The right to NOT vote

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The right to NOT vote

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bexleydave Barnehurst 29 Nov 15 12.50pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Nov 2015 12.25pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Nov 2015 9.04pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:- [Link] Now, how bonkers is that?...... That is a bit strange? But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing. Our system of voting is an improvement on Burma, definitely, it returns one of two parties, in my lifetime of 44 years, that have prioritised business interests over that of voters, and essentially rigged the electorial boundaries to their own favour, in a system where one party can return 8% of the vote, and win 12 seats, whilst a party that polls 18% of the vote wins one seat. So appreciate it, not really, its not really a democracy when only about 60% of the votes actually matter. True. And if you're a Tory living in a safe Labour seat or vice versa, your vote is effectively valueless. Except, of course, to show that only 24% of those eligible to vote actually voted for the current government. Presumably the other 76% wanted something else? Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)
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bexleydave

Barnehurst 29 Nov 15 12.50pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Nov 2015 12.25pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Nov 2015 9.04pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am

Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm

You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:-

[Link]

Now, how bonkers is that?......

That is a bit strange?

But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing.

Our system of voting is an improvement on Burma, definitely, it returns one of two parties, in my lifetime of 44 years, that have prioritised business interests over that of voters, and essentially rigged the electorial boundaries to their own favour, in a system where one party can return 8% of the vote, and win 12 seats, whilst a party that polls 18% of the vote wins one seat.

So appreciate it, not really, its not really a democracy when only about 60% of the votes actually matter.

True. And if you're a Tory living in a safe Labour seat or vice versa, your vote is effectively valueless.

Except, of course, to show that only 24% of those eligible to vote actually voted for the current government. Presumably the other 76% wanted something else?

Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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-TUX- Alphabettispaghetti 29 Nov 15 7.42pm
Quote Kermit8 at 28 Nov 2015 10.22am Burma has just spent the last 25 years for the right to vote and many other countries have to put up with fixed elections. Not something to be taken for granted what we have in the UK. In essence, nothing really changes for 99% of us. That's why i don't waste my time voting. Time to move forward together.
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-TUX-

Alphabettispaghetti 29 Nov 15 7.42pm

Quote Kermit8 at 28 Nov 2015 10.22am

Burma has just spent the last 25 years for the right to vote and many other countries have to put up with fixed elections.

Not something to be taken for granted what we have in the UK.

In essence, nothing really changes for 99% of us. That's why i don't waste my time voting.

Time to move forward together.

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Boooo 29 Nov 15 8.51pm
Cheers to those that offered sensible advice. I signed the register anyhow but some of the questions are Big Brother! Wanting my email, home number, mobile etc! Boc's, i only signed because my Mrs didn't eventually want the £80 turning into bailiff £100's. Will still never vote, no matter who has a vote, what country has a vote or how i'm entitled. This government obviously despise people without money, the poor, the elderly and worst of all, the disabled. This and most other Tory governments look down from their millionaire, nee billionaire (in some cases) ivory towers with such ill against the above mentioned that it makes me feel ill. Luckily the Lords still have some moral courage to stand up to these fcukers, although not for very much longer if Cameron gets his way. Anyhow, cheers. Jel I refuse to believe there are that many people out there that can't spell. Too f**king lazy, that's what I think.
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Boooo

29 Nov 15 8.51pm

Cheers to those that offered sensible advice. I signed the register anyhow but some of the questions are Big Brother! Wanting my email, home number, mobile etc! Boc's, i only signed because my Mrs didn't eventually want the £80 turning into bailiff £100's.

Will still never vote, no matter who has a vote, what country has a vote or how i'm entitled.

This government obviously despise people without money, the poor, the elderly and worst of all, the disabled.
This and most other Tory governments look down from their millionaire, nee billionaire (in some cases) ivory towers with such ill against the above mentioned that it makes me feel ill.
Luckily the Lords still have some moral courage to stand up to these fcukers, although not for very much longer if Cameron gets his way.

Anyhow, cheers.

Jel

I refuse to believe there are that many people out there that can't spell. Too f**king lazy, that's what I think.

