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Crispin Blunt campaigns for 'poppers' to be legal
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 DanH  SW2 21 Jan 16 1.07pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
Keep drugs illegal. The fact is that all drugs are damaging to the individual and society. Drugs break up families, destroy individuals and cause communities to dissolve. I am sure that proponent's of drug liberalisation can provide many studies that 'prove' that drugs are more harmful illegal than legal but I just do not buy it. The amount of people I have personally seen had their lives f***ed up through drugs and wish they had never come into contact with them is enough for me.
That's my tenner lost
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The Sash  Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 21 Jan 16 1.32pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
Keep drugs illegal. The fact is that all drugs are damaging to the individual and society. Drugs break up families, destroy individuals and cause communities to dissolve. I am sure that proponent's of drug liberalisation can provide many studies that 'prove' that drugs are more harmful illegal than legal but I just do not buy it. The amount of people I have personally seen had their lives f***ed up through drugs and wish they had never come into contact with them is enough for me.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Jan 16 1.57pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
Keep drugs illegal. The fact is that all drugs are damaging to the individual and society. Drugs break up families, destroy individuals and cause communities to dissolve. I'm not sure that's necessarily true in a literal sense. Drugs themselves don't break up families, people in families do that all the time. I think it becomes a convenience to blame the drug rather than the person, because it permits us to abscond responsibility to individuals we care for. Certainly addiction destroys families and kills individuals, but the problem of addiction is only representative of a few of the banned drugs. In terms of communities, the illegality is probably more damaging - notably the crime caused by gangs financed by drug money, and crime committed to obtain money for drugs. Its notable that primarily in terms of community the problem is heroin and cocaine both rather expensive drugs (who's price is massively inflated by the black market). By criminalising drugs I would argue that greater pressures are put on families, individuals and communities than the drugs themselves. Prison and fines put a greater stress on families, the high expense of the black market and the risk in terms of quality are more threatening to individuals, than the drug itself and communities suffer more because of the social impacts of a very lucrative black market than the cost of treating addicts. Also people who have been caught up in the criminal justice approach, find themselves having to deal with criminal records and the impact on employment as well as losing jobs and income. Attempts to deal with the problems of alcohol via prohibition, created a greater social problem than alcohol and addiction; which affected people who didn't have a problem. Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
I am sure that proponent's of drug liberalisation can provide many studies that 'prove' that drugs are more harmful illegal than legal but I just do not buy it. They aren't, there are just less impacts and risks. Heroin as a drug is more or less as harmful if produced legally or illegally. The difference is that legally its easier for the user to control the risks and reduce the costs very significantly (Heroin is sold at profit to the NHS for 1/35th the price of its street equivalent. Its also especially for those not involved. A very significant number of people who have no interest in drugs and don't even know someone with a drug problem, experience robbery, muggings, burglary, theft etc by addicts seeking to fund their addiction to crack and heroin (Finding 80-200 a day, means committing generally 240-600 a day in crime). Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
The amount of people I have personally seen had their lives f***ed up through drugs and wish they had never come into contact with them is enough for me. Me too, but I also grew up in an AA family, and saw those same kinds of stories from alcoholics as well - Its a problem. Banning the drugs in question hasn't helped any of those people either - And plenty of people have their lives f**ked up by the criminal justice factor, receiving criminal records because they like to get stoned rather than drunk, even in some cases spending time in prison.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| matt_himself Matataland 21 Jan 16 2.17pm |
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Quote The Sash at 21 Jan 2016 1.32pm
Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
Keep drugs illegal. The fact is that all drugs are damaging to the individual and society. Drugs break up families, destroy individuals and cause communities to dissolve. I am sure that proponent's of drug liberalisation can provide many studies that 'prove' that drugs are more harmful illegal than legal but I just do not buy it. The amount of people I have personally seen had their lives f***ed up through drugs and wish they had never come into contact with them is enough for me.
