Who is up for tearing down the monuments to Karl Marx?

In the west there is one in the town of this birth that his council accepted as a gift from China and of course we have one at his grave.

I'm not....because I'm not a hypocrite. But I guess if you are being a 'progressive' you would need to be consistent.

The guy started an ideology that has resulted in millions of deaths.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Aug 2017 12.13am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Weird that people go out and protest a 'free speech' rally but there you go. Waving things about Nazis at a rally that doesn't have them and was organised around recent attacks on free speech. The BBC....publicly funded as we know reported this as some kind of good thing...that free speech is being protested.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Aug 2017 12.33am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I think you are misusing that argument. Especially when you apply it to a post about a 'free speech' rally.

Tolerance is about respecting the law. You have opinions and then you have actions. No one is asking people to tolerant people who break the law.

Also Nick, learn some history about Hitler. He wasn't tolerated at all. In fact the actions you appear to support....fighting Nazis....that's what happened. Plenty of Nazi supporters were killed on his rise and he was thrown in prison. That's what increased their support.

Unless people start starving in the streets people aren't going to be turning to antifa or nazis in any significant numbers at all. However, publicity over events in the last weeks is enough to raise their numbers and ensure more violence. Ultimately it's going to result in the rise of rival social media companies and more division.

There is no 'winning' here.

The free speech rallies being held over America are an important response to the real attacks on opinion happening by 'progressive' companies who hold near monopolies on public expression.

Anyone planning violence needs to be arrested. If someone wants to walk about holding a flag then people have the right to protest that.....peacefully.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Aug 2017 2.17am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I think money is filtered through to various groups on the left and right in order to inflame the situation further. Much of it likely from inside the states, some from outside. If I was Russia and China I'd find ways to fund every nutty group going just so that destablise the society of a rival.

You're right though, there must be common values and goals that can be achieved. That way the other stuff will die down. It can be hard to detach from the more combative side of politics, I'm bad for it too, but that pattern of behaviour doesn't really achieve anything. People finding a combined purpose detached from the status quo is probably most politicians worst nightmare.

What I mean is, 'free speech rally' tells you nothing. It could've meant an attempt to educate about free speech.. or possibly views from the entire spectrum left and right. I was giving people background on the types of views and indeed violence linked to some of these individuals, so that they understand the context of why tens of thousands of people would also exercise their freedom of speech at the same time.

Freedom of speech isn't freedom to deprive 30,000 other people opposing your view of theirs. That applies to whatever someone believes as long as people aren't being violent, or trespassing or breaking the law in some other way. It's the only workable way. Just because you have a rally it doesn't mean you get to wave a magic wand and silence mass opinion. I don't agree if it was called off early, but that decision is down to the police.

Edited by wordup (20 Aug 2017 4.40am)

I'm not sure that you get to decide what flags people hold up or where they protest as long as they are breaking no law and are non violent. That applies to anyone who wants to protest, whatever their politics. 'Don't hold this flag, don't protest here..' So much for Freedom of Speech, haha.

The idea that what appears to amount to about 50 people should be able to eliminate the freedom of speech of 30,000 around them sounds quite fanciful. This isn't Harry Potter. In your continued 'progressives' meltdown, it now appears you've become a huge advocate of anyone right wing with a megaphone being able to command pin drop silence for miles around.

The speakers had a very large area around them, so were not impeded. People were not in their faces as they spoke, they were a fair distance away and respectfully remained so. They were not 'drowned out' by anyone. When they left many actually walked right through the crowds 99% without incident which would appear to fly in the face of this idea of a baying mob. Being that the police said it went 99% without incident too, it would seem to me to be a text book example of how to get it right.

If someone was in their faces drowning them out then fair enough, it's a different situation. Where that happens the individuals should be removed. It didn't happen here though.

The speaking schedule was packed with white supremacist speakers until the last minute so considering what's happened last week, this protest is hardly a surprising turn of events. When we think back to what the 'protesters' in Charlottesville achieved, well maybe you could've showed more of your energy and passion to the violence and fatality caused there instead of this peaceful non event.

Edited by wordup (20 Aug 2017 6.09am)