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eritheagle Erith 30 Sep 20 11.53am | |
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Originally posted by The Dolphin
I have to say that unless they change this farce then I am not sure I will go back. Totally agree with you! Out of all the goals we scored at home last season I think I only celebrated the penalty from Luka, PVA’s free kick and Ayew’s v West Ham with any confidence that they wouldn’t be chalked off.
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steven_t92 Orpington 30 Sep 20 12.08pm | |
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Nothing wrong with VAR apart from when it has to follow stupid laws to give so many decisions that appear dodgy to everyone. The laws of the game are dodgy, the guy in charge of the VAR for each game is left to the wolves when he gets the blame for putting into action what FIFA tell him lol
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eritheagle Erith 30 Sep 20 12.31pm | |
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Originally posted by steven_t92
Nothing wrong with VAR apart from when it has to follow stupid laws to give so many decisions that appear dodgy to everyone. The laws of the game are dodgy, the guy in charge of the VAR for each game is left to the wolves when he gets the blame for putting into action what FIFA tell him lol That’s why I don’t think refs are giving some decisions until they are recommended to go look at the monitors. It then deflects the attention from them as they probably don’t agree with the rule changes anyway.
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roman eagle South London 30 Sep 20 5.02pm | |
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On a point of information, it is the International Football Association Board (IFAB) that is the law-making body, not FIFA. IFAB (1886) predates FIFA (1904), although FIFA has representation on IFAB. IFAB has 8 members, four from FIFA and one each from the Football Association of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. For any motion to be passed there has to be a three-quarters majority ie 6 out of 8, so effectively the UK football associations have a veto on any motion, as does FIFA. Regarding the current controversy, the problem arises from the desire to have a definition of 'deliberate' so there is consistency across the world. Previously referees were the judge of whether handball was deliberate or not. But unfortunately this raises other issues, primarily what is an 'un-natural' position for a hand/arm. Hence we get situations like the Ward handball, and the week before the Lindelof handball. Under the previous guidance neither of these would have been given. So effectively there is a much lower bar for a handball offence now, and the FA did warn that there would be more penalties as a result this season. Nothing is going to change until IFAB meets next spring but in the meantime Roy is correct in saying that managers, coaches, players and the like should make their voices heard in opposition to the way the guidance on the law has changed.
Audentis fortuna iuvat (Virgil, 19BC) |
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uncleneal Croydon 01 Oct 20 7.51am | |
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Originally posted by roman eagle
On a point of information, it is the International Football Association Board (IFAB) that is the law-making body, not FIFA. IFAB (1886) predates FIFA (1904), although FIFA has representation on IFAB. IFAB has 8 members, four from FIFA and one each from the Football Association of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. For any motion to be passed there has to be a three-quarters majority ie 6 out of 8, so effectively the UK football associations have a veto on any motion, as does FIFA. Regarding the current controversy, the problem arises from the desire to have a definition of 'deliberate' so there is consistency across the world. Previously referees were the judge of whether handball was deliberate or not. But unfortunately this raises other issues, primarily what is an 'un-natural' position for a hand/arm. Hence we get situations like the Ward handball, and the week before the Lindelof handball. Under the previous guidance neither of these would have been given. So effectively there is a much lower bar for a handball offence now, and the FA did warn that there would be more penalties as a result this season. Nothing is going to change until IFAB meets next spring but in the meantime Roy is correct in saying that managers, coaches, players and the like should make their voices heard in opposition to the way the guidance on the law has changed.
The handball is not about being seen but the interpretation that it is handball. The Man U decision was harsh, the Joel Ward one is simply wrong and the Spurs one is downright pathetic. The Brighton one is correct and that is a clear benefit of having VAR. Would be good if the refs told us how they came to the decision I.e. does Friend think that Ward’s hand is in an unnatural position? Maybe that would cause more debate but the authorities could than see how the refs are thinking.