Tobacco yes, alcohol no. We destroyed a perfectly good system of control of alcohol by allowing all and sundry to flog it, rather than just the publican, the offy and the restaurant. Whilst I hear what you are saying about alcohol, imagine what society would be like if all and sundry had access to heroin or crack. It would be horrendous.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| matt_himself Matataland 21 Jan 16 2.19pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2016 1.57pm
Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
Keep drugs illegal. The fact is that all drugs are damaging to the individual and society. Drugs break up families, destroy individuals and cause communities to dissolve. I'm not sure that's necessarily true in a literal sense. Drugs themselves don't break up families, people in families do that all the time. I think it becomes a convenience to blame the drug rather than the person, because it permits us to abscond responsibility to individuals we care for. Certainly addiction destroys families and kills individuals, but the problem of addiction is only representative of a few of the banned drugs. In terms of communities, the illegality is probably more damaging - notably the crime caused by gangs financed by drug money, and crime committed to obtain money for drugs. Its notable that primarily in terms of community the problem is heroin and cocaine both rather expensive drugs (who's price is massively inflated by the black market). By criminalising drugs I would argue that greater pressures are put on families, individuals and communities than the drugs themselves. Prison and fines put a greater stress on families, the high expense of the black market and the risk in terms of quality are more threatening to individuals, than the drug itself and communities suffer more because of the social impacts of a very lucrative black market than the cost of treating addicts. Also people who have been caught up in the criminal justice approach, find themselves having to deal with criminal records and the impact on employment as well as losing jobs and income. Attempts to deal with the problems of alcohol via prohibition, created a greater social problem than alcohol and addiction; which affected people who didn't have a problem. Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
I am sure that proponent's of drug liberalisation can provide many studies that 'prove' that drugs are more harmful illegal than legal but I just do not buy it. They aren't, there are just less impacts and risks. Heroin as a drug is more or less as harmful if produced legally or illegally. The difference is that legally its easier for the user to control the risks and reduce the costs very significantly (Heroin is sold at profit to the NHS for 1/35th the price of its street equivalent. Its also especially for those not involved. A very significant number of people who have no interest in drugs and don't even know someone with a drug problem, experience robbery, muggings, burglary, theft etc by addicts seeking to fund their addiction to crack and heroin (Finding 80-200 a day, means committing generally 240-600 a day in crime). Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
The amount of people I have personally seen had their lives f***ed up through drugs and wish they had never come into contact with them is enough for me. Me too, but I also grew up in an AA family, and saw those same kinds of stories from alcoholics as well - Its a problem. Banning the drugs in question hasn't helped any of those people either - And plenty of people have their lives f**ked up by the criminal justice factor, receiving criminal records because they like to get stoned rather than drunk, even in some cases spending time in prison. I completely disagree with you. I think your view is slanted by your politics and not the reality of drug abuse or the experience of those affected by drugs.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Jan 16 3.52pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 2.17pm
Quote The Sash at 21 Jan 2016 1.32pm
Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
Keep drugs illegal. The fact is that all drugs are damaging to the individual and society. Drugs break up families, destroy individuals and cause communities to dissolve. I am sure that proponent's of drug liberalisation can provide many studies that 'prove' that drugs are more harmful illegal than legal but I just do not buy it. The amount of people I have personally seen had their lives f***ed up through drugs and wish they had never come into contact with them is enough for me.
Tobacco yes, alcohol no. We destroyed a perfectly good system of control of alcohol by allowing all and sundry to flog it, rather than just the publican, the offy and the restaurant. Whilst I hear what you are saying about alcohol, imagine what society would be like if all and sundry had access to heroin or crack. It would be horrendous. I'm inclined to agree that alcohol should be restricted to off-licences, pubs and restaurants. I'm not entirely sold on the idea of heroin and crack -A part of me is wary about that. But I'd say the same doesn't follow for Weed, Ecstasy, LSD, Mushrooms, Speed, Cocaine (rather than crack) etc - which is where most of the drug use in the UK occurs. Heroin and crack use is quite low by comparison, and has generally been stable - Its a tiny fraction of UK drug use. People I've known who have gone down the heroin and crack route tended towards being 'f**k ups', not all of them, but for the most part they had issues to which those drugs appealed.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Jan 16 3.53pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 2.19pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2016 1.57pm
Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
