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Palestinians inciting violence
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 serial thriller  The Promised Land 10 Oct 15 4.15pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 3.17pm
Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 1.26pm
Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 12.44pm
Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 12.04pm
Whilst we all know where this thread will end up - nowhere - I still find myself feeling the need to at least challenge some of the nonsense already peddled on this thread. First and foremost - and I recommend reading this sentence a few times so you fully process it and don't start claiming that I'm some terrorist sympathiser - what happened in Israel is a tragedy, and Palestinian attacks on civilian areas is something morally indefensible in my opinion. But the idea that they are inciting violence? Well I guess it depends upon what exactly you consider as inciting violence. Shall we remove all context for these attacks and suppose that they are committed by psychopaths with no purpose other than to aggravate the peaceful state of Israel? Or shall we acknowledge that even since the conflict fell down the pecking order in the British media, Israeli security forces have continued to confine children in prisons without trial, have continued to aggressively police Palestinian neighbours, refusing entry to certain areas of Gaza for people who have lived in said areas for generations? Shall we ignore the fact that on the West Bank Israelis continue to illegally settle their people on land which isn't theirs under international law? Maybe we should also ignore the fact that Gaza, one of the most impoverished areas in the world, is being refused vital medical, constructional and food supplies because of the ludicrously strict blockade imposed by Israelis? Let's be clear then. The Palestinians aren't inciting violence, they are committing it. It is very much the Israelis who have incited recent actions, and the sad thing is these atrocities are only ever reported in the mainstream media once rockets and bombs are fired. The only way in which Palestinians can hope to achieve statehood is by moving beyond committing terrorist acts, rather than allowing and encouraging these types of attacks on innocent people. The World, quite rightly, cannot allow these people to be a formal state until they are able to cohabit with Israel and act like a proper state.
In fact, formally, we've had 'peace' since the last siege. Yes, you have had nutters on both sides committing isolated acts of violence, be it the killing of a young child by Jewish extremists on the West Bank, or Palestinian suicide bombers in Jerusalem. Yet as I said, while you have had formal peace from both Fatah and Hamas in Palestine, the IDF, affiliated to the Israeli government, continues to kill people, sentence them to prison without trial and refuse them entry to their communities. 'Peace' is an incredibly loose term when we are talking about ceasefire in this conflict as more often than not what it entails is a more insidious form of warfare waged by Israel.
I understand the history and the above in no way changes my view that if the Palestinians wanted to be taken seriously, they would act differently. All you are doing is justifying terrorism.
Tell me Matt, surely when we are discussing a war between a UK-supported, liberal democracy and a disparate state semi-governed by a militant organisation, it is the former who we have to be more critical of, because they are supposed to live up to the moral standards which we ourselves hold for democracy? Therefore it is surely incumbent on Israel, not Palestine, to show the moral courage to stop killing people and engage in reasoned diplomacy and start acting like the forward-thinking nation it claims to be?
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| oldcodger 10 Oct 15 4.29pm |
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This is sad to hear. It's the innocent people on both sides who end up suffering.
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pefwin  Where you have to have an English ... 10 Oct 15 4.40pm |
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Quote Oliver at 10 Oct 2015 3.46pm
Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 12.44pm
Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 12.04pm
Whilst we all know where this thread will end up - nowhere - I still find myself feeling the need to at least challenge some of the nonsense already peddled on this thread. First and foremost - and I recommend reading this sentence a few times so you fully process it and don't start claiming that I'm some terrorist sympathiser - what happened in Israel is a tragedy, and Palestinian attacks on civilian areas is something morally indefensible in my opinion. But the idea that they are inciting violence? Well I guess it depends upon what exactly you consider as inciting violence. Shall we remove all context for these attacks and suppose that they are committed by psychopaths with no purpose other than to aggravate the peaceful state of Israel? Or shall we acknowledge that even since the conflict fell down the pecking order in the British media, Israeli security forces have continued to confine children in prisons without trial, have continued to aggressively police Palestinian neighbours, refusing entry to certain areas of Gaza for people who have lived in said areas for generations? Shall we ignore the fact that on the West Bank Israelis continue to illegally settle their people on land which isn't theirs under international law? Maybe we should also ignore the fact that Gaza, one of the most impoverished areas in the world, is being refused vital medical, constructional and food supplies because of the ludicrously strict blockade imposed by Israelis? Let's be clear then. The Palestinians aren't inciting violence, they are committing it. It is very much the Israelis who have incited recent actions, and the sad thing is these atrocities are only ever reported in the mainstream media once rockets and bombs are fired. The only way in which Palestinians can hope to achieve statehood is by moving beyond committing terrorist acts, rather than allowing and encouraging these types of attacks on innocent people. The World, quite rightly, cannot allow these people to be a formal state until they are able to cohabit with Israel and act like a proper state.
