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nickgusset  Shizzlehurst 16 Feb 15 9.49pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Feb 2015 9.40pm
Quote dougster at 16 Feb 2015 5.44pm
There are so many variables and different studies supporting both ends of the argument, but I believe momentum is building behind legalisation.
I noted a new organisation, describing themselves as a political party, has launched, calling themselves "CISTA", Cannabis Is Safer Than Alcohol. Could that be the start of a movement? I doubt it, but change is coming and would be welcomed by me, despite this report. Instances of psychosis in the population haven't increased significantly, or proportionally to the increased levels of cannabis use in society - Which suggests that whilst a correlational effect is at work, it isn't a strong causal factor - especially given the studies focus on very high quantity abusers (who are drawn from a psychiatric pool). Its also particually note worthy that psychiatry doesn't regard schizophrenia as generally being caused by environmental factors (and certainly not by environmental factors exclusively), often focusing on genetic and biological casual factors. So whilst the studies author is keen to push the idea of a causal relationship, its worth noting that this is generally completely against the trend of psychiatry regarding epidemiological factors. Likely as not, heavy substance abuse, is more consistent with the development of disorders such as schizophrenia, rather than causal. Certainly, you would expect instances of autopsies to show some organic brain tissue damage as a result of cannabis use resulting in schizophrenia. Funnily enough I've just read this article on correlation and causation.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Feb 15 11.00pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 16 Feb 2015 9.49pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Feb 2015 9.40pm
Quote dougster at 16 Feb 2015 5.44pm
There are so many variables and different studies supporting both ends of the argument, but I believe momentum is building behind legalisation.
I noted a new organisation, describing themselves as a political party, has launched, calling themselves "CISTA", Cannabis Is Safer Than Alcohol. Could that be the start of a movement? I doubt it, but change is coming and would be welcomed by me, despite this report. Instances of psychosis in the population haven't increased significantly, or proportionally to the increased levels of cannabis use in society - Which suggests that whilst a correlational effect is at work, it isn't a strong causal factor - especially given the studies focus on very high quantity abusers (who are drawn from a psychiatric pool). Its also particually note worthy that psychiatry doesn't regard schizophrenia as generally being caused by environmental factors (and certainly not by environmental factors exclusively), often focusing on genetic and biological casual factors. So whilst the studies author is keen to push the idea of a causal relationship, its worth noting that this is generally completely against the trend of psychiatry regarding epidemiological factors. Likely as not, heavy substance abuse, is more consistent with the development of disorders such as schizophrenia, rather than causal. Certainly, you would expect instances of autopsies to show some organic brain tissue damage as a result of cannabis use resulting in schizophrenia. Funnily enough I've just read this article on correlation and causation. With a link to the spurious correlations website. Never to be underestimated.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 Seth  On a pale blue dot 17 Feb 15 12.15am |
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For once the US is leading the way in a sensible rethinking and reconfiguration of cannabis laws. For once we're not following the US's example. Typical that on this one important issue, where our laws are so demonstrably counterproductive, hideously expensive and horrendously ill-conceived, we fail to take our lead from what America is doing.
"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" |
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| Stirlingsays 17 Feb 15 12.51am |
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I fall down on the side of keeping it illegal. There are well worn counter arguments to every 'pro' argument. I've had to teach this issue a couple of times when covering for 'ethics'.....There arr plenty of arguments on both sides ....like abortion it tends to divide minds....And people become very certain that their belief on the issue is the right one...It often comes across to me as having more to do with their personal or family culture. I could live with them legalizing all drugs....without really agreeing with it....But as long as the state takes a position. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2015 12.51am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Seth On a pale blue dot 17 Feb 15 1.32am |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 12.51am
I could live with them legalizing all drugs....But as long as the state takes a position.
"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" |
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| matt_himself Matataland 17 Feb 15 5.23am |
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A guide to being a 'stoner': Don't do it kids. Edited by matt_himself (17 Feb 2015 5.25am)
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Feb 15 7.34am |
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Quote Seth at 17 Feb 2015 1.32am
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 12.51am
I could live with them legalizing all drugs....But as long as the state takes a position.