Keep drugs illegal. The fact is that all drugs are damaging to the individual and society. Drugs break up families, destroy individuals and cause communities to dissolve. I'm not sure that's necessarily true in a literal sense. Drugs themselves don't break up families, people in families do that all the time. I think it becomes a convenience to blame the drug rather than the person, because it permits us to abscond responsibility to individuals we care for. Certainly addiction destroys families and kills individuals, but the problem of addiction is only representative of a few of the banned drugs. In terms of communities, the illegality is probably more damaging - notably the crime caused by gangs financed by drug money, and crime committed to obtain money for drugs. Its notable that primarily in terms of community the problem is heroin and cocaine both rather expensive drugs (who's price is massively inflated by the black market). By criminalising drugs I would argue that greater pressures are put on families, individuals and communities than the drugs themselves. Prison and fines put a greater stress on families, the high expense of the black market and the risk in terms of quality are more threatening to individuals, than the drug itself and communities suffer more because of the social impacts of a very lucrative black market than the cost of treating addicts. Also people who have been caught up in the criminal justice approach, find themselves having to deal with criminal records and the impact on employment as well as losing jobs and income. Attempts to deal with the problems of alcohol via prohibition, created a greater social problem than alcohol and addiction; which affected people who didn't have a problem. Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
I am sure that proponent's of drug liberalisation can provide many studies that 'prove' that drugs are more harmful illegal than legal but I just do not buy it. They aren't, there are just less impacts and risks. Heroin as a drug is more or less as harmful if produced legally or illegally. The difference is that legally its easier for the user to control the risks and reduce the costs very significantly (Heroin is sold at profit to the NHS for 1/35th the price of its street equivalent. Its also especially for those not involved. A very significant number of people who have no interest in drugs and don't even know someone with a drug problem, experience robbery, muggings, burglary, theft etc by addicts seeking to fund their addiction to crack and heroin (Finding 80-200 a day, means committing generally 240-600 a day in crime). Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
The amount of people I have personally seen had their lives f***ed up through drugs and wish they had never come into contact with them is enough for me. Me too, but I also grew up in an AA family, and saw those same kinds of stories from alcoholics as well - Its a problem. Banning the drugs in question hasn't helped any of those people either - And plenty of people have their lives f**ked up by the criminal justice factor, receiving criminal records because they like to get stoned rather than drunk, even in some cases spending time in prison. I completely disagree with you. I think your view is slanted by your politics and not the reality of drug abuse or the experience of those affected by drugs. Not so much my politics, but my experience with drugs and rehab.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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on me shed son  Krakow 21 Jan 16 6.24pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2016 3.53pm
Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 2.19pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2016 1.57pm
Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
Keep drugs illegal. The fact is that all drugs are damaging to the individual and society. Drugs break up families, destroy individuals and cause communities to dissolve. I'm not sure that's necessarily true in a literal sense. Drugs themselves don't break up families, people in families do that all the time. I think it becomes a convenience to blame the drug rather than the person, because it permits us to abscond responsibility to individuals we care for. Certainly addiction destroys families and kills individuals, but the problem of addiction is only representative of a few of the banned drugs. In terms of communities, the illegality is probably more damaging - notably the crime caused by gangs financed by drug money, and crime committed to obtain money for drugs. Its notable that primarily in terms of community the problem is heroin and cocaine both rather expensive drugs (who's price is massively inflated by the black market). By criminalising drugs I would argue that greater pressures are put on families, individuals and communities than the drugs themselves. Prison and fines put a greater stress on families, the high expense of the black market and the risk in terms of quality are more threatening to individuals, than the drug itself and communities suffer more because of the social impacts of a very lucrative black market than the cost of treating addicts. Also people who have been caught up in the criminal justice approach, find themselves having to deal with criminal records and the impact on employment as well as losing jobs and income. Attempts to deal with the problems of alcohol via prohibition, created a greater social problem than alcohol and addiction; which affected people who didn't have a problem. Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
I am sure that proponent's of drug liberalisation can provide many studies that 'prove' that drugs are more harmful illegal than legal but I just do not buy it. They aren't, there are just less impacts and risks. Heroin as a drug is more or less as harmful if produced legally or illegally. The difference is that legally its easier for the user to control the risks and reduce the costs very significantly (Heroin is sold at profit to the NHS for 1/35th the price of its street equivalent. Its also especially for those not involved. A very significant number of people who have no interest in drugs and don't even know someone with a drug problem, experience robbery, muggings, burglary, theft etc by addicts seeking to fund their addiction to crack and heroin (Finding 80-200 a day, means committing generally 240-600 a day in crime). Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
The amount of people I have personally seen had their lives f***ed up through drugs and wish they had never come into contact with them is enough for me. Me too, but I also grew up in an AA family, and saw those same kinds of stories from alcoholics as well - Its a problem. Banning the drugs in question hasn't helped any of those people either - And plenty of people have their lives f**ked up by the criminal justice factor, receiving criminal records because they like to get stoned rather than drunk, even in some cases spending time in prison. I completely disagree with you. I think your view is slanted by your politics and not the reality of drug abuse or the experience of those affected by drugs. Not so much my politics, but my experience with drugs and rehab. I'm with Jamie. It would be the single biggest blow you can deal to organised crime, and the current "war on drugs" doesn't seem to be having much of an impact. Plus you can argue that maybe the government doesn't have any business telling people what they can put into their bodies.