Does that mean the illegal Israeli settler who firebombed and murdered a 18 month old child last month will be the next Prime Minister? To be honest the UK should take partial blame for not stamping out Israeli terrorism once and for all after WW2; whilst only 7% of Palestine was occupied.
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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| matt_himself Matataland 10 Oct 15 5.00pm |
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Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 4.15pm
Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 3.17pm
Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 1.26pm
Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 12.44pm
Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 12.04pm
Whilst we all know where this thread will end up - nowhere - I still find myself feeling the need to at least challenge some of the nonsense already peddled on this thread. First and foremost - and I recommend reading this sentence a few times so you fully process it and don't start claiming that I'm some terrorist sympathiser - what happened in Israel is a tragedy, and Palestinian attacks on civilian areas is something morally indefensible in my opinion. But the idea that they are inciting violence? Well I guess it depends upon what exactly you consider as inciting violence. Shall we remove all context for these attacks and suppose that they are committed by psychopaths with no purpose other than to aggravate the peaceful state of Israel? Or shall we acknowledge that even since the conflict fell down the pecking order in the British media, Israeli security forces have continued to confine children in prisons without trial, have continued to aggressively police Palestinian neighbours, refusing entry to certain areas of Gaza for people who have lived in said areas for generations? Shall we ignore the fact that on the West Bank Israelis continue to illegally settle their people on land which isn't theirs under international law? Maybe we should also ignore the fact that Gaza, one of the most impoverished areas in the world, is being refused vital medical, constructional and food supplies because of the ludicrously strict blockade imposed by Israelis? Let's be clear then. The Palestinians aren't inciting violence, they are committing it. It is very much the Israelis who have incited recent actions, and the sad thing is these atrocities are only ever reported in the mainstream media once rockets and bombs are fired. The only way in which Palestinians can hope to achieve statehood is by moving beyond committing terrorist acts, rather than allowing and encouraging these types of attacks on innocent people. The World, quite rightly, cannot allow these people to be a formal state until they are able to cohabit with Israel and act like a proper state.
In fact, formally, we've had 'peace' since the last siege. Yes, you have had nutters on both sides committing isolated acts of violence, be it the killing of a young child by Jewish extremists on the West Bank, or Palestinian suicide bombers in Jerusalem. Yet as I said, while you have had formal peace from both Fatah and Hamas in Palestine, the IDF, affiliated to the Israeli government, continues to kill people, sentence them to prison without trial and refuse them entry to their communities. 'Peace' is an incredibly loose term when we are talking about ceasefire in this conflict as more often than not what it entails is a more insidious form of warfare waged by Israel.
I understand the history and the above in no way changes my view that if the Palestinians wanted to be taken seriously, they would act differently. All you are doing is justifying terrorism.
