This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
Badger11 Beckenham 13 Dec 19 10.26am | |
---|---|
Good morning some random thoughts I'm still tired from watching last night after promising I wouldn't. I won't gloat I don't think that's British my side won in a fair campaign fought by all. I suspect that many Remain voters stayed at home partly because they couldn't vote for Labour's odd Brexit policy which was neither fish nor fowl. The failure of Parliament to deliver on the referendum was a factor. I firmly believe in this country that when all the noisy shouting and marching is done the silent majority thought it unfair to ignore the 2016 result even if they disagreed with it. Corbyn and his policies were a factor on the doorstep although his supporters will deny this because they want a younger version to replace him. Taking each policy individually you can make an argument for each one putting them together and promising to nationalise 10% of the economy in the first 100 days was downright scary. Too much too soon the public aren't stupid they didn't believe only the super rich would be taxed. The Labour party or should we re-brand it the London Party now has a fight for its heart and soul I hope that more moderate voices are heard but who knows. Boris now has his majority so no excuses get Brexit done and start governing for all of the country. The Tories broke the red wall oop north but failed badly in London nothing seems to stop the red wall here. No doubt that idiot Khan will get back in next year. I see all of the defectors were rightly wiped out they either jumped by not standing or got pushed by the electorate. I hope this is a lesson to MPs you defy your voters at your own risk. It was a bad night for the Lib Dems they increased their share of the vote slightly but apart from the odd result failed to even match the number of MPs from 2017. Oh and so much for our Lib Dem Prime Minister, try winning your own seat first darling. Great night for the SNP and it creates a problem for Boris as they will demand an Indyref2. Personally I think they should be allowed one 5 years after we have really left the EU. What happened to the Green Party so much for the environment being a key factor in this election. I expect the great unwashed to go back to gluing themselves to things because they can't get their way at the ballot box. The Brexit part did make an impact in certain areas depriving Labour of key votes. Nigel will not shut up and go away so Boris has to ensure a good Brexit whatever that means. No doubt they'll be calls for PR as it's not fair well one thing that is not fair is voting for a party that then abounds its key principles in a grubby little deal just to get some power. So that's a no for me. Finally for those upset that their side lost take some comfort if your cause is just your party will be back.
One more point |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Mapletree Croydon 13 Dec 19 10.26am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Yes that as well, plus Lib Dem didn’t grow because it could’ve meant a Corbyn as PM, although as has been mentioned before, remove Brexit or Corbyn’s 2nd referendum pledge and might have won. Boris, Cummings, the party leaders and cabinet would’ve discussed all factors, oh and including the Boris factor, and thought they stood a great chance. It was won before it started really. I’m just surprised the Workington Man profile leak worked. Perhaps they just probably agreed on it for one election they needed Brexit started and Corbyn and Islington politics out. Edited by Rudi Hedman (13 Dec 2019 10.14am) I still can't understand why the Labour party allowed itself to be manipulated into agreeing to an election. The die was cast as soon as that happened
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Mapletree Croydon 13 Dec 19 10.28am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Badger11
Good morning some random thoughts I'm still tired from watching last night after promising I wouldn't. I won't gloat I don't think that's British my side won in a fair campaign fought by all. I suspect that many Remain voters stayed at home partly because they couldn't vote for Labour's odd Brexit policy which was neither fish nor fowl. The failure of Parliament to deliver on the referendum was a factor. I firmly believe in this country that when all the noisy shouting and marching is done the silent majority thought it unfair to ignore the 2016 result even if they disagreed with it. Corbyn and his policies were a factor on the doorstep although his supporters will deny this because they want a younger version to replace him. Taking each policy individually you can make an argument for each one putting them together and promising to nationalise 10% of the economy in the first 100 days was downright scary. Too much too soon the public aren't stupid they didn't believe only the super rich would be taxed. The Labour party or should we re-brand it the London Party now has a fight for its heart and soul I hope that more moderate voices are heard but who knows. Boris now has his majority so no excuses get Brexit done and start governing for all of the country. The Tories broke the red wall oop north but failed badly in London nothing seems to stop the red wall here. No doubt that idiot Khan will get back in next year. I see all of the defectors were rightly wiped out they either jumped by not standing or got pushed by the electorate. I hope this is a lesson to MPs you defy your voters at your own risk. It was a bad night for the Lib Dems they increased their share of the vote slightly but apart from the odd result failed to even match the number of MPs from 2017. Oh and so much for our Lib Dem Prime Minister, try winning your own seat first darling. Great night for the SNP and it creates a problem for Boris as they will demand an Indyref2. Personally I think they should be allowed one 5 years after we have really left the EU. What happened to the Green Party so much for the environment being a key factor in this election. I expect the great unwashed to go back to gluing themselves to things because they can't get their way at the ballot box. The Brexit part did make an impact in certain areas depriving Labour of key votes. Nigel will not shut up and go away so Boris has to ensure a good Brexit whatever that means. No doubt they'll be calls for PR as it's not fair well one thing that is not fair is voting for a party that then abounds its key principles in a grubby little deal just to get some power. So that's a no for me. Finally for those upset that their side lost take some comfort if your cause is just your party will be back. Why will Farage have any power at all? Surely Boris can do what the hell he feels like in terms of the nature of the Brexit deal.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Matov 13 Dec 19 10.30am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Mapletree
Maybe if Labour had emasculated the Lib Dems by being a clearly Remain party it would have fared better. I suspect though the balance continues to be slightly in favour of Brexit across the country as a whole. It would have got spanked even worse. The constituency breakdown of both the referendum and the Euro elections made the result more akin to 65-35 rather than 52-48. That was always why I struggle to understand why anybody thought a policy of pushing a second referendum made any sense. Lunacy. Labour should have sort to impose its own version of Leave onto May when her own party turned on her. Broke the Conservatives for a generation and then strolled the next election. But no, the smart arse R2's knew better. LOL.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Slimey Toad Karsiyaka, North Cyprus 13 Dec 19 10.32am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by buzby1
As a lifelong Labour supporter I'm very happy with this election result. Labour needed to be crushed. Corbyn and his Momentum chums have been shown to be unelectable, irresponsible and racist. The sooner the lot of them stop whinging, stop making ridiculous excuses for their defeat and disappear the better. Labour needs to completely rebuild as a creditable party without Corbyn and the rest of the Crazy Gang. Loved Alan Johnson laying into that fraud John Landsman last night on ITV. I was hoping he was going to punch him. Am I alone in wanting to slap Sturgeon after those fist clenches?