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| rob1969 Banstead Surrey 21 Jan 16 7.08pm |
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Quote topcat at 21 Jan 2016 10.42am
Legalise and tax recreational drugs. Politicians know it makes sense but are too afraid of upsetting Middle England. Hard to blame Middle England though when we have been repeatedly been told how evil all illegal drugs are rather than having a proper discussion about them. Well Mr Blunt obviously isn't bearing in mind his constituency - Reigate - would by many be considered quite representative of Tory middle England !
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| matt_himself Matataland 21 Jan 16 8.06pm |
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Quote on me shed son at 21 Jan 2016 6.24pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2016 3.53pm
Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 2.19pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2016 1.57pm
Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
Keep drugs illegal. The fact is that all drugs are damaging to the individual and society. Drugs break up families, destroy individuals and cause communities to dissolve. I'm not sure that's necessarily true in a literal sense. Drugs themselves don't break up families, people in families do that all the time. I think it becomes a convenience to blame the drug rather than the person, because it permits us to abscond responsibility to individuals we care for. Certainly addiction destroys families and kills individuals, but the problem of addiction is only representative of a few of the banned drugs. In terms of communities, the illegality is probably more damaging - notably the crime caused by gangs financed by drug money, and crime committed to obtain money for drugs. Its notable that primarily in terms of community the problem is heroin and cocaine both rather expensive drugs (who's price is massively inflated by the black market). By criminalising drugs I would argue that greater pressures are put on families, individuals and communities than the drugs themselves. Prison and fines put a greater stress on families, the high expense of the black market and the risk in terms of quality are more threatening to individuals, than the drug itself and communities suffer more because of the social impacts of a very lucrative black market than the cost of treating addicts. Also people who have been caught up in the criminal justice approach, find themselves having to deal with criminal records and the impact on employment as well as losing jobs and income. Attempts to deal with the problems of alcohol via prohibition, created a greater social problem than alcohol and addiction; which affected people who didn't have a problem. Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
I am sure that proponent's of drug liberalisation can provide many studies that 'prove' that drugs are more harmful illegal than legal but I just do not buy it. They aren't, there are just less impacts and risks. Heroin as a drug is more or less as harmful if produced legally or illegally. The difference is that legally its easier for the user to control the risks and reduce the costs very significantly (Heroin is sold at profit to the NHS for 1/35th the price of its street equivalent. Its also especially for those not involved. A very significant number of people who have no interest in drugs and don't even know someone with a drug problem, experience robbery, muggings, burglary, theft etc by addicts seeking to fund their addiction to crack and heroin (Finding 80-200 a day, means committing generally 240-600 a day in crime). Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
The amount of people I have personally seen had their lives f***ed up through drugs and wish they had never come into contact with them is enough for me. Me too, but I also grew up in an AA family, and saw those same kinds of stories from alcoholics as well - Its a problem. Banning the drugs in question hasn't helped any of those people either - And plenty of people have their lives f**ked up by the criminal justice factor, receiving criminal records because they like to get stoned rather than drunk, even in some cases spending time in prison. I completely disagree with you. I think your view is slanted by your politics and not the reality of drug abuse or the experience of those affected by drugs. Not so much my politics, but my experience with drugs and rehab. I'm with Jamie. It would be the single biggest blow you can deal to organised crime, and the current "war on drugs" doesn't seem to be having much of an impact. Plus you can argue that maybe the government doesn't have any business telling people what they can put into their bodies.
