Universal Basic Income

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Universal Basic Income

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elgrande bedford 08 Dec 15 9.12pm
Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.10pm Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.06pm Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.04pm Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.00pm Population of Finland,5.3 million..Population of uk 63.1million. Theres your answer. Why? Really.....How do we fund giving at least 50 million people £650 each month. From the 50 million. So you want me to pay More tax to fund people who don't pay any? always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 08 Dec 15 9.12pm

Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.10pm

Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.06pm

Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.04pm

Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.00pm

Population of Finland,5.3 million..Population of uk 63.1million.

Theres your answer.

Why?

Really.....How do we fund giving at least 50 million people £650 each month.

From the 50 million.

So you want me to pay More tax to fund people who don't pay any?

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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martin2412 Living The Dream 08 Dec 15 9.14pm
Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.06pm Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.04pm Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.00pm Population of Finland,5.3 million..Population of uk 63.1million. Theres your answer. Why? Really.....How do we fund giving at least 50 million people £650 each month. We fund it with the extra revenue that a larger population generates.
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martin2412

Living The Dream 08 Dec 15 9.14pm

Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.06pm

Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.04pm

Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.00pm

Population of Finland,5.3 million..Population of uk 63.1million.

Theres your answer.

Why?

Really.....How do we fund giving at least 50 million people £650 each month.

We fund it with the extra revenue that a larger population generates.

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rob1969 Banstead Surrey 08 Dec 15 9.15pm
Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2015 5.12pm Finland is thinking about trialling a system where they give all their citizens an income of 800 Euros a month and scrapping benefits. This was discussed on Newsnight last night and there are some issues with it, but in essence it sounds like a creative and simpler new way of running a nation's finances. From Forbes Economics & Finance: Finally, Someone Does Something Sensible: Finland To Bring In A Universal Basic Income There’s rather a lot of discussion around these days about the merits of a universal basic income. We have, for example, those who tell us that the robots are about to steal all our jobs and therefore we need to tax the capital owners in order to provide that basic income for all. Well, maybe, but it’s not going to work out that way. However, that universal basic income is still a startlingly good idea simply because it’s better than any of the various welfare systems we have at present. But do note: It works by being universal and basic. [Link] What do HOLers think? Edited by Seth (08 Dec 2015 5.15pm) Feels like deja vu as sure I read a similar article sometime (years?) ago. but
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rob1969

Banstead Surrey 08 Dec 15 9.15pm

Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2015 5.12pm

Finland is thinking about trialling a system where they give all their citizens an income of 800 Euros a month and scrapping benefits. This was discussed on Newsnight last night and there are some issues with it, but in essence it sounds like a creative and simpler new way of running a nation's finances.

From Forbes Economics & Finance:

Finally, Someone Does Something Sensible: Finland To Bring In A Universal Basic Income

There’s rather a lot of discussion around these days about the merits of a universal basic income. We have, for example, those who tell us that the robots are about to steal all our jobs and therefore we need to tax the capital owners in order to provide that basic income for all. Well, maybe, but it’s not going to work out that way. However, that universal basic income is still a startlingly good idea simply because it’s better than any of the various welfare systems we have at present. But do note: It works by being universal and basic.

[Link]

What do HOLers think?

Edited by Seth (08 Dec 2015 5.15pm)

Feels like deja vu as sure I read a similar article sometime (years?) ago.

but

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andyg york 08 Dec 15 9.15pm
This is very interesting. I like the idea but have a few questions from an initial read. The thing I can think of is regional disparities. Should London get extra because of the high housing costs etc? What about pensions? It also might be too easy for governments to keep increasing (particularly around election time!)
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andyg

york 08 Dec 15 9.15pm

This is very interesting. I like the idea but have a few questions from an initial read.

The thing I can think of is regional disparities. Should London get extra because of the high housing costs etc?

What about pensions?

It also might be too easy for governments to keep increasing (particularly around election time!)

