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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 10 Nov 16 9.10pm | |
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Originally posted by blackpalacefan
Pence is more bats*** crazy with his religious beliefs than either of them and he's very near to the presidency. There have been quite a few US Presidents who've openly believed in the Christian God, you know. Probably most of them, in fact.
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blackpalacefan 10 Nov 16 9.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
There have been quite a few US Presidents who've openly believed in the Christian God, you know. Probably most of them, in fact. I'm not bothered if a person has religious beliefs, most Americans do. I said he's bats*** crazy with his religious reliefs'. He believes that HIV funding should be cut off because it "encourage the types of behaviours that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus" and should be transfered to 'gay cure therapy'. Such zero science, ill conceived ideas are not the stuff of reasoned thought. There is no angle by which you can add respectability to it. His position on womens role in society is equally awful.
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JohnyBoy 10 Nov 16 9.20pm | |
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Originally posted by NickinOX
I am an ex-pat in the US. I grew up in the UK, and emigrated as an adult. Hillary is not charismatic, and that is a big part of her lack of national appeal. Scandal after scandal has degraded her standing over thirty years in the public eye. She has offered no vision, instead listing policies and plans without really connecting to the average voter. Furthermore, the Democratic party has allowed itself to become dominated by wealthy elites who have little connection to the party's core support. Surprisingly, perhaps, far more Republicans seem at home with poor people than do many top Democrats, and the latter tend to talk down to the working classes: telling what they should and should not want and need. Re. Hillary's "basket of deplorable" comment. That was taken worse than Romney's "40% don't pay tax and won't ever vote Republican" comment. Throw in the fact that she will switch support for issues and ideas at the first sign of unpopularity, and people don't think she can be trusted. The more recent leaking of emails has not helped, as they have shown many of the assumptions about the Democratic Primaries being rigged against Sanders to be true. The suspicions about her email server look more worrying when emails showing she knew perfectly well why she wanted a private server, came to light. She wanted to hide stuff. Therefore, it is perhaps no surprise that large numbers of Bernie's supporters simply did not vote for her. They wanted change, transparency, honesty, and the best she could offer was more of the same, without the charisma. The electorate across the political spectrum has been crying out for an outsider for the last dozen years. Witness the Tea Party which started out as a narrow single issue party and grew from there. It was composed of mostly disaffected voters who felt they had been marginalized by the political system. In many ways they were right. When they were spoken to, particularly by the left, they were ridiculed, maligned, and discounted. This last year or two has seen two outsiders do really well in the primaries and election: Sanders and Trump. Much of what they were saying is quite similar: i.e. you've been screwed by the man, DC and the old guard look after their own, I can be your champion. So, when the election came up, many of my Republican friends decided not to vote, or to vote for a third party candidate as a protest. From the analysis of the election, 5-10m Democrats did not show up to vote. The weather was good, there were no real problems of access to voting, yet they did not show up and support her. Republican numbers were down, but third party candidates got the largest share of the vote in ages. She still failed to win. Not only that, but Republicans now control both houses too. That's a damning indictment of the Democratic party's last eight years. Economically, the economy is growing very slowly and many of the new jobs are at the lower end of the food chain. Medical costs have gone up massively, and quite a lot of people lost their healthcare coverage because of Obamacare. That has driven up costs for ordinary working people, without solving the problem of lack of health insurance. Thus, there are still many people who are unemployed or underemployed. The problem of immigration has not gone away, and that has had an effect on wages at the bottom of the scale. Democrats seem to have focused on ethnic minorities and not on blue collar whites. Whether that perception is wholly true, is immaterial. It certainly looks like that. Add in a focus on things such as transgender rights for kids, etc., and you have a large part of the population wondering what on earth the Democratic party is thinking. It spends a huge amount of time on a few hot button emotive topics whilst not paying attention to Syria, problems with China, Russia, the economy, jobs, immigration, etc. It's no wonder ordinary blue collar voters have stopped voting for them, or for voting for anyone calling for changes in the status quo. As Nickgusset mentioned, Trump and Sanders are similar in many ways. Good post Nick, has defo helped me understand the situation
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Hrolf The Ganger 10 Nov 16 9.41pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
There have been quite a few US Presidents who've openly believed in the Christian God, you know. Probably most of them, in fact. Claim to.
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Part Time James 10 Nov 16 9.44pm | |
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Originally posted by Superfly
I have a violent temper, am mostly incomprehensible, as tight as a ducks chuff, deep fry my heroin and have early symptoms of liver failure. Any good? I hate to break it to you, but you might be a Millwall fan.
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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 10 Nov 16 9.45pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Claim to. You miss my point. It was seen as normal and utterly unremarkable.
