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chris123 hove actually 19 Feb 16 10.01am | |
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Originally posted by Willo
Let's hope so !
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 19 Feb 16 11.22am | |
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All posturing and not a lot of change in the way we'd like, just possibly less future change in the way the unelected bureaucrats want to force upon us. The 3 leave teams will be meeting on Monday or Tuesday to hopefully galvanise their influence. I am leaning on the exit side unless the stayers can come up with anything better than 'less wars' or '3 million jobs lost' which is pure conjecture. What they need to do is be honest that economic growth may well sway 1% either way but that will come with a better quality of life for many that cannot be quantified in economic figures and parliamentary targets. More housing for voters, voters' offspring and voters' grandchildren. Mature voters are more likely to vote leave and this approach might win over the younger vote. Or we keep increasing the population without a coherent strategy for housing, services and infrastructure. Immigration is not the cause of all our ills, an accusation many lefties on QT resort to when lost for what to say, but it does increase strain on housing and services. I was surprised when UKIP's Paul Nuttall kept quiet the other week whilst listening to complete rubbish from the audience that Farage would've responded to. I think the leave camp should make it clear that leaving the EU does not necessarily mean a closed door policy. The shocked audience on QT last week when Romesh Ranganathan said he thought uncontrolled immigration was a bad thing says a lot. We do need some migration and some migrants need us. If they pitched the idea that less economic migration every year for nearly 15 years may have meant more refugee asylum, it might sway some more caring younger voters, and the disgruntled Daily Mail reader would have to accept it as it's what we've done in the past anyway.
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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 19 Feb 16 11.31am | |
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Originally posted by OldFella
For those of you who listened - I (and hopefully you) made a lot of money on the Tory majority last year. Here's your next chance - we're coming out of the EU. It won't even be close. And I'm not charging for my tips...fill your boots, Palace people. Pay for next season's ST's.... OF I really do hope so.
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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Sportyteacher London 19 Feb 16 12.03pm | |
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If there is a Brexit, then watch the number of companies, whose headquarters are based within The UK, relocate elsewhere within Europe. Johnny Englander is naively assuming that this country of ours can survive upon its own merits alas it's biggest customer is Europe. Add to the consequences, the record borrowing debt already racked up by past and present Governments (£1.5+tn) as well as current personal debt levels (£2+tn) ; impact of continuing migrant crisis upon infrastructure as well as volatile financial stock markets, and you have a perfect economic storm fast approaching.
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Hoof Hearted 19 Feb 16 12.07pm | |
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Originally posted by topcat
Completely agree. Cameron will need his cronies in the media to spin it as a complete success.
He fears a backlash from the Euro sceptics in his party but cannot be seen to support them even though I believe privately he probably wants to leave the EU if he weighs up the options. Realistically he wants what ever outcome keeps him his job and kudos and that result is more likely to be a referendum win for staying in the EU. He doesn't want to be seen as the PM who took us out of the EU and then kicked out by his party. You're right Tom with your opening comments - anything he comes back with won't be good enough. He set the bar too low I'm afraid with his "demands" which are really a few polite requests in real terms. He should have gone in "going for broke" with a real threat that the UK will leave the EU if we fail to get the demands in full on matters such as Britain being able to set it's own immigration targets/policies and having our own sovereignty back, ie the right to govern ourselves without interference. The other EU leaders are playing hardball on these lesser issues that Cameron has asked for as all part of playing the game. They don't want us getting concessions however trivial they may be! The so called "brake" on benefits seems an easy thing for the EU to renege on further down the line if they grant it now anyway? Voting to leave the EU is the only way we can go forward as a viable nation. If we vote to stay in, more and more immigrants will flood in from eastern europe (with reduced benefit terms or even none at all) because they know they will have a better life here compared to where they live now. We will also have more immigrants from the middle east and africa who are now residing in Germany, Sweden and other northern european countries - in a few years they will be free to travel anywhere they want with an EU passport. The EU is a busted flush. Initially we joined the "Common Market" a great idea for a trading club of like minded economically solvent northern european nations. However this initial idea has grown to the beast it is today - a political union of mixed economically viable nations and NOT what we the public voted yes to in the 1975 referendum. Economically it doesn't work due to the wide disparities in it's membership - places like Greece are always going to be a strain on the nations with stronger economies. They will never be strong enough to make a positive contribution to the coffers, but instead will always be looking for handouts. Geographically it doesn't work either. It's too easy for asylum seekers/refugees to get into Europe through Greece and Italy and then onwards throughout the rest of Europe due to the Schengen agreement. If the borders are not closed the whole of Europe will be flooded with millions of people fleeing the tyranny of the middle eastern and african countries run by zealots, tinpot dictators and/or Islamic Fundamentalists.... or fleeing from diseases like Ebola or famine and drought. So life here will become even more intolerable across the whole of the UK. Chronic shortage of houses, GP practices, Hospitals, Dentists, Schools, etc.... the roads will be gridlocked and there will be more floods as farmers fields and golf courses will be built over to accommodate a vastly growing population. More and more visitors will create more opportunities for terrorists, paedophiles, rapists, gipsy pickpockets, conmen, murderers and other nasty criminals to get free passage to our shores to carry out their evil practices. The EU courts will refuse our attempts to deport them on trumped up human rights issues. The police will be run ragged trying to catch them with reduced resources and then unsuccessfully trying to prosecute them with the EU laws giving the perpetrators more loopholes to exploit. Brussels will continue to pass more and more laws on every aspect of our lives until we suffocate under the pressure of the bureaucracy of the EU or worse....... the amount of Islamic immigrants living in the UK builds up to a time when they have a majority and implement Sharia Law. The UK will be expected to pay more and more into the coffers as our economy continues to prosper whilst other economies don't. The £1.8M subsidy we had to cough up last year was just the start of it. VOTE LEAVE You know it makes sense. PS - don't be fooled by the BBC's coverage bigging up Cameron's achievements - they want to stay in the EU too. Notice how anything derogatory Corbyn says about Cameron is not reported right now? Notice how news of immigrants causing trouble in Europe is suppressed right now and no reports from Calais about Truckers being molested by migrants either? Nigel Farage and UKIP supporters are also being gagged as their simple straightforward campaign messages to vote leave are resonating with voters. It's all a conspiracy to lead us blindfold to voting to stay in the EU.