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Rudi Hedman Caterham 13 Dec 19 10.35am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Bexley Eagle
As a side note I would just like to add that Nicola Sturgeon is an odious human being. Her ‘’Fan-dabby-dozey’’ impression of Jimmy Krankie when she saw no no Jo Swinson lose her seat to the snp was pretty good.
COYP |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Badger11 Beckenham 13 Dec 19 10.36am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Mapletree
Why will Farage have any power at all? Surely Boris can do what the hell he feels like in terms of the nature of the Brexit deal. I didn't say he would have power but that he will not go away. If Boris delivers a reasonable deal then it's curtains for Farage that will take at least 1 year if not longer. I think Farage realises he will not get the Brexit deal he wants and that it is over which is why he wants to re-brand as the reform Party but I doubt he will get much traction with that.
One more point |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Matov 13 Dec 19 10.36am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Mapletree
I still can't understand why the Labour party allowed itself to be manipulated into agreeing to an election. The die was cast as soon as that happened Because it was the official opposition? Because it was supposedly the Government-in-waiting? Hence you have a shadow cabinet and receive official recognition along with tax-payers money. The opposition is a recognised part of our system of Governance. The only thing to ponder on is why Labour declined an election for the time it did. There is no manipulation involved. They were meant to want a chance to replace the Tories. Not keep them in power like they did.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Mapletree Croydon 13 Dec 19 10.40am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Matov
Because it was the official opposition? Because it was supposedly the Government-in-waiting? Hence you have a shadow cabinet and receive official recognition along with tax-payers money. The opposition is a recognised part of our system of Governance. The only thing to ponder on is why Labour declined an election for the time it did. There is no manipulation involved. They were meant to want a chance to replace the Tories. Not keep them in power like they did.
Nope As Blair said at the time, there was no requirement to agree. There was a reason the law was changed so that there had to be a majority in favour of snap elections. It was absolutely clear at the time that the best thing to do for the Labour Party was to sit on their hands
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Badger11 Beckenham 13 Dec 19 10.47am | |
---|---|
I forgot to add another comment about Labour and Brexit. It took the Tories 3 years but eventually Boris united his party around a Brexit position by kicking out the pro EU lot. The Tory party is now in broadly line with its voters. Over the last couple of years I kept saying Labour has the same problem but unlike the Tories that battle is still ahead. Corbyn's position like Mrs May was an attempt to appease both wings of the party. The new leader will have to resolve this split and will be partly helped in that Brexit will be a reality. Last night one of the Labour bigwigs made a rather interesting comment. He claimed that Labour voters stayed away in droves not because of Corbyn's policies (I disagree) but the tone of the Remain wing in debating Brexit. Simply put he said we have spent the last few years vilifying our core supporters and telling them they are stupid leavers but now we want them to vote for us. I don't think he meant Labour MPs but Labour activists who on social media have behaved very badly. I think this is a fair point my own reaction would have been so I'm a stupid leaver well then I might as well vote Tory after all what do I know? As for the abuse I know it was on both sides but the point was that Labour needed the very people it was abusing. Edited by Badger11 (13 Dec 2019 10.49am)
One more point |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
chris123 hove actually 13 Dec 19 10.48am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Mapletree
Nope As Blair said at the time, there was no requirement to agree. There was a reason the law was changed so that there had to be a majority in favour of snap elections. It was absolutely clear at the time that the best thing to do for the Labour Party was to sit on their hands Even Sedgefield!
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Rudi Hedman Caterham 13 Dec 19 10.50am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Badger11
No doubt they'll be calls for PR as it's not fair well one thing that is not fair is voting for a party that then abounds its key principles in a grubby little deal just to get some power. So that's a no for me. Finally for those upset that their side lost take some comfort if your cause is just your party will be back. Lib Dem’s in 2010? I’ll be honest and say I was for PR but looking at the rapid change in demographics in the U.K. I’m not now. Edited by Rudi Hedman (13 Dec 2019 11.06am)
COYP |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Registration is now on our new message board
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.