You are here: Home > Message Board > Football Talk > Ched Evans saga part ???
November 23 2024 3.35pm

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Ched Evans saga part ???

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 18 of 32 < 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 >

  

jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 09 Oct 15 1.25pm

The one innocent, one guilty is entirely explained by the law on consent. It was reasonable, for McDonald, on the evidence, to believe that he had consent because the woman when 'back to his' and they were both intoxicated.

However, Evans wasn't there, he arrived much later, on discovery that McDonald was with the woman, in the hotel room. By his actions, its unreasonable for him to consider her consent (provided she can be show to be intoxicated), because her actions give him no reasonable basis to believe he had consent.

This is the key of the case. Evans, to get it overturned either needs prove that it was reasonable for him to believe he had consent, either by the actions of his accuser, or by her not being intoxicated, and that sex occurred (or the tried and test classic of showing the accuser to have lied about events).

Remember the prosecution doesn't have to prove that she was paralytic falling down black out drunk, only that she was intoxicated to a degree sufficient to be unable to give 'informed consent', and that Evans took advantage of that situation sexually.

Its generally considered 'not reasonable to assume consent' if turn up at your friends hotel room, which you booked, to have sex with a woman, you've never met, and then leave.

If Evans can demonstrate his innocence, then good for him, he is legally entitled to appeal the verdict, but I'm happy to accept that until that time the decision of the jury and judge are fair.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (09 Oct 2015 1.34pm)

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
topcat Flag Holmesdale / Surbiton 09 Oct 15 3.06pm Send a Private Message to topcat Add topcat as a friend

Quote dannyh at 09 Oct 2015 12.20pm

Quote topcat at 09 Oct 2015 10.24am

Quote dannyh at 09 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote topcat at 08 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Oct 2015 9.57am

I hadn't heard about Facebook but there were lots of rumours (whether true or not) about how she behaved pre and post incident.


Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Spunk Sponge who had an eye for a pay day.

That's an awful thing to say about a victim of rape.

What sort of pay day does a victim of rape get?

Edited by topcat (08 Oct 2015 10.13am)

It would be if I believed she was a "victim", But I don’t. Based on the reports available including elements of the court case, I believe her to be nothing more than a cheap hoe bag, who was in it from the beginning to get some cash.

She even went on facebook and admitted as much. Don't get me wrong Ched Evans, like most modern young footballers is a reprehensible pr1ck, however he is IMO guilty of nothing more than having a pissed shag (havn't we all ?) and fell foul of a legal system that allows for this sort of buffoonery.

I come across this a lot in my particular job role, A lot of Army bases are in rural area’s and those who serve normally have a bit more cash on the hip than those local lads who do not. With all the perks a young soldier is a meal ticket for a lot of young women, and we have to verbalise to young guys to box clever. It’s a sad state of affairs when I have to brief young lads on the dangers of copping off with the local girls in case they a) get accused of rape, as has happened recently where the case was thrown out as the women was lying her arse off. Or b) they say they are on contraception but aren’t and then hit the guys for CSA.

Of course what this actually does, is make it even harder for real victims of rape to prove their case, but equally this mentality were all women are innocent victims is I’m afraid to say, utter bollicks.

Whilst I can't comment on the middle part of your post, I still can't see how you can have more knowledge of the case than the jury that found him guilty of rape and her therefore a victim of rape, a crime that is notoriously difficult to get a conviction for.

There is a lot of apparent evidence out there on the internet but as you know you can find evidence of anything on the internet if you look hard enough but it doesn't make it true.

Have a munch on this.


When the trial started in Caernarfon, the main thrust of the Prosecution’s case was that the complainant was so intoxicated that she would have been unable to consent and that spotting her vulnerability the two accused targeted her in a predatory fashion.

When interviewed by the Police following his arrest, Ched had stated that, as a well known footballer, if he wanted to have sex with a girl, there were plenty of opportunities for him to do so. This comment was not a boastful claim but merely an observation on the society we live in.


Of course, the Police knew exactly how these comments made under the extreme pressure of questioning at a Police station will play out in Court many months later in front of a Jury. Composed from a society that is constantly bombarded with anti-footballer media articles relating to the perceived arrogance and bad behaviour of some – they were not disappointed – the prosecution skilfully presented Ched’s words to the Jury in such a way as to make him look arrogant and conceited. And to complete the circle, the media reported Ched’s perceived arrogance to the society from which further Juries will be drawn.