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blackpalacefan 10 Nov 16 9.55pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
You miss my point. It was seen as normal and utterly unremarkable. It still is utterly unremarkable to be a Christian President or VP, in fact it is more of a prerequisite. I wasn't criticising someone being religious, I was saying that he's at the extreme end of the spectrum, with many religious conservates backing away from some of his more 'choice' views about abortion and the like. It's kind of irrelevant anyway as he wasn't Trump's first choice, he wanted Christie, it was more of a strategic choice to win over voters. As long as Trump remains healthy I doubt he'll have much influence. Edited by blackpalacefan (10 Nov 2016 9.58pm)
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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 10 Nov 16 9.58pm | |
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Originally posted by blackpalacefan
It still is utterly unremarkable to be a Christian President or VP, in fact it is more of a prerequisite. I wasn't criticising someone being religious, I was saying that even in modern America he's at the extreme end of the spectrum, with many religious conservates even backing away from some of his more 'choice' views about abortion and the like. What, like being opposed to it? Hardly a niche viewpoint.
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blackpalacefan 10 Nov 16 10.02pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
What, like being opposed to it? Hardly a niche viewpoint. If you ask your own question then answer it, you might not require my answer but I'll give it anyway. There are many different views in the US religious community regarding abortion. It's not a check box system. Some believe that rape victims should be forced to go through with their pregnancies, and that if the feutus has extreme abnormalities or will die shortly after birth that it should still be illegal to have an abortion. Others do not believe that. Edited by blackpalacefan (10 Nov 2016 10.21pm)
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Kermit8 Hevon 10 Nov 16 10.54pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You are really just clouding the argument. The referendum was for the whole of Britain. Although advisory, Scotland entered into it in good faith following a Scottish referendum on independence. The people knew that a vote for the Union followed by a vote for Brexit would mean the whole of Britain, they just didn't expect that result. Feeble. Ok you need some help here. The SNP voted against the Parliamentary Act for the Referendum in the House of Commons. They did not enter Scotland 'in good faith'. They had to legally. They now, possibly, have the legal right to put Brexit proposals before the Scottish Parliament. They are exploring if they can very soon. And If successful they can they can block things that the Scottish people don't agree with. It's going to be all above board if it happens. But no doubt there will whining and bitching from those who go on about the importance of democracy even though that's exactly what will be happening in its purest form in Holyrood. Imagine, for example, for a country to leave the EU the whole of the EU could vote on it. The Country votes 62% to Leave but when all the votes are tallied from other countries Remain wins overall. Wouldn't be fair would it? It would be democratic - the people who have a right to vote have voted - but it wouldn't be fair. Then, the country discovers it can take the decision back to its own Parliament to enforce the will of its own people. Hoorah - victory! That's the very similar scenario for Scotland being played out now. They didn't want the referendum in the first place. I, for one, hope they - the people- succeed. Edited by Kermit8 (10 Nov 2016 11.07pm)
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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 11 Nov 16 9.49am | |
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
patronising my *rse ... you don't have to be a pseudo intellectual bleeding heart liberal to be depressed at having a psycho pussy grabber as president. Either introduce an IQ test to disbar brainless freaks from voting or have some jury service element brought into democracy ... old fashioned REPRESENTATIVE democracy is failing, it's being subverted by a conspiracy of evil jokers and morons. I like and respect thoughtful open-minded people from whatever class thy choose to be identified with, but sod democracy - Trumpers should all definitely be shot - not all Brexiteers mind, just most of them But then how would you cast your vote ?
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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We are goin up! Coulsdon 11 Nov 16 10.33am | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Ok you need some help here. The SNP voted against the Parliamentary Act for the Referendum in the House of Commons. They did not enter Scotland 'in good faith'. They had to legally. They now, possibly, have the legal right to put Brexit proposals before the Scottish Parliament. They are exploring if they can very soon. And If successful they can they can block things that the Scottish people don't agree with. It's going to be all above board if it happens. But no doubt there will whining and bitching from those who go on about the importance of democracy even though that's exactly what will be happening in its purest form in Holyrood. Imagine, for example, for a country to leave the EU the whole of the EU could vote on it. The Country votes 62% to Leave but when all the votes are tallied from other countries Remain wins overall. Wouldn't be fair would it? It would be democratic - the people who have a right to vote have voted - but it wouldn't be fair. Then, the country discovers it can take the decision back to its own Parliament to enforce the will of its own people. Hoorah - victory! That's the very similar scenario for Scotland being played out now. They didn't want the referendum in the first place. I, for one, hope they - the people- succeed. Edited by Kermit8 (10 Nov 2016 11.07pm)
The EU referendum was to decide if the UK, not Scotland, remained part of the European Union. It really is that simple.
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. |
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