Tell me Matt, surely when we are discussing a war between a UK-supported, liberal democracy and a disparate state semi-governed by a militant organisation, it is the former who we have to be more critical of, because they are supposed to live up to the moral standards which we ourselves hold for democracy? Therefore it is surely incumbent on Israel, not Palestine, to show the moral courage to stop killing people and engage in reasoned diplomacy and start acting like the forward-thinking nation it claims to be? israel has a right to defend its citizens against lone wolf attacks. Ask yourself, if you were an Israeli citizen seeing rockets land near your village and family or friends stabbed, would you be wanting Your government to be lenient on the Palestinians? The simple fact is that you cannot judge the Israeli/Palestinian situation on your hackneyed, student ideals. The real situation is far more complicated than you make out. The fact is that the seemingly the only language that Palestinian 'leaders' understand is hard force and whilst they continue to kill innocent Israelis and then cowardly hide in areas surrounded by their own innocent population, the IDF will continue to smash this barbaric status quo in order to protect its own interests. The Palestinian state offers nothing for its poor, populace. I genuinely feel for the ordinary Palestinian as they are led by cowards who are soaking up rich Arab state money in order to continue the cycle of violence. Having pictures of dead Palestinian babies helps the Arab cause by demonising Israel. The fact that you and your sort out the blame solely on the shoulders of Israel belies your lack of understanding of the situation and a myopic World view.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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Kermit8  Hevon 10 Oct 15 10.52pm |
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Two kids shot dead by Israeli soldiers today. Here we go again.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Oct 15 11.01pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 12.44pm
Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 12.04pm
Whilst we all know where this thread will end up - nowhere - I still find myself feeling the need to at least challenge some of the nonsense already peddled on this thread. First and foremost - and I recommend reading this sentence a few times so you fully process it and don't start claiming that I'm some terrorist sympathiser - what happened in Israel is a tragedy, and Palestinian attacks on civilian areas is something morally indefensible in my opinion. But the idea that they are inciting violence? Well I guess it depends upon what exactly you consider as inciting violence. Shall we remove all context for these attacks and suppose that they are committed by psychopaths with no purpose other than to aggravate the peaceful state of Israel? Or shall we acknowledge that even since the conflict fell down the pecking order in the British media, Israeli security forces have continued to confine children in prisons without trial, have continued to aggressively police Palestinian neighbours, refusing entry to certain areas of Gaza for people who have lived in said areas for generations? Shall we ignore the fact that on the West Bank Israelis continue to illegally settle their people on land which isn't theirs under international law? Maybe we should also ignore the fact that Gaza, one of the most impoverished areas in the world, is being refused vital medical, constructional and food supplies because of the ludicrously strict blockade imposed by Israelis? Let's be clear then. The Palestinians aren't inciting violence, they are committing it. It is very much the Israelis who have incited recent actions, and the sad thing is these atrocities are only ever reported in the mainstream media once rockets and bombs are fired. The only way in which Palestinians can hope to achieve statehood is by moving beyond committing terrorist acts, rather than allowing and encouraging these types of attacks on innocent people. The World, quite rightly, cannot allow these people to be a formal state until they are able to cohabit with Israel and act like a proper state. Well it worked for Israel. As far as Palestine goes they don't really have too many options. Peace didn't bring them statehood.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Straightbackup Crystal Palace 11 Oct 15 12.55am |
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Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 12.04pm
Whilst we all know where this thread will end up - nowhere - I still find myself feeling the need to at least challenge some of the nonsense already peddled on this thread. First and foremost - and I recommend reading this sentence a few times so you fully process it and don't start claiming that I'm some terrorist sympathiser - what happened in Israel is a tragedy, and Palestinian attacks on civilian areas is something morally indefensible in my opinion. But the idea that they are inciting violence? Well I guess it depends upon what exactly you consider as inciting violence. Shall we remove all context for these attacks and suppose that they are committed by psychopaths with no purpose other than to aggravate the peaceful state of Israel? Or shall we acknowledge that even since the conflict fell down the pecking order in the British media, Israeli security forces have continued to confine children in prisons without trial, have continued to aggressively police Palestinian neighbours, refusing entry to certain areas of Gaza for people who have lived in said areas for generations? Shall we ignore the fact that on the West Bank Israelis continue to illegally settle their people on land which isn't theirs under international law? Maybe we should also ignore the fact that Gaza, one of the most impoverished areas in the world, is being refused vital medical, constructional and food supplies because of the ludicrously strict blockade imposed by Israelis? Let's be clear then. The Palestinians aren't inciting violence, they are committing it. It is very much the Israelis who have incited recent actions, and the sad thing is these atrocities are only ever reported in the mainstream media once rockets and bombs are fired.
