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Protests in London following Conservative victory

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derben Flag 16 May 15 12.38pm

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2015 12.33pm

Quote kennybrowns leftfoot at 16 May 2015 12.29pm

Quote nickgusset at 14 May 2015 8.32pm

Quote Stuk at 14 May 2015 7.15pm

Quote nickgusset at 14 May 2015 6.24pm

Quote Stuk at 14 May 2015 5.34pm

Quote nickgusset at 14 May 2015 5.21pm

Quote Stuk at 14 May 2015 5.11pm

Quote nickgusset at 14 May 2015 5.05pm


So is the right to protest. A shame that some people (who are not protesting) are planted to start trouble.


Of course they are. Would this be by the tories, the police or someone else?

The right to protest is a "human right", it's not democracy.


It's a democratic right.


Which is different to democracy.

Answer the question please though.


The cunds want to tear up the human rights act...


Apparently the protest on Saturday was peaceful until police stormed in and pulled a woman out of the crowd and manhandled her.
I've seen a few videos of police punching protesters in the face too.


What's that got to do with your accusation that people are planted to start trouble? They planted the woman so they could go in and manhandle her, is that what you're saying?


[Link]
Tis a bit old granted.

I've also seen reports (on facebook- I've been looking, but buggered if i can find it!)from recent protests that 'protesters' have been in the crowd, thrown bottles then gone to the police line, shown id and been let through cordons.


Back to Saturday, here's a video - with admittedly a somewhat biased commentary - showing police storming in. I can't think why i wasn't shown on the tellybox.

[Link]

I'd imagine police are pretty worried about what the new Government are going to do to them, so it must be strange for those on the force who agree with the premise of any protests.


I thought at the time Nick that we probably had more reason to be unhappy with this government than probably 95% of those protesters their!

I don't think I've ever known a time in the Police where a government was more hated than this one. As for Theresa May I think she would probably get lynched if she attended any Police Station in England. Not even allowed to say her name in the police station.. she's referred to as a certain other name which I won't repeat on here.


Used to be a time when most police were Tory

There used to be a time when the Conservative Party was Tory.

 

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kennybrowns leftfoot Flag Reigate 16 May 15 12.46pm Send a Private Message to kennybrowns leftfoot Add kennybrowns leftfoot as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 16 May 2015 12.33pm

Quote kennybrowns leftfoot at 16 May 2015 12.29pm

Quote nickgusset at 14 May 2015 8.32pm

Quote Stuk at 14 May 2015 7.15pm

Quote nickgusset at 14 May 2015 6.24pm

Quote Stuk at 14 May 2015 5.34pm

Quote nickgusset at 14 May 2015 5.21pm

Quote Stuk at 14 May 2015 5.11pm

Quote nickgusset at 14 May 2015 5.05pm


So is the right to protest. A shame that some people (who are not protesting) are planted to start trouble.


Of course they are. Would this be by the tories, the police or someone else?

The right to protest is a "human right", it's not democracy.


It's a democratic right.


Which is different to democracy.

Answer the question please though.


The cunds want to tear up the human rights act...


Apparently the protest on Saturday was peaceful until police stormed in and pulled a woman out of the crowd and manhandled her.
I've seen a few videos of police punching protesters in the face too.


What's that got to do with your accusation that people are planted to start trouble? They planted the woman so they could go in and manhandle her, is that what you're saying?


[Link]
Tis a bit old granted.

I've also seen reports (on facebook- I've been looking, but buggered if i can find it!)from recent protests that 'protesters' have been in the crowd, thrown bottles then gone to the police line, shown id and been let through cordons.


Back to Saturday, here's a video - with admittedly a somewhat biased commentary - showing police storming in. I can't think why i wasn't shown on the tellybox.

[Link]

I'd imagine police are pretty worried about what the new Government are going to do to them, so it must be strange for those on the force who agree with the premise of any protests.


I thought at the time Nick that we probably had more reason to be unhappy with this government than probably 95% of those protesters their!

I don't think I've ever known a time in the Police where a government was more hated than this one. As for Theresa May I think she would probably get lynched if she attended any Police Station in England. Not even allowed to say her name in the police station.. she's referred to as a certain other name which I won't repeat on here.


Used to be a time when most police were Tory

That's true mate. My old man joined in 1973. HE said that every copper voted Tory when Thatcher came to power as she was a massive supporter of the old Bill. And traditionally the Torys have always looked after the Police.

 


Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

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Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 01 Jun 15 8.26pm Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

Quote silvertop at 12 May 2015 4.29pm

Yes, I suppose the girl who prepares the flat white coffee is providing a public service. The only difference is that she is in the private sector. Too much is made of the difference and everyone has a choice, to a certain degree, as to what career path they take.

However, there remain plenty of those in the public sector who actively chose the public way even though they would have earned far more had they taken the private route [and I include myself in this]. You take the poorer road to support essential front line services knowing you will never live the high life on a public sector salary. However, this used to be recognised by way of an unwritten covenant that you will be taken care of in your advanced years. The longer the public service, the greater the pension benefit. It seems that the British public no longer see the need to meet their side of that covenant and most of those in public service recognise that the public has good reason for this as to maintain pension arrangements in current form is not sustainable. It is a hit we are prepared to take just to remain in a job!

However, if you are talking unsustainable, many things need to be looked at closely for the same reason including far more private sector involvement in health care [aggressive encouragement of health insurance etc.] and means-testing state pensions and associated benefits. Sadly, one will only happen in the most stealth like way [if at all] given the nature of the political sacred cow; and the other will impact those who have a greater propensity to vote and vote blue. So both obvious solutions to improved public finance will not happen. Instead, hits will continue to be made on those less able to resist including the unemployed, the disabled and the beleaguered public sector.

The sword continues to swing over us and gets lower and lower and the thread that bears it thinner and thinner. In that context, your comments about fat cat pensions seems misguided.

Silvertop,

I wanted to follow up on our discussion.

I am reading 'Thatcher and sons' by Simon Jenkins.

I shall quote a bit of it:

"Surveys throughout the 1980s and 1990s showed that civil servants were still primarily motivated not by money but by a sense of public service. [Evidence is provided in the bibliography] They acknowledged an 'ethos' in working for government distinct from that in the private sector."

I won't quote more but the book makes a compelling case that Thatcher revolutionised the civil service (Major, Blair and Brown continued the revolution) and turned it into a transactional, target driven purchase-provider pseudomarket which became less accountable to the public than to lines on a Treasury spreadsheet.

I still think that the actuarial reality means public sector pensions desperately need reform. But I was perhaps too dismissive of the 'covenant' you described.

I also find it interesting that someone born in 1980 (ie, me), who grew up in a world where the civil service had already been revolutionised, takes it for granted that civil servants should conform to the same rules as those in the private sector.

I strongly oppose it when vested interests use state subsidies to cosset themselves from economic reality. But I shall try and be less dismissive of the public sector 'ethos' in future.

 


...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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