Its the dark issue of diplomacy. Pragmatic reality. Usually there is a very good reason why hardline brutal dictators are in power and last in power. Its because the only thing that keeps the country together is the presence of the biggest b****** at the top.

Libya and Iraq are very good examples of this, because they're really only countries that existed as a result of empire and then 'liberation movements' that established hardline dictators - that more or less deliver security and a reasonable peace or period of relative prosperity (at least for the ruling elite).

However these also tend to be ridiculously corrupt, and positions of power and authority often require 'membership of the elite ruling club', either directly or by buying in.

This tends to mean that a rapid change in government, such as in Libya or Iraq, also results in a sudden role reversal of everyone capable of 'running the country and keeping the lights on' - and they tend to either be murdered, persecuted, convicted or flee the country.

Its the curse of revolutions. You tend to lose the people who make the country work, and replace them with people who only know how to fight (and if you don't find jobs for the revolutionaries you're left with an even worse situation, where you might have 10,000 potential guerrilla fighters, without jobs, in a country they've only recently overthrown.

Everyone thinks its 'quite simple' to run a country - Its not. It requires a lot of special and often arcane knowledge, the kind of which you don't acquire quickly.

Imagine having to reverse engineer the UK Civil Service and Council Service. Something that exists in the minds and knowledge and interactions of some 200.000 people, that touches on every aspect of a country with intimate understanding of how it actually functions (rather than how it should).

No one thinks of these things, because we take them for granted. But just keeping the power on is a monumental undertaking in most nations, require tens of thousands of people, working in unison, with different skill sets, that have been developed and cultivated over the decades or a century of refinement and shared knowledge, that only exists within those people.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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Little known fact is that UK ranks second behind USA in terms of global arms industry sales... to such places as Libya; Syria and Iraq whom we've actively sold to in the past.

Makes you feel proud to be British, eh?

My area, so anything on the military or dual use UK strategic export control listings, needs a strategic export licence.

What the government does, good or bad, has little impact upon how I feel about my nation.

I'm very proud to be English and then British....then European and then Western.

I realise that I'm very lucky to be born here and have the privileges that come with it. It's partly why I'm protective of them and don't want the left selling them down the river like they wish to.

Anyone regarding those privileges as a right or feels guilty about them has complete freedom to go and change their nationality to whatever they want.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Sep 2016 8.59pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Hmmmm I smell Bullsh1t on the basis that in every conflict, lberation, war or whatever you want to call it, I have been in, I am not fighting against people armed with SA80A1 assault rifle's, or running like fcuk from an L109A1 frag grenade, no I am fighting against people armed to the fcking teeth with Russian made AK's and ammo and Chinese RPG's and mines.

Don't be silly.

Edited by dannyh (15 Sep 2016 9.53am)

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

From time to time when pointless debates like this rage on the Hol... I like to post up the image below.

It reminds us that the place is an absolute sh1thole and has been fought over for millennia by Mad Mahdis and religious zealots as well as crazed dictators.

Watching "Carry On Up The Khyber" is just as much a valid synopsis of life in the Middle East as any news report by Frank Gardner who got shot reporting there and now travels around in a wheelchair.

Blaming stuff on Cameron, or Blair is as futile as having an inquiry into Richard The Lionheart's Crusades and why he didn't defeat Saladin in 1187.

I'm hoping that Kim Jong-Un's nuclear missiles go astray and land smack on the heart of it and finally turn the entire Middle East to rubble (most of it is already anyway).

I can't think of a better solution.

Attachment: Middle East.jpg (75.13Kb)