'Impulse' advert- Advertising campaign whose slogan is expected to change in the light of Rajiv Gandhi's assassination: 'If someone you don't know suddenly offers you flowers- run like f***!' |
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Oct 15 1.44am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Oct 2015 11.01pm
Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 12.44pm
Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 12.04pm
Whilst we all know where this thread will end up - nowhere - I still find myself feeling the need to at least challenge some of the nonsense already peddled on this thread. First and foremost - and I recommend reading this sentence a few times so you fully process it and don't start claiming that I'm some terrorist sympathiser - what happened in Israel is a tragedy, and Palestinian attacks on civilian areas is something morally indefensible in my opinion. But the idea that they are inciting violence? Well I guess it depends upon what exactly you consider as inciting violence. Shall we remove all context for these attacks and suppose that they are committed by psychopaths with no purpose other than to aggravate the peaceful state of Israel? Or shall we acknowledge that even since the conflict fell down the pecking order in the British media, Israeli security forces have continued to confine children in prisons without trial, have continued to aggressively police Palestinian neighbours, refusing entry to certain areas of Gaza for people who have lived in said areas for generations? Shall we ignore the fact that on the West Bank Israelis continue to illegally settle their people on land which isn't theirs under international law? Maybe we should also ignore the fact that Gaza, one of the most impoverished areas in the world, is being refused vital medical, constructional and food supplies because of the ludicrously strict blockade imposed by Israelis? Let's be clear then. The Palestinians aren't inciting violence, they are committing it. It is very much the Israelis who have incited recent actions, and the sad thing is these atrocities are only ever reported in the mainstream media once rockets and bombs are fired. The only way in which Palestinians can hope to achieve statehood is by moving beyond committing terrorist acts, rather than allowing and encouraging these types of attacks on innocent people. The World, quite rightly, cannot allow these people to be a formal state until they are able to cohabit with Israel and act like a proper state. Well it worked for Israel. As far as Palestine goes they don't really have too many options. Peace didn't bring them statehood. But it didn't work for Ireland (IRA) Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom albeit with certain caveats for Dublin/Stormont.
Pro USA & Israel |
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| matt_himself Matataland 11 Oct 15 7.47am |
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Quote Kermit8 at 10 Oct 2015 10.52pm
Two kids shot dead by Israeli soldiers today. Here we go again.
They are hidden in areas populated by ordinary people, knowing that Israeli bombs aimed at them will slaughter their own. They are no doubt on the phone to Riyadh and Doha, arranging more money to be sent to them to continue the 'struggle'. Blaming Israel for this is too simplistic and wrong. The Palestinian leaders need to be held up for scrutiny.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| matt_himself Matataland 11 Oct 15 7.50am |
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Quote Jimenez at 11 Oct 2015 1.44am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Oct 2015 11.01pm
Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 12.44pm
Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 12.04pm
Whilst we all know where this thread will end up - nowhere - I still find myself feeling the need to at least challenge some of the nonsense already peddled on this thread. First and foremost - and I recommend reading this sentence a few times so you fully process it and don't start claiming that I'm some terrorist sympathiser - what happened in Israel is a tragedy, and Palestinian attacks on civilian areas is something morally indefensible in my opinion. But the idea that they are inciting violence? Well I guess it depends upon what exactly you consider as inciting violence. Shall we remove all context for these attacks and suppose that they are committed by psychopaths with no purpose other than to aggravate the peaceful state of Israel? Or shall we acknowledge that even since the conflict fell down the pecking order in the British media, Israeli security forces have continued to confine children in prisons without trial, have continued to aggressively police Palestinian neighbours, refusing entry to certain areas of Gaza for people who have lived in said areas for generations? Shall we ignore the fact that on the West Bank Israelis continue to illegally settle their people on land which isn't theirs under international law? Maybe we should also ignore the fact that Gaza, one of the most impoverished areas in the world, is being refused vital medical, constructional and food supplies because of the ludicrously strict blockade imposed by Israelis? Let's be clear then. The Palestinians aren't inciting violence, they are committing it. It is very much the Israelis who have incited recent actions, and the sad thing is these atrocities are only ever reported in the mainstream media once rockets and bombs are fired. The only way in which Palestinians can hope to achieve statehood is by moving beyond committing terrorist acts, rather than allowing and encouraging these types of attacks on innocent people. The World, quite rightly, cannot allow these people to be a formal state until they are able to cohabit with Israel and act like a proper state. Well it worked for Israel. As far as Palestine goes they don't really have too many options. Peace didn't bring them statehood. But it didn't work for Ireland (IRA) Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom albeit with certain caveats for Dublin/Stormont.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 11 Oct 15 10.30am |