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pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 08 Dec 15 9.44pm
Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.06pm Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.04pm Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.00pm Population of Finland,5.3 million..Population of uk 63.1million. Theres your answer. Why? Really.....How do we fund giving at least 50 million people £650 each month. As the UK's GNP funds you. "Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
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pefwin

Where you have to have an English ... 08 Dec 15 9.44pm

Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.06pm

Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.04pm

Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.00pm

Population of Finland,5.3 million..Population of uk 63.1million.

Theres your answer.

Why?

Really.....How do we fund giving at least 50 million people £650 each month.

As the UK's GNP funds you.

"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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Ketteridge Brighton 08 Dec 15 9.44pm
Comes down to the intention and how it is applied. If the cost of applying a targeted benefit is so high that given that benefit to everyone is cheaper than it seems sensible, but otherwise potentially you are just giving £6700 away to people who don't really need it. A house share in South Norwood comes in at £100 so £130 a week would not really give me the freedom for additional study/further education or voluntary work to improve my long term career prospects. Currently a lot of money from welfare is badly targeted, the main culprit being housing benefits which is largely use to inflate a housing and in particular the rental sector. It might give people more say in how that money was spent but pulling the plug on this would have huge financial consequences to the wider economy. If you set it at higher enough level to genuinely give people that freedom you are then talking about a re distributive tax so why not just target those that need it, or other measures reducing good quality social housing reduce tuition fess, apprenticeship etc. Sounds interesting though might need to look more into the rational One supporter of hacking argued that without it "you will do away with the courage and pluck of the game, and I will be bound to bring over a lot of Frenchmen who would beat you with a week's practice -Blackheath secretary at first meeting of the F.A
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Ketteridge

Brighton 08 Dec 15 9.44pm

Comes down to the intention and how it is applied. If the cost of applying a targeted benefit is so high that given that benefit to everyone is cheaper than it seems sensible, but otherwise potentially you are just giving £6700 away to people who don't really need it.
A house share in South Norwood comes in at £100 so £130 a week would not really give me the freedom for additional study/further education or voluntary work to improve my long term career prospects.
Currently a lot of money from welfare is badly targeted, the main culprit being housing benefits which is largely use to inflate a housing and in particular the rental sector. It might give people more say in how that money was spent but pulling the plug on this would have huge financial consequences to the wider economy.
If you set it at higher enough level to genuinely give people that freedom you are then talking about a re distributive tax so why not just target those that need it, or other measures reducing good quality social housing reduce tuition fess, apprenticeship etc.

Sounds interesting though might need to look more into the rational

One supporter of hacking argued that without it "you will do away with the courage and pluck of the game, and I will be bound to bring over a lot of Frenchmen who would beat you with a week's practice -Blackheath secretary at first meeting of the F.A

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Ketteridge Brighton 08 Dec 15 10.01pm
Quote andyg at 08 Dec 2015 9.15pm This is very interesting. I like the idea but have a few questions from an initial read. The thing I can think of is regional disparities. Should London get extra because of the high housing costs etc? What about pensions? It also might be too easy for governments to keep increasing (particularly around election time!) I was thinking that about regional disparities, but it could work to spread wealth and drive economies in some areas. If i am guaranteed £560 a month why not move to other regions with lower housing costs. Especially if cities encouraged employment sectors that were in high demand but were low paid. The alternative is that it would give a strong reason to social cleanse London of any poor people, 'you've got you basic income if you don't like it get on you bike' I am right in saying their is a new flat rate state pension about to come in of £150 a week or another way of putting it is £20 high then the article in forbes reckons we can get by on. One supporter of hacking argued that without it "you will do away with the courage and pluck of the game, and I will be bound to bring over a lot of Frenchmen who would beat you with a week's practice -Blackheath secretary at first meeting of the F.A
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Ketteridge

Brighton 08 Dec 15 10.01pm

Quote andyg at 08 Dec 2015 9.15pm

This is very interesting. I like the idea but have a few questions from an initial read.