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npn Crowborough 19 Feb 16 12.08pm | |
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Originally posted by Sportyteacher
If there is a Brexit, then watch the number of companies, whose headquarters are based within The UK, relocate elsewhere within Europe. Johnny Englander is naively assuming that this country of ours can survive upon its own merits alas it's biggest customer is Europe. Add to the consequences, the record borrowing debt already racked up by past and present Governments (£1.5+tn) as well as current personal debt levels (£2+tn) ; impact of continuing migrant crisis upon infrastructure as well as volatile financial stock markets, and you have a perfect economic storm fast approaching. I'm still undecided, but this idea that Europe may stop trading with us or impose punitive restrictions if we exit is daft. We import a lot more than we export (in the case of Germany, it's double) - they won't slam the door on that lucrative market
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leifandersonshair Newport 19 Feb 16 12.14pm | |
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Ultimately it's a very, very complex issue, which will be simplified to those who want out screaming at the top of their lungs "too many immigrants!" and those who want to stay screaming at the top of their lungs "The economy!" It won't be pretty.
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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 19 Feb 16 12.16pm | |
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Originally posted by Sportyteacher
If there is a Brexit, then watch the number of companies, whose headquarters are based within The UK, relocate elsewhere within Europe. Johnny Englander is naively assuming that this country of ours can survive upon its own merits alas it's biggest customer is Europe. Add to the consequences, the record borrowing debt already racked up by past and present Governments (£1.5+tn) as well as current personal debt levels (£2+tn) ; impact of continuing migrant crisis upon infrastructure as well as volatile financial stock markets, and you have a perfect economic storm fast approaching.
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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Hoof Hearted 19 Feb 16 12.30pm | |
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Originally posted by leifandersonshair
Ultimately it's a very, very complex issue, which will be simplified to those who want out screaming at the top of their lungs "too many immigrants!" and those who want to stay screaming at the top of their lungs "The economy!" It won't be pretty. I've spent 40+ years in the finance sector as an IFA, compliance director and in an actuarial department. I have absolutely no concerns at all about our economy. We are doing well now despite the EU and will continue to prosper if and when we leave it. There were the same concerns being raised now as when we opted to keep the Pound rather than adopting the Euro. Those concerns turned out to be false. Luckily the public weren't fooled and made the right decision to support keeping the Pound. As someone else has already pointed out, the likes of Germany rely upon us to export their goods at a rate of double to what we export to them! Do you really think they will be implementing harsh trading terms towards us? The Pound trades well against all currencies - always has done, always will. Our credit rating may well rise if we leave the EU as our economy would not be associated with the EU which is still struggling as a whole. I cannot see one argument for remaining in the EU economically.
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 19 Feb 16 12.32pm | |
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Originally posted by susmik
Are these the same companies that would leave if labour got into power? (I've seen this mentioned on the hol in the past which is why I bring it up)
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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 19 Feb 16 12.58pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Are these the same companies that would leave if labour got into power? (I've seen this mentioned on the hol in the past which is why I bring it up) I do not know Nick but what I do know is that we as a country are far better off than the other EU members. hence why Germany do not want us to leave. Angela Merkel is weeing her knickers in case we do leave that is why she is urging other members to agree with what Little DC has put forward. I honestly think that the citizens in this country know more about us coming out than the powers to be realise. The out vote is picking up a lot more than it was and it does look like it will be an out vote when eventually we put pen to paper on our voting slips.
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 19 Feb 16 1.16pm | |
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Looks like DC did not get what he wanted and NO deal has been signed.....Looking good to come out when we get to vote then???
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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