Train strike and the future of rail workers

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Train strike and the future of rail workers

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homes New Eltham 12 Jul 15 10.29am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Jul 2015 9.53am Quote nickyf at 12 Jul 2015 9.15am Quote homes at 11 Jul 2015 9.53pm Quote serial thriller at 10 Jul 2015 11.11am Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jul 2015 10.49am Progress? Rail Unions objected to ticket staff being replaced by ticket machines, now they want guards to continue to control doors when it can be done automatically or by the passengers themselves. Buffet cars are a luxury and more passengers can be carried without them... they will still be able to employ people to sell stuff from trolleys. Everyone complains about the cost of rail travel but when measures are implemented to cut costs, the Unions try to block them by causing travel disruption and misery to the passengers who pay their wages. You know what else is a luxury? Leg room. Actually seats in general are too. Why aren't we just making standing room only, non-air-conditioned carriages where we can fit 300 people in each. That would clearly be the most efficient way of doing things Why are rail prices going up? Is it because of buffet cars, ticket barriers etc which have been in existence for decades? or maybe it's due to the rail services being privatised, which has lead to £200 million payouts to shareholders, almost exclusively paid for by the £4 billion subsidy the tax payer handed out. So, in layman's terms, our taxes were given to rail companies, and instead of lowering fares or improving services, the shareholders decided to cash in themselves! No wonder the majority of the public want the railways renationalised. Spot on, completely agree with this. Ridiculous privatising the rail so short sighted ------------------------------------------------------- two excellent worded post which show the government have divided the public. privatisation and greed has led to a bad service and instead of improving service and lowering fares,they should be telling the share holders that's your lot they keep the greed going at the cost of staff jobs. Edited by nickyf (12 Jul 2015 9.17am) I'm not saying the rail companies cannot do better BUT they took over a crumbling outdated outmoded inefficient BR track signals and rolling stock. It has/will cost Billions of pounds of investment to put it right. As an example look at GWR trying to electrify the line from London to Wales. At Bath they have to contend with listed buildings/structures and the Box tunnel is not high enough for overhead wires so they will need to dig down to lower the track. Everyone shouts about shareholder profit but conveniently ignores the amount of investment needed to get things modernised. In this latest instance the rail companies are trying to improve their service and are being held back by the unions "luddite" stance again. If there wasn't any money to make they wouldn't have bought it. Sure it needs investment but the profits will outway any expenditure a hundredfold and then some. I have never understood (and I'm sure there are genuine reasons) why public companies can't be run as private companies with the same people and policies. With the profits going back into improve the service being offered and any remaining going back into the countries well being. IH: "I thought Jonny and Wilf were brilliant but it took a 39 year old master to watch the ball and keep his eye on it to finish it".
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homes

New Eltham 12 Jul 15 10.29am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Jul 2015 9.53am

Quote nickyf at 12 Jul 2015 9.15am

Quote homes at 11 Jul 2015 9.53pm

Quote serial thriller at 10 Jul 2015 11.11am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jul 2015 10.49am

Progress?

Rail Unions objected to ticket staff being replaced by ticket machines, now they want guards to continue to control doors when it can be done automatically or by the passengers themselves. Buffet cars are a luxury and more passengers can be carried without them... they will still be able to employ people to sell stuff from trolleys.

Everyone complains about the cost of rail travel but when measures are implemented to cut costs, the Unions try to block them by causing travel disruption and misery to the passengers who pay their wages.

You know what else is a luxury? Leg room. Actually seats in general are too. Why aren't we just making standing room only, non-air-conditioned carriages where we can fit 300 people in each. That would clearly be the most efficient way of doing things

Why are rail prices going up? Is it because of buffet cars, ticket barriers etc which have been in existence for decades? or maybe it's due to the rail services being privatised, which has lead to £200 million payouts to shareholders, almost exclusively paid for by the £4 billion subsidy the tax payer handed out. So, in layman's terms, our taxes were given to rail companies, and instead of lowering fares or improving services, the shareholders decided to cash in themselves! No wonder the majority of the public want the railways renationalised.

Spot on, completely agree with this. Ridiculous privatising the rail so short sighted

-------------------------------------------------------
two excellent worded post which show the government have divided the public.
privatisation and greed has led to a bad service and instead of improving service and lowering fares,they should be telling the share holders that's your lot they keep the greed going at the cost of staff jobs.

