Lahore park attack

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Lahore park attack

Page 2 of 2 << First < 1 2

jamiemartin721 Reading 29 Mar 16 9.44am
Originally posted by Sportyteacher Nope, life should be inspired by religious values especially where looking out for others, and not oneself, is concerned. Religion has been corrupted by too many man-made forces intent in butchering the so-called name of their faith. Well, it is Easter.... Religion is a means by which spiritual values and individual are co-opted into a corrupt hierarchy of control and exploitation. Its a major problem of their Abrahamic faiths, their political influence and power is focused on the 'prosperity of the faith' rather than the faithful. You only need to spend a few hours in Vatican city to realise who 'the church' really represents. The same is applicable to almost all major religious movements, as they promote the surrender of individual responsibility to an 'ultimate inalienable' truth. Its almost inevitable that this results in oppressive and murderous factions. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721

Reading 29 Mar 16 9.44am

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

Nope, life should be inspired by religious values especially where looking out for others, and not oneself, is concerned. Religion has been corrupted by too many man-made forces intent in butchering the so-called name of their faith.

Well, it is Easter....

Religion is a means by which spiritual values and individual are co-opted into a corrupt hierarchy of control and exploitation. Its a major problem of their Abrahamic faiths, their political influence and power is focused on the 'prosperity of the faith' rather than the faithful.

You only need to spend a few hours in Vatican city to realise who 'the church' really represents. The same is applicable to almost all major religious movements, as they promote the surrender of individual responsibility to an 'ultimate inalienable' truth.

Its almost inevitable that this results in oppressive and murderous factions.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721 Reading 29 Mar 16 9.50am
Originally posted by Sportyteacher All too often Religion is held up as the reason yet it is really the excuse for the most abhorrent behaviour that is fundamentally man-made. Both Taliban & ISIS creeds are a massive distortion from Islam faith. On a separate note, there has to be considerable doubt as to the efficacy of pakistan's security forces and Government promises to tackle terrorism given the spate of recent bloody attacks. Wasn't there corruption exposed via the previous administration led by Musharraf? I disagree, like fundamentalist Christians (and violent Christian sects and faiths through history) they are an inevitable consequence of religions in which the responsibility of the individual can be supplanted by an external universal truth that remains with an elite. Its like any ideology wedded to an absolute truth that is the right only of a small elite to control, sooner or later that results in sectarian violence in which that movement seeks to eliminate rivals for secular power and influence (oppression and suppression). 1984 is as applicable to the idea of Religion as politics. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721

Reading 29 Mar 16 9.50am

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

All too often Religion is held up as the reason yet it is really the excuse for the most abhorrent behaviour that is fundamentally man-made. Both Taliban & ISIS creeds are a massive distortion from Islam faith.

On a separate note, there has to be considerable doubt as to the efficacy of pakistan's security forces and Government promises to tackle terrorism given the spate of recent bloody attacks. Wasn't there corruption exposed via the previous administration led by Musharraf?

I disagree, like fundamentalist Christians (and violent Christian sects and faiths through history) they are an inevitable consequence of religions in which the responsibility of the individual can be supplanted by an external universal truth that remains with an elite.

Its like any ideology wedded to an absolute truth that is the right only of a small elite to control, sooner or later that results in sectarian violence in which that movement seeks to eliminate rivals for secular power and influence (oppression and suppression).

1984 is as applicable to the idea of Religion as politics.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721 Reading 29 Mar 16 9.58am
Originally posted by matt_himself I understand what you are saying but the partition of India and pakistan, with the ensuing chaos caused by the creation of what is essentially a country comprising of warring tribal factions, is to me one of the worst legacies Britain has left the World. pakistan is a basket case and the job of trying to rule it complex, nigh on impossible. pakistan clearly needs the World to stand with it because if countries like pakistan can be helped, then we can neuter the extremists and their funding/supply chains. Edited by matt_himself (28 Mar 2016 12.47pm) Agree with this. pakistan is in a very precarious situation, especially in regards to the NW province up on the border of Afghanistan. One of the principle reasons why pakistan supported the Taliban is that it effectively created a significant period of peace within those border regions. Arguably one of the major reasons the pakistan government rarely bothered with that region, is that it keep the whole region quiet, and largely contented, looking away from the state. The problem of the 2001 invasion, for pakistan, is that it destabalised the region, and inevitably drew the state into conflict with an area that it can't hope to control (and probably doesn't want to control) - Most of the region was effectively 'part of Taliban Afghanistan'. pakistan is a country almost at war with itself, and it is a Nuclear Power. More than any other country, it must be protected and sustained. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721

Reading 29 Mar 16 9.58am

Originally posted by matt_himself

I understand what you are saying but the partition of India and pakistan, with the ensuing chaos caused by the creation of what is essentially a country comprising of warring tribal factions, is to me one of the worst legacies Britain has left the World.

pakistan is a basket case and the job of trying to rule it complex, nigh on impossible. pakistan clearly needs the World to stand with it because if countries like pakistan can be helped, then we can neuter the extremists and their funding/supply chains.

Edited by matt_himself (28 Mar 2016 12.47pm)

Agree with this. pakistan is in a very precarious situation, especially in regards to the NW province up on the border of Afghanistan. One of the principle reasons why pakistan supported the Taliban is that it effectively created a significant period of peace within those border regions. Arguably one of the major reasons the pakistan government rarely bothered with that region, is that it keep the whole region quiet, and largely contented, looking away from the state.