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The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 30 Nov 15 1.10pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:- [Link] Now, how bonkers is that?...... That is a bit strange? But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing. Disingenuous example though Hoof. Goes without saying that living in a 'democratic' (and I use the term very loosely) system is better than a military dictatorship. Our system of voting however is hardly democratic or inclusive or even representative. Its kept as is it to enable the partisan political system and parties to survive. As Mark Twain so (rightly imho) said ' If voting actually changed anything they wouldn't let us do it'. All people do every 5 years is vote to subject themselves and their families to social genetic engineering. I don't vote and all this 'you cant then moan' or ' you should spoil your ballot' is utter bollocks... People who do vote under the current system are the problem, the fact we cant have a 'none of the above' option is the problem....people who vote 'tactically' are part of the problem (these boards where littered with disaffected Labourites voting Lib-Dem to keep the Tories out election before last - how did that work out for them ?). As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014
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The Sash

Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 30 Nov 15 1.10pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am

Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm

You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:-

[Link]

Now, how bonkers is that?......

That is a bit strange?

But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing.

Disingenuous example though Hoof.

Goes without saying that living in a 'democratic' (and I use the term very loosely) system is better than a military dictatorship.

Our system of voting however is hardly democratic or inclusive or even representative. Its kept as is it to enable the partisan political system and parties to survive.

As Mark Twain so (rightly imho) said ' If voting actually changed anything they wouldn't let us do it'.

All people do every 5 years is vote to subject themselves and their families to social genetic engineering.

I don't vote and all this 'you cant then moan' or ' you should spoil your ballot' is utter bollocks...

People who do vote under the current system are the problem, the fact we cant have a 'none of the above' option is the problem....people who vote 'tactically' are part of the problem (these boards where littered with disaffected Labourites voting Lib-Dem to keep the Tories out election before last - how did that work out for them ?).

As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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sa_eagle Just outside Cape Town 30 Nov 15 1.38pm
Quote Boooo at 27 Nov 2015 8.04pm Whatever the right or wrongs in people's eyes, i have never voted in the near 32 years i've been allowed. I have an opinion and because of that, i just don't vote. I don't even want to protest vote, i personally see no point in it. Anyhow. I have received a numerous letters from my local Council culminating in a warning of an £80 fine if i refuse to register. Having had a letter from the same Council telling me that if i didn't register, i would lose my right to vote, a fact i accepted until today. Does anyone know if i can refuse outright, even have the right to refuse? I'm not after the right and wrongs of not voting, just validity of my question. Cheers. Looking at the link that Becky (a few posts below the OP), it appears that any fine is a civil fine and as such is not enforceable. It would cost the local aauthority too much to pursue it through the courts and I doubt it would be considered as being in the public's interest to pursue. Cynic or realist? It's a fine line!
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sa_eagle

Just outside Cape Town 30 Nov 15 1.38pm

Quote Boooo at 27 Nov 2015 8.04pm

Whatever the right or wrongs in people's eyes, i have never voted in the near 32 years i've been allowed. I have an opinion and because of that, i just don't vote. I don't even want to protest vote, i personally see no point in it.
Anyhow. I have received a numerous letters from my local Council culminating in a warning of an £80 fine if i refuse to register. Having had a letter from the same Council telling me that if i didn't register, i would lose my right to vote, a fact i accepted until today.
Does anyone know if i can refuse outright, even have the right to refuse?

I'm not after the right and wrongs of not voting, just validity of my question.

Cheers.

Looking at the link that Becky (a few posts below the OP), it appears that any fine is a civil fine and as such is not enforceable. It would cost the local aauthority too much to pursue it through the courts and I doubt it would be considered as being in the public's interest to pursue.

Cynic or realist? It's a fine line!

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jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Nov 15 1.49pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Nov 2015 12.25pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Nov 2015 9.04pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:- [Link] Now, how bonkers is that?...... That is a bit strange? But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing. Our system of voting is an improvement on Burma, definitely, it returns one of two parties, in my lifetime of 44 years, that have prioritised business interests over that of voters, and essentially rigged the electorial boundaries to their own favour, in a system where one party can return 8% of the vote, and win 12 seats, whilst a party that polls 18% of the vote wins one seat. So appreciate it, not really, its not really a democracy when only about 60% of the votes actually matter. True. And if you're a Tory living in a safe Labour seat or vice versa, your vote is effectively valueless. True, and that is unacceptable (I don't vote Labour anyhow), but the real issue isn't about Labour and Conservative or Lib Dem voters, who arguably all are represented in Parliament to some degree, its about everyone else, who isn't (even if I don't agree with their political views). Any system of democracy where some votes are more equal than others, is inherently undemocratic. Each vote must carry the same significance for it to be democratic, irrespective of whether we like the outcome. If 5% of the country are voting BNP, then that 5% deserves representation. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 30 Nov 15 1.49pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Nov 2015 12.25pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Nov 2015 9.04pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am

Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm

You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:-

[Link]

Now, how bonkers is that?......