The thing I can think of is regional disparities. Should London get extra because of the high housing costs etc?

What about pensions?

It also might be too easy for governments to keep increasing (particularly around election time!)

I was thinking that about regional disparities, but it could work to spread wealth and drive economies in some areas. If i am guaranteed £560 a month why not move to other regions with lower housing costs. Especially if cities encouraged employment sectors that were in high demand but were low paid.
The alternative is that it would give a strong reason to social cleanse London of any poor people, 'you've got you basic income if you don't like it get on you bike'

I am right in saying their is a new flat rate state pension about to come in of £150 a week or another way of putting it is £20 high then the article in forbes reckons we can get by on.

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Stirlingsays 08 Dec 15 10.09pm
Crazy idea to me. Welfare is for the needy. It should never go to the able. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Dec 15 10.09pm

Crazy idea to me.

Welfare is for the needy. It should never go to the able.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Holmesdale Nick South Croydon 09 Dec 15 7.17am
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Dec 2015 10.09pm Crazy idea to me. Welfare is for the needy. It should never go to the able. Those in work would pay it back through tax so not such a crazy idea. Fitter Fans Group 2. No. 17
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Holmesdale Nick

South Croydon 09 Dec 15 7.17am

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Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Dec 2015 10.09pm

Crazy idea to me.

Welfare is for the needy. It should never go to the able.

Those in work would pay it back through tax so not such a crazy idea.

Fitter Fans Group 2. No. 17

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matt_himself Matataland 09 Dec 15 7.36am
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Dec 2015 10.09pm Crazy idea to me. Welfare is for the needy. It should never go to the able. Agree. It's a social engineering proposal. Would have all sorts of negative implications. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 09 Dec 15 7.36am

Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Dec 2015 10.09pm

Crazy idea to me.

Welfare is for the needy. It should never go to the able.

Agree. It's a social engineering proposal. Would have all sorts of negative implications.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 09 Dec 15 7.59am
Friend of mine who's missus is Finnish ended up having to do lots of commuting when she had their first baby as the wide range of healthcare and social benefits that the Finns gave made it far better to have her child in Finland than it did the UK. They as the other Nordics seem to do have social and quality of life issues quite high up their agendas. There is no way the world that the '1%ers' in this country would ever allow this to happen, as they would simply see it as 'free money', rather than a progressive way of dealing with burden of benefits, tax credits, pensions et al... As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014
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The Sash

Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 09 Dec 15 7.59am

Friend of mine who's missus is Finnish ended up having to do lots of commuting when she had their first baby as the wide range of healthcare and social benefits that the Finns gave made it far better to have her child in Finland than it did the UK. They as the other Nordics seem to do have social and quality of life issues quite high up their agendas.

There is no way the world that the '1%ers' in this country would ever allow this to happen, as they would simply see it as 'free money', rather than a progressive way of dealing with burden of benefits, tax credits, pensions et al...

As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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jamiemartin721 Reading 09 Dec 15 8.18am
Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.12pm Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.10pm Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.06pm Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.04pm Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.00pm Population of Finland,5.3 million..Population of uk 63.1million. Theres your answer. Why? Really.....How do we fund giving at least 50 million people £650 each month. From the 50 million. So you want me to pay More tax to fund people who don't pay any? I think the idea is that you also receive the income as well - I like the idea in theory but I don't see it working in practice unless you can force companies to contribute their fair share. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 09 Dec 15 8.18am

Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.12pm

Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.10pm

Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.06pm

Quote pefwin at 08 Dec 2015 9.04pm

Quote elgrande at 08 Dec 2015 9.00pm

Population of Finland,5.3 million..Population of uk 63.1million.

Theres your answer.

Why?

Really.....How do we fund giving at least 50 million people £650 each month.

From the 50 million.

So you want me to pay More tax to fund people who don't pay any?

I think the idea is that you also receive the income as well - I like the idea in theory but I don't see it working in practice unless you can force companies to contribute their fair share.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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