The Prosecution produced CCTV of the complainant walking to and from the kebab shop. She was certainly swaying and unsteady on her feet. Further CCTV of the complainant turning her ankle and stumbling over in the kebab shop was put before the Jury. Finally, CCTV footage of the complainant entering the foyer of the Premier Inn and walking across the reception area was produced.

To counter this argument the Defence pointed out that within the CCTV footage there were numerous incidents that indicated that the complainant was capable of rational thought and decision making. Bearing in mind that the complainant’s intoxication was diminishing as time passed, it is notable that in the hour leading up to the incident in the hotel room, the CCTV footage showed the complainant was capable of:

Squatting down and rummaging through her handbag and getting back up in high heels;
Walking unaided;
Holding a conversation with other people;
Spurning the advances of another male;
Helping herself to food from other people in the kebab shop;
Ordering food;
Paying with the correct coinage;
Squatting in a doorway to urinate;
Reacting to a car flashing its lights; and
Remembering that she had left a pizza outside the Premier Inn and going back to retrieve it.

Further evidence showed that she was capable of:

Composing a coherent text message, correctly spelt and capitalized. (text sent to her friend at 02:54)
Responding to requests – she was asked by the taxi driver to get out of the back seat and get in the front because she was eating a pizza.
Requesting Clayton not to leave her – “you are not going to leave me are you”.

The agreed toxicology report evidenced the following:
blood alcohol levels of approximately 203mg of alcohol/100ml of blood or approximately 2.5 times the drink drive limit;
traces of cocaine;
traces of cannabis; and
no evidence of the complainant having been spiked.

Under cross examination the complainant claimed she was not a regular user of drugs and had taken the cocaine found in her system more than 1 week before the incident but could not remember exactly when, where or how she had procurred it. She was adamant that she did not and would not have taken cocaine in the night club on the night in question.

Expert evidence proved that the complainant was lying on oath on the stand about her cocaine consumption. The expert evidence suggested that either she was a very heavy user of cocaine or that she had taken the cocaine only 3-5 days before the incident. Either way, what she said on the stand did not correspond with the expert analysis.

Exactly why she lied about her cocaine use is not clear but the important point to note here is that there was no evidence to suggest that her intoxication levels were increased either through drugs or alcohol on the night in question.

Notwithstanding the above, in his summing up to the Jury the Judge introduced the theory that the complainant’s level of intoxication could have been increased by the consumption of more alcohol and/or drugs into her system after she had lost her memory. There was absolutely no evidence to support this theory.

At Caernarvon Crown Court the evidence was presented to the Jury over 8 days. The sitting Jury had been on Jury duty for 3 weeks. On Friday 20th April the Jury members left the Court to deliberate. After 4 hours, the Jury sent a message to the Judge saying that they could not come to a unanimous decision on both counts. The Judge chose not to exercise his discretion to give the Jury the option to return a majority verdict and sent them back out to further deliberate the case. It was clear that should the Jury not reach a unanimous decision by the end of that Friday session they would have to come back to the Court the following Monday and start what was for some a fourth week of service.

Approximately 50 minutes later the Jury returned two unanimous decisions - finding Clayton McDonald innocent and Ched Evans guilty. Clayton McDonald was acquitted. Ched Evans was sentenced to 5 years imprisonment.
After the jury reached its verdict, the Judge immediately went on to sentence Ched Evans. During the course of his sentencing comments, it was apparent that he had not accounted for the eventual verdicts being one of guilty and one of not guilty.

One could conclude that if the jury found that the complainant had consensual sex with Clayton McDonald then the sex that occurred with Ched would be consensual as well as the issue was over her ability to consent and she of course could remember no sexual activity at all.

After Ched was sentenced, Philpott the prosecuting barrister went over to Ched's parents and said 'I am so sorry'.

Most of, if not all of, this is from the Ched Evans website. Obviously it puts a positive spin on the trial however the jury still found him guilty.

 


It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
kent675 Flag Bromley, Kent 09 Oct 15 3.19pm Send a Private Message to kent675 Add kent675 as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Oct 2015 1.25pm

The one innocent, one guilty is entirely explained by the law on consent. It was reasonable, for McDonald, on the evidence, to believe that he had consent because the woman when 'back to his' and they were both intoxicated.

