you're going to get problems. My nationality and my identity can't be taken off and put back on again like a convenient cloak. They are both an integral part of who I am. But like I said my sense of Englishness is undoubtedly different to yours. However it seems like you believe that yours is more valid than mine. That's quite a value judgement. I wouldn't dare say that my sense of Englishnesses is superior to yours because it isn't. I felt English the entire time I was abroad. In fact living abroad only strengthened my sense of English identity because it brought into sharper relief the differences between where I grew up and where I was living. But at no stage did it make me feel superior. Yes some things about England and being English seemed better and some things not. There's nothing inherently better or worse about the French or the Germans, the Japanese or indeed the English for that matter. Furthermore being English three hundred years ago meant something utterly different to what it means today. All this bulls*** about "our values" is just that. I never met or even heard of a single group of people who want anything other than freedom, prosperity and security. If you don't feel free, prosperous or secure then blame the people who failed to deliver on those things. That wasn't me and neither was it the foreign immigrants. Treat the causes not the symptoms.
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| steve1984 04 Dec 18 11.43am | |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
Your taking the piss right? No I don't think that and neither did I say that. Originally posted by dannyboy1978
Socially we have cities that arnt integrating Yes we do but that will take time. Originally posted by dannyboy1978
And politicaly we have a two party weak can't even do brexit parties, Also true and that will be the first change that we should see once this s*** storm has blown over. The mess that the tories have made "in the interests of the British people" will destroy the tory party. It will need to change.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 04 Dec 18 11.53am |
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Originally posted by steve1984
I don't place too much significance upon nationality either my own or other people's. Cultures adapt. Yes even Islamic culture. You can't put a brake on change by pulling up the drawbridge Hrolf style. If you do that, then you're going to get problems. My nationality and my identity can't be taken off and put back on again like a convenient cloak. They are both an integral part of who I am. But like I said my sense of Englishness is undoubtedly different to yours. However it seems like you believe that yours is more valid than mine. That's quite a value judgement. I wouldn't dare say that my sense of Englishnesses is superior to yours because it isn't. I felt English the entire time I was abroad. In fact living abroad only strengthened my sense of English identity because it brought into sharper relief the differences between where I grew up and where I was living. But at no stage did it make me feel superior. Yes some things about England and being English seemed better and some things not. There's nothing inherently better or worse about the French or the Germans, the Japanese or indeed the English for that matter. Furthermore being English three hundred years ago meant something utterly different to what it means today. All this bulls*** about "our values" is just that. I never met or even heard of a single group of people who want anything other than freedom, prosperity and security. If you don't feel free, prosperous or secure then blame the people who failed to deliver on those things. That wasn't me and neither was it the foreign immigrants. Treat the causes not the symptoms. Ha. So you are concerned about potential problems that don't actually exist yet but want to turn a blind eye to the many problems that now exist because of mass immigration and the ones that will definitely happen as a result of overpopulation. What kind of logic is that? What are these problems you speak of? How will limiting immigration to a healthy trickle and keeping out undesirable culture create problems exactly?
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| Stirlingsays 04 Dec 18 12.16pm |
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Originally posted by steve1984
I don't place too much significance upon nationality either my own or other people's. That's very evident....but I believe that ultimately all that ends with is your children or their children being forced to adopt one anyway. Those who don't define themselves can only exist within cultures that fought for that....and people only fight...in large numbers for a communal identity and self interest. Your approach is a weakness. Originally posted by steve1984
Cultures adapt. Yes even Islamic culture. You can't put a brake on change by pulling up the drawbridge Hrolf style. If you do that, then you're going to get problems. Islamic cultures adapt? Yes, I don't think they are stoning in Iran....No wait, it does still happen. Problems.....Not in Japan, Poland and your much criticised Hungary (where your criticisms aren't really about this point). How is their lives made better by losing their identity....or making it a joke identity like a cloak of convenience. Please tell me what these terrible problems would be? Because I can tell you something for certain. There would be lots of young boys and girls alive now who wouldn't have been bombed and gunned down by an Islamic extremist at a Manchester concert. Yea, the Japanese and Chinese and Polish and others must be just pining for those advances. You present yourself as a Justin Trudeau figure....'today, I'm going to be an Indian'....'tomorrow, I'm going to be, 'insert nationality'' Originally posted by steve1984
My nationality and my identity can't be taken off and put back on again like a convenient cloak. They are both an integral part of who I am.
Originally posted by steve1984
But like I said my sense of Englishness is undoubtedly different to yours. However it seems like you believe that yours is more valid than mine. That's quite a value judgement. I wouldn't dare say that my sense of Englishnesses is superior to yours because it isn't. No, you're English....when you want to be. Do I value how you treat your nationality....nope. It only benefits you....it's meaningless.....You might as well change it to something that means something.....Mind you, as you state here nationality doesn't to you. Originally posted by steve1984
I felt English the entire time I was abroad. In fact living abroad only strengthened my sense of English identity because it brought into sharper relief the differences between where I grew up and where I was living. But at no stage did it make me feel superior. Yes some things about England and being English seemed better and some things not. There's nothing inherently better or worse about the French or the Germans, the Japanese or indeed the English for that matter. It's a strawman to refer to having an identity and then talk about 'superiority'.....also kind of amusing as just a few posts ago you were talking about your children speaking three languages...which not all children would be able to do.....it appeared that you valued 'superiority' but just within your own context. Being German or whatever means you value that identity. If you geniuenly value it then you wish to protect it......'superiority!'....pull me a new one. Originally posted by steve1984
Furthermore being English three hundred years ago meant something utterly different to what it means today. All this bulls*** about "our values" is just that. I never met or even heard of a single group of people who want anything other than freedom, prosperity and security. If you don't feel free, prosperous or secure then blame the people who failed to deliver on those things. That wasn't me and neither was it the foreign immigrants. Treat the causes not the symptoms.
What you refer to here is entirely cultural and not an intrinsic element of humanity at all.....there are around about 1.6 billion Muslims and probably about half would agree with you......God knows how many Chinese and most of them wouldn't quite sign up to your ideas either.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Attachment: | steve1984 04 Dec 18 12.25pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
How will limiting immigration to a healthy trickle and keeping out undesirable culture create problems exactly? Because according to you at least the country already has too many immigrants and so you're proposing to shut the stable door after the horse bolted. I might also add that we have always enjoyed full control over immigration from outside the EU from whence came 99.9% of those you describe as having an undesirable culture. But in the final analysis if you genuinely consider moslems to be undesirable then we're never gonna agree on anything much.
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 04 Dec 18 12.31pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
And your solution is? Be proactive. Lower the drawbridge once in a while rather than slowly turning translucent due to lack of natural light. You're wallowing in your own pit of rage. It's not healthy.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| DanH SW2 04 Dec 18 12.33pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Croydon....a region of London in England. The only real nationality on there is English. You believe that being English will survive within the context of being a citizen of nowhere.....I think that is highly naivete. It's paradoxical to claim that you are both a citizen of nowhere and then a specific nationality. How you describe it....its like a cloak of convenience to place on when it's useful or beneficial. What a sanctimonious, arrogant, bullsh*t statement.
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| steve1984 04 Dec 18 12.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I assume that would be the same Iran which in the 1970s was ruled by a despotic, mass murdering, corrupt dictator who was installed in his position and maintained there by the governments of the United States and Britain in the interest of who exactly? Certainly not the Iranians, that's for sure.
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| Stirlingsays 04 Dec 18 12.36pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
What a sanctimonious, arrogant, bullsh*t statement.
Hypocrite.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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