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Quote Jimenez at 11 Oct 2015 1.44am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Oct 2015 11.01pm
Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 12.44pm
Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 12.04pm
Whilst we all know where this thread will end up - nowhere - I still find myself feeling the need to at least challenge some of the nonsense already peddled on this thread. First and foremost - and I recommend reading this sentence a few times so you fully process it and don't start claiming that I'm some terrorist sympathiser - what happened in Israel is a tragedy, and Palestinian attacks on civilian areas is something morally indefensible in my opinion. But the idea that they are inciting violence? Well I guess it depends upon what exactly you consider as inciting violence. Shall we remove all context for these attacks and suppose that they are committed by psychopaths with no purpose other than to aggravate the peaceful state of Israel? Or shall we acknowledge that even since the conflict fell down the pecking order in the British media, Israeli security forces have continued to confine children in prisons without trial, have continued to aggressively police Palestinian neighbours, refusing entry to certain areas of Gaza for people who have lived in said areas for generations? Shall we ignore the fact that on the West Bank Israelis continue to illegally settle their people on land which isn't theirs under international law? Maybe we should also ignore the fact that Gaza, one of the most impoverished areas in the world, is being refused vital medical, constructional and food supplies because of the ludicrously strict blockade imposed by Israelis? Let's be clear then. The Palestinians aren't inciting violence, they are committing it. It is very much the Israelis who have incited recent actions, and the sad thing is these atrocities are only ever reported in the mainstream media once rockets and bombs are fired. The only way in which Palestinians can hope to achieve statehood is by moving beyond committing terrorist acts, rather than allowing and encouraging these types of attacks on innocent people. The World, quite rightly, cannot allow these people to be a formal state until they are able to cohabit with Israel and act like a proper state. Well it worked for Israel. As far as Palestine goes they don't really have too many options. Peace didn't bring them statehood. But it didn't work for Ireland (IRA) Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom albeit with certain caveats for Dublin/Stormont. Well it kind of did in terms of Ireland itself, and of course establishing Sinn Fein and republican politics.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 11 Oct 15 10.33am |
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Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 7.50am
Quote Jimenez at 11 Oct 2015 1.44am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Oct 2015 11.01pm
Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 12.44pm
Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 12.04pm
Whilst we all know where this thread will end up - nowhere - I still find myself feeling the need to at least challenge some of the nonsense already peddled on this thread. First and foremost - and I recommend reading this sentence a few times so you fully process it and don't start claiming that I'm some terrorist sympathiser - what happened in Israel is a tragedy, and Palestinian attacks on civilian areas is something morally indefensible in my opinion. But the idea that they are inciting violence? Well I guess it depends upon what exactly you consider as inciting violence. Shall we remove all context for these attacks and suppose that they are committed by psychopaths with no purpose other than to aggravate the peaceful state of Israel? Or shall we acknowledge that even since the conflict fell down the pecking order in the British media, Israeli security forces have continued to confine children in prisons without trial, have continued to aggressively police Palestinian neighbours, refusing entry to certain areas of Gaza for people who have lived in said areas for generations? Shall we ignore the fact that on the West Bank Israelis continue to illegally settle their people on land which isn't theirs under international law? Maybe we should also ignore the fact that Gaza, one of the most impoverished areas in the world, is being refused vital medical, constructional and food supplies because of the ludicrously strict blockade imposed by Israelis? Let's be clear then. The Palestinians aren't inciting violence, they are committing it. It is very much the Israelis who have incited recent actions, and the sad thing is these atrocities are only ever reported in the mainstream media once rockets and bombs are fired. The only way in which Palestinians can hope to achieve statehood is by moving beyond committing terrorist acts, rather than allowing and encouraging these types of attacks on innocent people. The World, quite rightly, cannot allow these people to be a formal state until they are able to cohabit with Israel and act like a proper state. Well it worked for Israel. As far as Palestine goes they don't really have too many options. Peace didn't bring them statehood. But it didn't work for Ireland (IRA) Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom albeit with certain caveats for Dublin/Stormont.
Doesn't always work - but I don't really see that there is really much of an alternative either. Its a deadlocked struggle, in which both sides have been reduced to increasingly vicious criminality.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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