However, Evans wasn't there, he arrived much later, on discovery that McDonald was with the woman, in the hotel room. By his actions, its unreasonable for him to consider her consent (provided she can be show to be intoxicated), because her actions give him no reasonable basis to believe he had consent.

This is the key of the case. Evans, to get it overturned either needs prove that it was reasonable for him to believe he had consent, either by the actions of his accuser, or by her not being intoxicated, and that sex occurred (or the tried and test classic of showing the accuser to have lied about events).

Remember the prosecution doesn't have to prove that she was paralytic falling down black out drunk, only that she was intoxicated to a degree sufficient to be unable to give 'informed consent', and that Evans took advantage of that situation sexually.

Its generally considered 'not reasonable to assume consent' if turn up at your friends hotel room, which you booked, to have sex with a woman, you've never met, and then leave.

If Evans can demonstrate his innocence, then good for him, he is legally entitled to appeal the verdict, but I'm happy to accept that until that time the decision of the jury and judge are fair.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (09 Oct 2015 1.34pm)

Thank you jamiemartin721. I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds your posts in regard to legal issues very clear and understandable (I'm not taking the piss here).

 


Four wheels drives the body - Two wheels drives the soul

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 09 Oct 15 3.29pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote topcat at 09 Oct 2015 3.06pm

Quote dannyh at 09 Oct 2015 12.20pm

Quote topcat at 09 Oct 2015 10.24am

Quote dannyh at 09 Oct 2015 9.11am

Quote topcat at 08 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 07 Oct 2015 9.57am

I hadn't heard about Facebook but there were lots of rumours (whether true or not) about how she behaved pre and post incident.


Quote dannyh at 08 Oct 2015 9.03am

Spunk Sponge who had an eye for a pay day.

That's an awful thing to say about a victim of rape.

What sort of pay day does a victim of rape get?

Edited by topcat (08 Oct 2015 10.13am)

It would be if I believed she was a "victim", But I don’t. Based on the reports available including elements of the court case, I believe her to be nothing more than a cheap hoe bag, who was in it from the beginning to get some cash.

She even went on facebook and admitted as much. Don't get me wrong Ched Evans, like most modern young footballers is a reprehensible pr1ck, however he is IMO guilty of nothing more than having a pissed shag (havn't we all ?) and fell foul of a legal system that allows for this sort of buffoonery.

I come across this a lot in my particular job role, A lot of Army bases are in rural area’s and those who serve normally have a bit more cash on the hip than those local lads who do not. With all the perks a young soldier is a meal ticket for a lot of young women, and we have to verbalise to young guys to box clever. It’s a sad state of affairs when I have to brief young lads on the dangers of copping off with the local girls in case they a) get accused of rape, as has happened recently where the case was thrown out as the women was lying her arse off. Or b) they say they are on contraception but aren’t and then hit the guys for CSA.

Of course what this actually does, is make it even harder for real victims of rape to prove their case, but equally this mentality were all women are innocent victims is I’m afraid to say, utter bollicks.

Whilst I can't comment on the middle part of your post, I still can't see how you can have more knowledge of the case than the jury that found him guilty of rape and her therefore a victim of rape, a crime that is notoriously difficult to get a conviction for.

There is a lot of apparent evidence out there on the internet but as you know you can find evidence of anything on the internet if you look hard enough but it doesn't make it true.

Have a munch on this.


When the trial started in Caernarfon, the main thrust of the Prosecution’s case was that the complainant was so intoxicated that she would have been unable to consent and that spotting her vulnerability the two accused targeted her in a predatory fashion.

When interviewed by the Police following his arrest, Ched had stated that, as a well known footballer, if he wanted to have sex with a girl, there were plenty of opportunities for him to do so. This comment was not a boastful claim but merely an observation on the society we live in.


Of course, the Police knew exactly how these comments made under the extreme pressure of questioning at a Police station will play out in Court many months later in front of a Jury. Composed from a society that is constantly bombarded with anti-footballer media articles relating to the perceived arrogance and bad behaviour of some – they were not disappointed – the prosecution skilfully presented Ched’s words to the Jury in such a way as to make him look arrogant and conceited. And to complete the circle, the media reported Ched’s perceived arrogance to the society from which further Juries will be drawn.

The Prosecution produced CCTV of the complainant walking to and from the kebab shop. She was certainly swaying and unsteady on her feet. Further CCTV of the complainant turning her ankle and stumbling over in the kebab shop was put before the Jury. Finally, CCTV footage of the complainant entering the foyer of the Premier Inn and walking across the reception area was produced.