Edited by nickyf (12 Jul 2015 9.17am)

I'm not saying the rail companies cannot do better BUT they took over a crumbling outdated outmoded inefficient BR track signals and rolling stock.

It has/will cost Billions of pounds of investment to put it right.

As an example look at GWR trying to electrify the line from London to Wales. At Bath they have to contend with listed buildings/structures and the Box tunnel is not high enough for overhead wires so they will need to dig down to lower the track.

Everyone shouts about shareholder profit but conveniently ignores the amount of investment needed to get things modernised.

In this latest instance the rail companies are trying to improve their service and are being held back by the unions "luddite" stance again.

If there wasn't any money to make they wouldn't have bought it. Sure it needs investment but the profits will outway any expenditure a hundredfold and then some. I have never understood (and I'm sure there are genuine reasons) why public companies can't be run as private companies with the same people and policies. With the profits going back into improve the service being offered and any remaining going back into the countries well being.

IH: "I thought Jonny and Wilf were brilliant but it took a 39 year old master to watch the ball and keep his eye on it to finish it".

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Dweeb East London 12 Jul 15 11.22am
The cost of the train carriages comes from the Dept for Transports budget and the infrastructure is provided by Network Rail who are shed loads better than the fully private Railtrack. Sadly, it has been Network Rail's lot to carry the blame for deaths and blunders caused by the under investement and penny pinching Railtrack. Taking the bungy jump since 1964. Never to see John Jackson in a shirt again Sorry to see Lee Hills go, did we ever see Alex Marrow? We did January 2013
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Dweeb

East London 12 Jul 15 11.22am

The cost of the train carriages comes from the Dept for Transports budget and the infrastructure is provided by Network Rail who are shed loads better than the fully private Railtrack. Sadly, it has been Network Rail's lot to carry the blame for deaths and blunders caused by the under investement and penny pinching Railtrack.

Taking the bungy jump since 1964. Never to see John Jackson in a shirt again

Sorry to see Lee Hills go, did we ever see Alex Marrow? We did January 2013

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Ray in Houston Houston 12 Jul 15 4.21pm
Quote Dweeb at 10 Jul 2015 12.40pm First Great western have the most appalling record on running the GWR. Passengers have been complaining for years about the late running trains, the way First Group use their franchise to ignore passenegers and take as much money as they can from them. When you take a public service* and subject it to a profit motive, the service element goes out the window. * It's actually a service to the entire economy, because if people can't get around in a reasonable time at a reasonable cost, the cost of doing business goes up. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 12 Jul 15 4.21pm

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Quote Dweeb at 10 Jul 2015 12.40pm

First Great western have the most appalling record on running the GWR. Passengers have been complaining for years about the late running trains, the way First Group use their franchise to ignore passenegers and take as much money as they can from them.

When you take a public service* and subject it to a profit motive, the service element goes out the window.

* It's actually a service to the entire economy, because if people can't get around in a reasonable time at a reasonable cost, the cost of doing business goes up.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 12 Jul 15 4.24pm
Quote twist at 10 Jul 2015 8.16pm I compare that to the airline industry over here, which since 2009 has restructured itself (largely with the help of government money) after the big guys reached the brink of bankruptcy. Layoffs, big changes, new fees, all thought to keep the airlines afloat. Now we have record high fares, and airlines have record profits. Plus, service and any semblance of comfort have gone out the window. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 12 Jul 15 4.24pm

Quote twist at 10 Jul 2015 8.16pm

I compare that to the airline industry over here, which since 2009 has restructured itself (largely with the help of government money) after the big guys reached the brink of bankruptcy.
Layoffs, big changes, new fees, all thought to keep the airlines afloat.
Now we have record high fares, and airlines have record profits.

Plus, service and any semblance of comfort have gone out the window.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Jul 15 9.56am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jul 2015 10.49am Progress? Rail Unions objected to ticket staff being replaced by ticket machines, now they want guards to continue to control doors when it can be done automatically or by the passengers themselves. Buffet cars are a luxury and more passengers can be carried without them... they will still be able to employ people to sell stuff from trolleys. Everyone complains about the cost of rail travel but when measures are implemented to cut costs, the Unions try to block them by causing travel disruption and misery to the passengers who pay their wages. People are generally quite upset about the prospect of being made unemployed, somewhat unsurprisingly. We never seem to want to put a human face on 'cost efficency', which is typically a move to increase profits and share price, rather than lower costs to the consumer. The idea of 'competition' in the rail industry is a joke anyhow. I'm generally impressed when they have a working toilet on the Waterloo to Reading trains on a Saturday night. That's how low the standards have fallen. I used to love travelling around by Train. Things like public transport should remain in state control, and in my opinion, be paid for from state revenue so as to be free at point of service, at least during peak work time, in order to reduce the impact on the roads, and employees personal costs (and recouped in taxation). The idea that travel to work isn't a valid expense to most of the population is absurd. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Jul 15 9.56am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jul 2015 10.49am

Progress?