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Badger11 Beckenham 01 Oct 20 8.24am | |
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Originally posted by roman eagle
On a point of information, it is the International Football Association Board (IFAB) that is the law-making body, not FIFA. IFAB (1886) predates FIFA (1904), although FIFA has representation on IFAB. IFAB has 8 members, four from FIFA and one each from the Football Association of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. For any motion to be passed there has to be a three-quarters majority ie 6 out of 8, so effectively the UK football associations have a veto on any motion, as does FIFA. Regarding the current controversy, the problem arises from the desire to have a definition of 'deliberate' so there is consistency across the world. Previously referees were the judge of whether handball was deliberate or not. But unfortunately this raises other issues, primarily what is an 'un-natural' position for a hand/arm. Hence we get situations like the Ward handball, and the week before the Lindelof handball. Under the previous guidance neither of these would have been given. So effectively there is a much lower bar for a handball offence now, and the FA did warn that there would be more penalties as a result this season. Nothing is going to change until IFAB meets next spring but in the meantime Roy is correct in saying that managers, coaches, players and the like should make their voices heard in opposition to the way the guidance on the law has changed. A ridiculous committee, Northern Ireland a giant in world football has a big say in technology it can't afford to implement whilst those pesky minnows Germany and Brazil don't. This is a hangover from when we invented the game and needs to be reformed. The obvious solution is to have a committee made up of the 6 federations. Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland having a vote on this committee is why they are against a GB team for women or under 23's. They believe that a GB team at any level will eventually mean they lose their vote, FIFA should put them out of their misery and reform the committee and throw all of the home nations off it. I suspect if this happened their objections to a GB team will disappear.
One more point |
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roman eagle South London 01 Oct 20 9.40am | |
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You can read up on the membership of IFAB here [Link] Despite all of this accumulated wisdom they’ve managed to make a mess of the handball law. Again I go back to Roy - if the player does it deliberately it’s a penalty, if it hits his hand it’s not. The most ridiculous penalty given this season was the Dier penalty - he actually had his back to the ball so had no idea where the ball was - surely this can’t be what IFAB intended. This makes a mockery of the law and is not a good advert for the game because fairness is a basic principle of football and that is blatantly unfair.
Audentis fortuna iuvat (Virgil, 19BC) |
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roman eagle South London 01 Oct 20 10.06am | |
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Just read this on the Beeb [Link]
Audentis fortuna iuvat (Virgil, 19BC) |
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crystal-purley Purley 01 Oct 20 1.13pm | |
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Originally posted by roman eagle
You can read up on the membership of IFAB here [Link] Despite all of this accumulated wisdom they’ve managed to make a mess of the handball law. Again I go back to Roy - if the player does it deliberately it’s a penalty, if it hits his hand it’s not. The most ridiculous penalty given this season was the Dier penalty - he actually had his back to the ball so had no idea where the ball was - surely this can’t be what IFAB intended. This makes a mockery of the law and is not a good advert for the game because fairness is a basic principle of football and that is blatantly unfair. part of the rule used to be that if the ball ended up favourably to the handler then it was a foul on the other hand (no pun) if it didn't then play on. Rehashing this might have stopped the Lindelof, Ward and Dier fiascos which might cause cuts in money at the end of the season.
Enjoying getting up later and not having someone who knows better than me (apart from the missus of course). |
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CrazyBadger Ware 01 Oct 20 1.50pm | |
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Originally posted by roman eagle
You can read up on the membership of IFAB here [Link] Despite all of this accumulated wisdom they’ve managed to make a mess of the handball law. Again I go back to Roy - if the player does it deliberately it’s a penalty, if it hits his hand it’s not. The most ridiculous penalty given this season was the Dier penalty - he actually had his back to the ball so had no idea where the ball was - surely this can’t be what IFAB intended. This makes a mockery of the law and is not a good advert for the game because fairness is a basic principle of football and that is blatantly unfair. I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this. Of The 4 handball decisions; Lindlehoff, Maupay Ward and Dier. I would say Diers one the only one where it could have actually been a penalty. Having your back to the ball is not a defence. Just because you cannot see the ball, does not stop you from intentionally putting your body in a position where handling the ball is likely. Same with this notion that the proximity should be taken into account. No! If I were to run at you arms streched, like a goalkeeper, and if you kicked it when I was 'only' one metre away, then that's handball.
"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one" |
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samprior Hamburg 01 Oct 20 6.39pm | |
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It's clearly ruffled some important feathers as interpretation is to be changed for the next set of matches. Thank goodness. You'll obviously not eradicate all dodgy pens but this will hopefully reduce the amount of nonsense decisions that we've been seeing... just a shame it wasn't in place last week.
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Eaglecoops CR3 01 Oct 20 10.29pm | |
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Originally posted by CrazyBadger
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this. Of The 4 handball decisions; Lindlehoff, Maupay Ward and Dier. I would say Diers one the only one where it could have actually been a penalty. Having your back to the ball is not a defence. Just because you cannot see the ball, does not stop you from intentionally putting your body in a position where handling the ball is likely. Same with this notion that the proximity should be taken into account. No! If I were to run at you arms streched, like a goalkeeper, and if you kicked it when I was 'only' one metre away, then that's handball. Thank feck you are not a referee. You’re not are you?
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