To counter this argument the Defence pointed out that within the CCTV footage there were numerous incidents that indicated that the complainant was capable of rational thought and decision making. Bearing in mind that the complainant’s intoxication was diminishing as time passed, it is notable that in the hour leading up to the incident in the hotel room, the CCTV footage showed the complainant was capable of:

Squatting down and rummaging through her handbag and getting back up in high heels;
Walking unaided;
Holding a conversation with other people;
Spurning the advances of another male;
Helping herself to food from other people in the kebab shop;
Ordering food;
Paying with the correct coinage;
Squatting in a doorway to urinate;
Reacting to a car flashing its lights; and
Remembering that she had left a pizza outside the Premier Inn and going back to retrieve it.

Further evidence showed that she was capable of:

Composing a coherent text message, correctly spelt and capitalized. (text sent to her friend at 02:54)
Responding to requests – she was asked by the taxi driver to get out of the back seat and get in the front because she was eating a pizza.
Requesting Clayton not to leave her – “you are not going to leave me are you”.

The agreed toxicology report evidenced the following:
blood alcohol levels of approximately 203mg of alcohol/100ml of blood or approximately 2.5 times the drink drive limit;
traces of cocaine;
traces of cannabis; and
no evidence of the complainant having been spiked.

Under cross examination the complainant claimed she was not a regular user of drugs and had taken the cocaine found in her system more than 1 week before the incident but could not remember exactly when, where or how she had procurred it. She was adamant that she did not and would not have taken cocaine in the night club on the night in question.

Expert evidence proved that the complainant was lying on oath on the stand about her cocaine consumption. The expert evidence suggested that either she was a very heavy user of cocaine or that she had taken the cocaine only 3-5 days before the incident. Either way, what she said on the stand did not correspond with the expert analysis.

Exactly why she lied about her cocaine use is not clear but the important point to note here is that there was no evidence to suggest that her intoxication levels were increased either through drugs or alcohol on the night in question.

Notwithstanding the above, in his summing up to the Jury the Judge introduced the theory that the complainant’s level of intoxication could have been increased by the consumption of more alcohol and/or drugs into her system after she had lost her memory. There was absolutely no evidence to support this theory.

At Caernarvon Crown Court the evidence was presented to the Jury over 8 days. The sitting Jury had been on Jury duty for 3 weeks. On Friday 20th April the Jury members left the Court to deliberate. After 4 hours, the Jury sent a message to the Judge saying that they could not come to a unanimous decision on both counts. The Judge chose not to exercise his discretion to give the Jury the option to return a majority verdict and sent them back out to further deliberate the case. It was clear that should the Jury not reach a unanimous decision by the end of that Friday session they would have to come back to the Court the following Monday and start what was for some a fourth week of service.

Approximately 50 minutes later the Jury returned two unanimous decisions - finding Clayton McDonald innocent and Ched Evans guilty. Clayton McDonald was acquitted. Ched Evans was sentenced to 5 years imprisonment.
After the jury reached its verdict, the Judge immediately went on to sentence Ched Evans. During the course of his sentencing comments, it was apparent that he had not accounted for the eventual verdicts being one of guilty and one of not guilty.

One could conclude that if the jury found that the complainant had consensual sex with Clayton McDonald then the sex that occurred with Ched would be consensual as well as the issue was over her ability to consent and she of course could remember no sexual activity at all.

After Ched was sentenced, Philpott the prosecuting barrister went over to Ched's parents and said 'I am so sorry'.

Most of, if not all of, this is from the Ched Evans website. Obviously it puts a positive spin on the trial however the jury still found him guilty.


Genuine question, if the court of appeal overturn his conviction will you consider him innocent or think of him as still being guilty and having got away with it? I am asking as I am not convinced he raped her but if he is found not guilty I wont be convinced he's innocent either.


 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 09 Oct 15 3.53pm

Personally, my opinion, McDonald got away with it on reasonable doubt, and that the two of them more or less planned it, and intended to get away with it by saying 'she consented' (and that maybe they'd done it before).