Rail Unions objected to ticket staff being replaced by ticket machines, now they want guards to continue to control doors when it can be done automatically or by the passengers themselves. Buffet cars are a luxury and more passengers can be carried without them... they will still be able to employ people to sell stuff from trolleys.

People are generally quite upset about the prospect of being made unemployed, somewhat unsurprisingly. We never seem to want to put a human face on 'cost efficency', which is typically a move to increase profits and share price, rather than lower costs to the consumer. The idea of 'competition' in the rail industry is a joke anyhow.

I'm generally impressed when they have a working toilet on the Waterloo to Reading trains on a Saturday night. That's how low the standards have fallen. I used to love travelling around by Train.

Things like public transport should remain in state control, and in my opinion, be paid for from state revenue so as to be free at point of service, at least during peak work time, in order to reduce the impact on the roads, and employees personal costs (and recouped in taxation). The idea that travel to work isn't a valid expense to most of the population is absurd.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hoof Hearted 13 Jul 15 10.25am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Jul 2015 9.56am Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jul 2015 10.49am Progress? Rail Unions objected to ticket staff being replaced by ticket machines, now they want guards to continue to control doors when it can be done automatically or by the passengers themselves. Buffet cars are a luxury and more passengers can be carried without them... they will still be able to employ people to sell stuff from trolleys. Everyone complains about the cost of rail travel but when measures are implemented to cut costs, the Unions try to block them by causing travel disruption and misery to the passengers who pay their wages. People are generally quite upset about the prospect of being made unemployed, somewhat unsurprisingly. We never seem to want to put a human face on 'cost efficency', which is typically a move to increase profits and share price, rather than lower costs to the consumer. The idea of 'competition' in the rail industry is a joke anyhow. I'm generally impressed when they have a working toilet on the Waterloo to Reading trains on a Saturday night. That's how low the standards have fallen. I used to love travelling around by Train. Things like public transport should remain in state control, and in my opinion, be paid for from state revenue so as to be free at point of service, at least during peak work time, in order to reduce the impact on the roads, and employees personal costs (and recouped in taxation). The idea that travel to work isn't a valid expense to most of the population is absurd. Twaddle.......... Let's go back to steam trains then and re-employ the wheel-tappers etc.
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Hoof Hearted 13 Jul 15 10.25am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Jul 2015 9.56am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jul 2015 10.49am

Progress?

Rail Unions objected to ticket staff being replaced by ticket machines, now they want guards to continue to control doors when it can be done automatically or by the passengers themselves. Buffet cars are a luxury and more passengers can be carried without them... they will still be able to employ people to sell stuff from trolleys.

I'm generally impressed when they have a working toilet on the Waterloo to Reading trains on a Saturday night. That's how low the standards have fallen. I used to love travelling around by Train.

Twaddle..........

Let's go back to steam trains then and re-employ the wheel-tappers etc.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 10.44am
Originally posted by homes Quote serial thriller at 10 Jul 2015 11.11am Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jul 2015 10.49am Progress? Rail Unions objected to ticket staff being replaced by ticket machines, now they want guards to continue to control doors when it can be done automatically or by the passengers themselves. Buffet cars are a luxury and more passengers can be carried without them... they will still be able to employ people to sell stuff from trolleys. Everyone complains about the cost of rail travel but when measures are implemented to cut costs, the Unions try to block them by causing travel disruption and misery to the passengers who pay their wages. You know what else is a luxury? Leg room. Actually seats in general are too. Why aren't we just making standing room only, non-air-conditioned carriages where we can fit 300 people in each. That would clearly be the most efficient way of doing things Why are rail prices going up? Is it because of buffet cars, ticket barriers etc which have been in existence for decades? or maybe it's due to the rail services being privatised, which has lead to £200 million payouts to shareholders, almost exclusively paid for by the £4 billion subsidy the tax payer handed out. So, in layman's terms, our taxes were given to rail companies, and instead of lowering fares or improving services, the shareholders decided to cash in themselves! No wonder the majority of the public want the railways renationalised. Spot on, completely agree with this. Ridiculous privatising the rail so short sighted Guess which country out of these has a privatised rail industry? Attachment: 12717185_10153809755601438_6111399602269541167_n.jpg (14.80Kb)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 23 Feb 16 10.44am

Originally posted by homes

Quote serial thriller at 10 Jul 2015 11.11am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jul 2015 10.49am

Progress?