That is a bit strange?

But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing.

So appreciate it, not really, its not really a democracy when only about 60% of the votes actually matter.

True. And if you're a Tory living in a safe Labour seat or vice versa, your vote is effectively valueless.

True, and that is unacceptable (I don't vote Labour anyhow), but the real issue isn't about Labour and Conservative or Lib Dem voters, who arguably all are represented in Parliament to some degree, its about everyone else, who isn't (even if I don't agree with their political views).

Any system of democracy where some votes are more equal than others, is inherently undemocratic. Each vote must carry the same significance for it to be democratic, irrespective of whether we like the outcome. If 5% of the country are voting BNP, then that 5% deserves representation.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 30 Nov 15 1.53pm
Quote Boooo at 29 Nov 2015 8.51pm This government obviously despise people without money, the poor, the elderly and worst of all, the disabled. This and most other Tory governments look down from their millionaire, nee billionaire (in some cases) ivory towers with such ill against the above mentioned that it makes me feel ill. Total and unadulterated hogwash and piffle to boot. That's all I will say about this torrent of bile. No further comment necessary. BOOOOOOO to you.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 30 Nov 15 1.53pm

Quote Boooo at 29 Nov 2015 8.51pm

This government obviously despise people without money, the poor, the elderly and worst of all, the disabled.
This and most other Tory governments look down from their millionaire, nee billionaire (in some cases) ivory towers with such ill against the above mentioned that it makes me feel ill.

Total and unadulterated hogwash and piffle to boot.

That's all I will say about this torrent of bile.
No further comment necessary.

BOOOOOOO to you.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Nov 15 1.55pm
Quote The Sash at 30 Nov 2015 1.10pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:- [Link] Now, how bonkers is that?...... That is a bit strange? But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing. Disingenuous example though Hoof. Goes without saying that living in a 'democratic' (and I use the term very loosely) system is better than a military dictatorship. Our system of voting however is hardly democratic or inclusive or even representative. Its kept as is it to enable the partisan political system and parties to survive. As Mark Twain so (rightly imho) said ' If voting actually changed anything they wouldn't let us do it'. All people do every 5 years is vote to subject themselves and their families to social genetic engineering. I don't vote and all this 'you cant then moan' or ' you should spoil your ballot' is utter bollocks... People who do vote under the current system are the problem, the fact we cant have a 'none of the above' option is the problem....people who vote 'tactically' are part of the problem (these boards where littered with disaffected Labourites voting Lib-Dem to keep the Tories out election before last - how did that work out for them ?). Usually, but it really does depend on the dictator in question and where you are in relation to the balance of power. Dictatorships often succeed because of their ability to bring stability and security to otherwise troubled regions. I wouldn't say Russia has been wildly improved by Democracy for example. Its generally true, that democracy tends towards avoiding tyranny, but its not entirely true. Our political system is one of ensuring 'a reliable corporate friendly continuity and pacification of threats to the system'. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 30 Nov 15 1.55pm

Quote The Sash at 30 Nov 2015 1.10pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am

Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm

You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:-

[Link]

Now, how bonkers is that?......

That is a bit strange?

But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing.

Disingenuous example though Hoof.

Goes without saying that living in a 'democratic' (and I use the term very loosely) system is better than a military dictatorship.

Our system of voting however is hardly democratic or inclusive or even representative. Its kept as is it to enable the partisan political system and parties to survive.

As Mark Twain so (rightly imho) said ' If voting actually changed anything they wouldn't let us do it'.

All people do every 5 years is vote to subject themselves and their families to social genetic engineering.

I don't vote and all this 'you cant then moan' or ' you should spoil your ballot' is utter bollocks...

Usually, but it really does depend on the dictator in question and where you are in relation to the balance of power. Dictatorships often succeed because of their ability to bring stability and security to otherwise troubled regions.

I wouldn't say Russia has been wildly improved by Democracy for example. Its generally true, that democracy tends towards avoiding tyranny, but its not entirely true.