Generally states could do a lot worse than take an evidence based focus on all kinds of policy, rather than whats popular with voters.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stirlingsays 17 Feb 15 1.17pm |
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Quote Seth at 17 Feb 2015 1.32am
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Feb 2015 12.51am
I could live with them legalizing all drugs....But as long as the state takes a position.
'focused on regulation, quality control'......Why do you think that regulating the distribution of drugs means that the black market won't undercut it? What makes you believe that we won't continue to have the same problem? All you are doing is driving down the price.....The racket still continues unless you make it practically free....Just because the official stuff is safer it doesn't mean that a significant number of people will continue to use either cheaper non regulated drugs or something more dangerous because it's new. 'Harm reduction'.....That also depends upon a definition....If you increase the number of users by legalising then you might be increasing the harm overall but just making it safer for those more committed drug takers. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2015 3.27pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 17 Feb 15 1.28pm |
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I think moderation is the key here, sounds a bit obvious and thats maybe because it is, if you drink loads you'll be an tramp fuel drinking alcoholic who dies of liver/kidney failure. If you smoke loads of mental Skunk everyday, you'll end up taking a long walk of a short pier (so to speak). The elephant in the room in this topic is self control or more lack of it. Also the reasons behind alcoholism or drug dependancey are normally to do with the individuals own lot in life.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| Rubin 17 Feb 15 1.45pm |
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Quote TreeJr at 16 Feb 2015 5.39am
"They also concluded the use of hash, a milder form of the drug, was not associated with increased risk of psychosis." I'm not in favour of it, just pointing it out for the sake of argument. And there are a lot of worse things out there which are legal.
Make it available through legal avenues so people have the choice, and stop the (brain) rot. Widening it, those that most often call for heroin decriminalisation are the mother's of dead heroin addicts, as they've ended up dying from an overdose that was either unknowingly not heroin or a lot higher strength than they were normally buying. Edited by Rubin (17 Feb 2015 1.54pm)
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| silvertop Portishead 17 Feb 15 2.13pm |
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Quote We are goin up! at 16 Feb 2015 9.19am
Should be legal, as should ecstasy. Both are a lot less harmful/addictive than alcohol and smoking, as outlined by the drugs report commissioned by the government, who then sacked the guy who wrote it (forget his name) because it didn't fit in with their policy. Would also be much safer than picking up off a dealer that's mixed it with all sorts, meaning less deaths (that's what we all want right?) and would make the government a sh*t load in cash, as well as reducing street crime. What's not to like?
And it is not just the elderly who are misinformed. I asked quite a senior policeman once why it would not be better to sell cannabis in Oxo cube size packages at your local tobacconist. Quality can be assured; the treasury's coffers can be enriched; as can many of the 3rd world countries where cannabis grows naturally. His answer was [and I kid you not] if people smoke cannabis, they are likely to progress to harder drugs. Huh? Most do not progress; those who do are likely to because their dealer also has a supply of more dangerous substances. If you are getting your gear from Mr Shah's corner shop, the only other substance he can line you up with is baked beans and out of date Satsuma's!
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 17 Feb 15 2.19pm |
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Quote silvertop at 17 Feb 2015 2.13pm
Quote We are goin up! at 16 Feb 2015 9.19am
Should be legal, as should ecstasy. Both are a lot less harmful/addictive than alcohol and smoking, as outlined by the drugs report commissioned by the government, who then sacked the guy who wrote it (forget his name) because it didn't fit in with their policy. Would also be much safer than picking up off a dealer that's mixed it with all sorts, meaning less deaths (that's what we all want right?) and would make the government a sh*t load in cash, as well as reducing street crime. What's not to like?
And it is not just the elderly who are misinformed. I asked quite a senior policeman once why it would not be better to sell cannabis in Oxo cube size packages at your local tobacconist. Quality can be assured; the treasury's coffers can be enriched; as can many of the 3rd world countries where cannabis grows naturally. His answer was [and I kid you not] if people smoke cannabis, they are likely to progress to harder drugs. Huh? Most do not progress; those who do are likely to because their dealer also has a supply of more dangerous substances. If you are getting your gear from Mr Shah's corner shop, the only other substance he can line you up with is baked beans and out of date Satsuma's!
Should be outlawed.
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