Spot on, completely agree with this. Ridiculous privatising the rail so short sighted

Guess which country out of these has a privatised rail industry?

Attachment: 12717185_10153809755601438_6111399602269541167_n.jpg (14.80Kb)

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Hoof Hearted 23 Feb 16 11.07am
Why not compare ticket prices for football clubs, food prices etc. The cost of living here compared to Poland would always ensure prices for everything was much more expensive here.... being privatised is just one factor. Also I am not sure if those examples are directly comparable - Bristol to London is a commuter route and the price varies wildly depending on the time of day when you want to return if you are a child/student/OAP or are travelling off peak etc. The Polish route means nothing to me and could be from the arse end of Poland to somewhere not important 100 miles away. Showing graphs to prove a point is dangerous if you don't provide the full picture and pertinent information.
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Hoof Hearted 23 Feb 16 11.07am

Why not compare ticket prices for football clubs, food prices etc.

The cost of living here compared to Poland would always ensure prices for everything was much more expensive here.... being privatised is just one factor.

Also I am not sure if those examples are directly comparable - Bristol to London is a commuter route and the price varies wildly depending on the time of day when you want to return if you are a child/student/OAP or are travelling off peak etc.

The Polish route means nothing to me and could be from the arse end of Poland to somewhere not important 100 miles away.

Showing graphs to prove a point is dangerous if you don't provide the full picture and pertinent information.

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DanH SW2 23 Feb 16 11.16am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted Why not compare ticket prices for football clubs, food prices etc. The cost of living here compared to Poland would always ensure prices for everything was much more expensive here.... being privatised is just one factor. Also I am not sure if those examples are directly comparable - Bristol to London is a commuter route and the price varies wildly depending on the time of day when you want to return if you are a child/student/OAP or are travelling off peak etc. The Polish route means nothing to me and could be from the arse end of Poland to somewhere not important 100 miles away. Showing graphs to prove a point is dangerous if you don't provide the full picture and pertinent information. Fully agreed but in the main the price of train travel in the UK is extortionate compared to Europe. Especially the walk up prices.
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DanH

SW2 23 Feb 16 11.16am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Why not compare ticket prices for football clubs, food prices etc.

The cost of living here compared to Poland would always ensure prices for everything was much more expensive here.... being privatised is just one factor.

The Polish route means nothing to me and could be from the arse end of Poland to somewhere not important 100 miles away.

Showing graphs to prove a point is dangerous if you don't provide the full picture and pertinent information.

Fully agreed but in the main the price of train travel in the UK is extortionate compared to Europe. Especially the walk up prices.

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 23 Feb 16 11.18am
Originally posted by DanH Fully agreed but in the main the price of train travel in the UK is extortionate compared to Europe. Especially the walk up prices. Trainspotter. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 23 Feb 16 11.18am

Originally posted by DanH

Fully agreed but in the main the price of train travel in the UK is extortionate compared to Europe. Especially the walk up prices.

Trainspotter.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 23 Feb 16 11.19am
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 First Great Western is one of the most pitifully poor excuses for a rail service I've ever experienced. They should have been renationalized years ago. If they're going to cuts staff, we should stop subsidizing them. They are still trying to design a train that can "swim" when it gets to Dawlish but have not yet succeeded !! Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.
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susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 23 Feb 16 11.19am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

First Great Western is one of the most pitifully poor excuses for a rail service I've ever experienced. They should have been renationalized years ago.

If they're going to cuts staff, we should stop subsidizing them.

They are still trying to design a train that can "swim" when it gets to Dawlish but have not yet succeeded !!

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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Hoof Hearted 23 Feb 16 11.24am
Originally posted by Cucking Funt Trainspotter. Dan could play Mark "Rent Boy" Renton
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Hoof Hearted 23 Feb 16 11.24am

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Trainspotter.

Dan could play Mark "Rent Boy" Renton

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