Our political system is one of ensuring 'a reliable corporate friendly continuity and pacification of threats to the system'.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Nov 15 1.56pm
Quote bexleydave at 29 Nov 2015 12.50pm Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Nov 2015 12.25pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Nov 2015 9.04pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:- [Link] Now, how bonkers is that?...... That is a bit strange? But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing. Our system of voting is an improvement on Burma, definitely, it returns one of two parties, in my lifetime of 44 years, that have prioritised business interests over that of voters, and essentially rigged the electorial boundaries to their own favour, in a system where one party can return 8% of the vote, and win 12 seats, whilst a party that polls 18% of the vote wins one seat. So appreciate it, not really, its not really a democracy when only about 60% of the votes actually matter. True. And if you're a Tory living in a safe Labour seat or vice versa, your vote is effectively valueless. Except, of course, to show that only 24% of those eligible to vote actually voted for the current government. Presumably the other 76% wanted something else? The worrying thing isn't those of the 76% who vote Liberal Democrat or Labour, its that block that voted for something different, who other than a Green MP and a UKIP MP, have no representation in parliament at all. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 30 Nov 15 1.56pm

Quote bexleydave at 29 Nov 2015 12.50pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Nov 2015 12.25pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Nov 2015 9.04pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am

Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm

You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:-

[Link]

Now, how bonkers is that?......

That is a bit strange?

But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing.

So appreciate it, not really, its not really a democracy when only about 60% of the votes actually matter.

True. And if you're a Tory living in a safe Labour seat or vice versa, your vote is effectively valueless.

Except, of course, to show that only 24% of those eligible to vote actually voted for the current government. Presumably the other 76% wanted something else?

The worrying thing isn't those of the 76% who vote Liberal Democrat or Labour, its that block that voted for something different, who other than a Green MP and a UKIP MP, have no representation in parliament at all.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Nov 15 1.58pm
Quote Willo at 30 Nov 2015 1.53pm Quote Boooo at 29 Nov 2015 8.51pm This government obviously despise people without money, the poor, the elderly and worst of all, the disabled. This and most other Tory governments look down from their millionaire, nee billionaire (in some cases) ivory towers with such ill against the above mentioned that it makes me feel ill. Total and unadulterated hogwash and piffle to boot. That's all I will say about this torrent of bile. No further comment necessary. BOOOOOOO to you. I'd say the same was probably even more true of the last labour government, they just 'obfuscated' it more. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 30 Nov 15 1.58pm

Quote Willo at 30 Nov 2015 1.53pm

Total and unadulterated hogwash and piffle to boot.

That's all I will say about this torrent of bile.
No further comment necessary.

BOOOOOOO to you.

I'd say the same was probably even more true of the last labour government, they just 'obfuscated' it more.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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npn Crowborough 30 Nov 15 2.17pm
It's time for PR - and anyone who claims we had a referendum and rejected it is a buffoon! The only downside is it effectively means independents have next to no chance, and that local representation is no more (but I'd suggest that's what local councils are for in any case). The referendum was a chance for the LibDems to really add something, but they folded, and gave in to a question roughly equivalent to "would you like to keep the FPTP system, or would you like us to smear your upper lip with pig excrement?"
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npn

Crowborough 30 Nov 15 2.17pm

It's time for PR - and anyone who claims we had a referendum and rejected it is a buffoon!

The only downside is it effectively means independents have next to no chance, and that local representation is no more (but I'd suggest that's what local councils are for in any case).

The referendum was a chance for the LibDems to really add something, but they folded, and gave in to a question roughly equivalent to "would you like to keep the FPTP system, or would you like us to smear your upper lip with pig excrement?"

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Hoof Hearted 30 Nov 15 2.54pm
Quote The Sash at 30 Nov 2015 1.10pm Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:- [Link] Now, how bonkers is that?...... That is a bit strange? But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing. Disingenuous example though Hoof. Don't shoot the messenger - Kermit started it! FFS I get the blame for everything on here!
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Hoof Hearted 30 Nov 15 2.54pm

Quote The Sash at 30 Nov 2015 1.10pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 28 Nov 2015 10.29am

Quote becky at 27 Nov 2015 8.59pm

You are not legally required to register to vote, but your local authority has the right to impose a penalty on you if you fail to do so:-

[Link]

Now, how bonkers is that?......

That is a bit strange?

But as Kermit quite rightly points out, places like Burma highlight how lucky we are to have our system of voting, yet some people don't appreciate it.... that is the strangest thing.

Disingenuous example though Hoof.

Don't shoot the messenger - Kermit started it!

FFS I get the blame for everything on here!

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