However, I would disagree with you because if I agreed with legalising drugs and then, as a result, one of the new legion of crackheads raped and killed a or members of my family following them 'mainlining some s***', I would feel pretty s***. Drugs use is unpredictable hence it is illegal. I wouldn't mess with that.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| on me shed son Krakow 21 Jan 16 8.11pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 8.06pm
Quote on me shed son at 21 Jan 2016 6.24pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2016 3.53pm
Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 2.19pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 21 Jan 2016 1.57pm
Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
Keep drugs illegal. The fact is that all drugs are damaging to the individual and society. Drugs break up families, destroy individuals and cause communities to dissolve. I'm not sure that's necessarily true in a literal sense. Drugs themselves don't break up families, people in families do that all the time. I think it becomes a convenience to blame the drug rather than the person, because it permits us to abscond responsibility to individuals we care for. Certainly addiction destroys families and kills individuals, but the problem of addiction is only representative of a few of the banned drugs. In terms of communities, the illegality is probably more damaging - notably the crime caused by gangs financed by drug money, and crime committed to obtain money for drugs. Its notable that primarily in terms of community the problem is heroin and cocaine both rather expensive drugs (who's price is massively inflated by the black market). By criminalising drugs I would argue that greater pressures are put on families, individuals and communities than the drugs themselves. Prison and fines put a greater stress on families, the high expense of the black market and the risk in terms of quality are more threatening to individuals, than the drug itself and communities suffer more because of the social impacts of a very lucrative black market than the cost of treating addicts. Also people who have been caught up in the criminal justice approach, find themselves having to deal with criminal records and the impact on employment as well as losing jobs and income. Attempts to deal with the problems of alcohol via prohibition, created a greater social problem than alcohol and addiction; which affected people who didn't have a problem. Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
I am sure that proponent's of drug liberalisation can provide many studies that 'prove' that drugs are more harmful illegal than legal but I just do not buy it. They aren't, there are just less impacts and risks. Heroin as a drug is more or less as harmful if produced legally or illegally. The difference is that legally its easier for the user to control the risks and reduce the costs very significantly (Heroin is sold at profit to the NHS for 1/35th the price of its street equivalent. Its also especially for those not involved. A very significant number of people who have no interest in drugs and don't even know someone with a drug problem, experience robbery, muggings, burglary, theft etc by addicts seeking to fund their addiction to crack and heroin (Finding 80-200 a day, means committing generally 240-600 a day in crime). Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 10.53am
The amount of people I have personally seen had their lives f***ed up through drugs and wish they had never come into contact with them is enough for me. Me too, but I also grew up in an AA family, and saw those same kinds of stories from alcoholics as well - Its a problem. Banning the drugs in question hasn't helped any of those people either - And plenty of people have their lives f**ked up by the criminal justice factor, receiving criminal records because they like to get stoned rather than drunk, even in some cases spending time in prison. I completely disagree with you. I think your view is slanted by your politics and not the reality of drug abuse or the experience of those affected by drugs. Not so much my politics, but my experience with drugs and rehab. I'm with Jamie. It would be the single biggest blow you can deal to organised crime, and the current "war on drugs" doesn't seem to be having much of an impact. Plus you can argue that maybe the government doesn't have any business telling people what they can put into their bodies.
However, I would disagree with you because if I agreed with legalising drugs and then, as a result, one of the new legion of crackheads raped and killed a or members of my family following them 'mainlining some s***', I would feel pretty s***. Drugs use is unpredictable hence it is illegal. I wouldn't mess with that. Fair enough, but are our current laws actually preventing anyone from taking drugs? I'm not sure there are many people who are not taking drugs for the only reason that they are illegal.
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| We are goin up! Coulsdon 21 Jan 16 8.27pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 21 Jan 2016 8.06pm
It is your right to decide how you think. That is one of the things that is great about this country. However, I would disagree with you because if I agreed with legalising drugs and then, as a result, one of the new legion of crackheads raped and killed a or members of my family following them 'mainlining some s***', I would feel pretty s***. Drugs use is unpredictable hence it is illegal. I wouldn't mess with that.
My personal view is that it's ridiculous that ecstasy, cannabis and LSD are illegal. Cocaine not sure, heroine should be illegal because it really is extraordinarily damaging and also probably doesn't fund anything like the criminality (I may be completely wrong here) that more widespread drugs do.
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. |
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