The problem of the 2001 invasion, for pakistan, is that it destabalised the region, and inevitably drew the state into conflict with an area that it can't hope to control (and probably doesn't want to control) - Most of the region was effectively 'part of Taliban Afghanistan'.

pakistan is a country almost at war with itself, and it is a Nuclear Power. More than any other country, it must be protected and sustained.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

johnfirewall 29 Mar 16 11.20am
Sorry to politicise such an atrocity but I'm wound up by the repeated allegations that we the West don't care and thus don't get the option on Facebook to change our profile photos to the flags of these countries. The other contradictory accusation from the same people is that we only care if it's perpetrated by Muslims against Christians, because of our agenda to demonise. If both stand true then I shouldn't use the Nigerian flag in tribute. In fact there was a huge global response to the kidnapping of those girls for example. It's unfair to suggest peoples selectivity is based on some underlying prejudice. I may be ignorant because I choose to holiday in France and Belgium over a warzone but that's about all you've got on me.
Alert a moderator to this post

johnfirewall

29 Mar 16 11.20am

Sorry to politicise such an atrocity but I'm wound up by the repeated allegations that we the West don't care and thus don't get the option on Facebook to change our profile photos to the flags of these countries. The other contradictory accusation from the same people is that we only care if it's perpetrated by Muslims against Christians, because of our agenda to demonise. If both stand true then I shouldn't use the Nigerian flag in tribute. In fact there was a huge global response to the kidnapping of those girls for example.

It's unfair to suggest peoples selectivity is based on some underlying prejudice. I may be ignorant because I choose to holiday in France and Belgium over a warzone but that's about all you've got on me.

Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721 Reading 29 Mar 16 11.51am
Originally posted by johnfirewall Sorry to politicise such an atrocity but I'm wound up by the repeated allegations that we the West don't care and thus don't get the option on Facebook to change our profile photos to the flags of these countries. The other contradictory accusation from the same people is that we only care if it's perpetrated by Muslims against Christians, because of our agenda to demonise. If both stand true then I shouldn't use the Nigerian flag in tribute. In fact there was a huge global response to the kidnapping of those girls for example. It's unfair to suggest peoples selectivity is based on some underlying prejudice. I may be ignorant because I choose to holiday in France and Belgium over a warzone but that's about all you've got on me. Quite, also, its closer to home, and so more relevant - It worries me more that the coverage in the media can be negligent, but the whole Je Suis Charlie / Look at my Facebook flag face is a bit c**tish. The actions of people who think it matters, when its absolutely the least they could possibly do. Its on a par with saying you do a lot for charity when all you do is get people to sponsor you to do something you enjoy. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721

Reading 29 Mar 16 11.51am

Originally posted by johnfirewall

Quite, also, its closer to home, and so more relevant - It worries me more that the coverage in the media can be negligent, but the whole Je Suis Charlie / Look at my Facebook flag face is a bit c**tish. The actions of people who think it matters, when its absolutely the least they could possibly do.

Its on a par with saying you do a lot for charity when all you do is get people to sponsor you to do something you enjoy.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

Spiderman Horsham 29 Mar 16 12.03pm
Originally posted by dougster Forgive my ignorance, but is that the same pakistan which harbored known terrorists, such as our old friend, Osama? The same pakistan, which is widely accepted as being one of the most active state sponsors of terrorist groups in the world? Yes, I have huge sympathy with those innocents who have been blown up, but we need to stand up to the pakistani government, not stand with them! Unfortunately many areas of pakistan are tribal and are governed by local "war lords" and pay no heed to the Central Government. Most of these areas are no-go zones, these are where the "terrorists" are bing harboured.
Alert a moderator to this post

Spiderman

Horsham 29 Mar 16 12.03pm

Originally posted by dougster

Forgive my ignorance, but is that the same pakistan which harbored known terrorists, such as our old friend, Osama?

The same pakistan, which is widely accepted as being one of the most active state sponsors of terrorist groups in the world?

Yes, I have huge sympathy with those innocents who have been blown up, but we need to stand up to the pakistani government, not stand with them!

Unfortunately many areas of pakistan are tribal and are governed by local "war lords" and pay no heed to the Central Government. Most of these areas are no-go zones, these are where the "terrorists" are bing harboured.

Alert a moderator to this post

Spiderman Horsham 29 Mar 16 12.07pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Agree with this. pakistan is in a very precarious situation, especially in regards to the NW province up on the border of Afghanistan. One of the principle reasons why pakistan supported the Taliban is that it effectively created a significant period of peace within those border regions. Arguably one of the major reasons the pakistan government rarely bothered with that region, is that it keep the whole region quiet, and largely contented, looking away from the state. The problem of the 2001 invasion, for pakistan, is that it destabalised the region, and inevitably drew the state into conflict with an area that it can't hope to control (and probably doesn't want to control) - Most of the region was effectively 'part of Taliban Afghanistan'. pakistan is a country almost at war with itself, and it is a Nuclear Power. More than any other country, it must be protected and sustained. Totally agree with this. I was living in Islamabad at the time of 9/11. Prior to this we had freedom to travel to most places (some were always "no-go" areas) I twice was able to travel through the Khyber Pass to the Afghan border but virtually overnight everything changed. Shame because parts of the Northern Regions are extremely interestingly places to see.
Alert a moderator to this post

Spiderman

Horsham 29 Mar 16 12.07pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

pakistan is a country almost at war with itself, and it is a Nuclear Power. More than any other country, it must be protected and sustained.

Totally agree with this. I was living in Islamabad at the time of 9/11. Prior to this we had freedom to travel to most places (some were always "no-go" areas) I twice was able to travel through the Khyber Pass to the Afghan border but virtually overnight everything changed. Shame because parts of the Northern Regions are extremely interestingly places to see.

Alert a moderator to this post

Page 2 of 2 << First < 1 2

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

Lahore park attack

Site Map

New users

Existing users

Sponsors