I think he did what some people might have done (more or less), and those people don't want to think that they're rapists. We've probably all 'taken advatage' at some point, but the key here is that it goes beyond taking advantage of a situation you found yourself in, and into manufacturing of the opportunity.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
topcat Flag Holmesdale / Surbiton 10 Oct 15 12.10pm Send a Private Message to topcat Add topcat as a friend

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 09 Oct 2015 3.29pm

Genuine question, if the court of appeal overturn his conviction will you consider him innocent or think of him as still being guilty and having got away with it? I am asking as I am not convinced he raped her but if he is found not guilty I wont be convinced he's innocent either.

A very good question as I'm not sure of what the answer is. I hope that I'll accept his innocence.

Completely unrelated but I still can't see how Rebekah Brooks is innocent when we was found not guilty.

 


It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 10 Oct 15 7.04pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Oct 2015 3.53pm

Personally, my opinion, McDonald got away with it on reasonable doubt, and that the two of them more or less planned it, and intended to get away with it by saying 'she consented' (and that maybe they'd done it before).

I think he did what some people might have done (more or less), and those people don't want to think that they're rapists. We've probably all 'taken advatage' at some point, but the key here is that it goes beyond taking advantage of a situation you found yourself in, and into manufacturing of the opportunity.

Your opinion and nothing more.

The stuff I posted may be from the Ched evans website, but it is based on facts from the defence case. I also love the fact that all of a sudden Jury's are infalible to suit counter opinion. OJ Simpson anyone ?

He admitted shagging the bint, is that the actions of someone who know sthey f***ed up ? of course it isnt.

This women was a goldidgging coke head who got lucky, I hope the court appeal finds in his favour, and she is brought to justice.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
OldFella Flag London 10 Oct 15 8.47pm Send a Private Message to OldFella Add OldFella as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Oct 2015 1.25pm

The one innocent, one guilty is entirely explained by the law on consent. It was reasonable, for McDonald, on the evidence, to believe that he had consent because the woman when 'back to his' and they were both intoxicated.

However, Evans wasn't there, he arrived much later, on discovery that McDonald was with the woman, in the hotel room. By his actions, its unreasonable for him to consider her consent (provided she can be show to be intoxicated), because her actions give him no reasonable basis to believe he had consent.

This is the key of the case. Evans, to get it overturned either needs prove that it was reasonable for him to believe he had consent, either by the actions of his accuser, or by her not being intoxicated, and that sex occurred (or the tried and test classic of showing the accuser to have lied about events).

Remember the prosecution doesn't have to prove that she was paralytic falling down black out drunk, only that she was intoxicated to a degree sufficient to be unable to give 'informed consent', and that Evans took advantage of that situation sexually.

Its generally considered 'not reasonable to assume consent' if turn up at your friends hotel room, which you booked, to have sex with a woman, you've never met, and then leave.

If Evans can demonstrate his innocence, then good for him, he is legally entitled to appeal the verdict, but I'm happy to accept that until that time the decision of the jury and judge are fair.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (09 Oct 2015 1.34pm)

This is a very clear and well thought out post - thanks for the insight.


 


Jackson.. Wan Bissaka.... Sansom.. Nicholas.. Cannon.. Guehi.... Zaha... Thomas.. Byrne... Holton.. Rogers.. that should do it..

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
lankygit Flag Lincoln 10 Oct 15 9.25pm Send a Private Message to lankygit Add lankygit as a friend

Quote dannyh at 10 Oct 2015 7.04pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Oct 2015 3.53pm

Personally, my opinion, McDonald got away with it on reasonable doubt, and that the two of them more or less planned it, and intended to get away with it by saying 'she consented' (and that maybe they'd done it before).

I think he did what some people might have done (more or less), and those people don't want to think that they're rapists. We've probably all 'taken advatage' at some point, but the key here is that it goes beyond taking advantage of a situation you found yourself in, and into manufacturing of the opportunity.

Your opinion and nothing more.

The stuff I posted may be from the Ched evans website, but it is based on facts from the defence case. I also love the fact that all of a sudden Jury's are infalible to suit counter opinion. OJ Simpson anyone ?

He admitted shagging the bint, is that the actions of someone who know sthey f***ed up ? of course it isnt.

This women was a goldidgging coke head who got lucky, I hope the court appeal finds in his favour, and she is brought to justice.


I just hope that finally, one way or the other, justice is served.

 


Is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour? [Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 10 Oct 15 9.54pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote dannyh at 10 Oct 2015 7.04pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Oct 2015 3.53pm

Personally, my opinion, McDonald got away with it on reasonable doubt, and that the two of them more or less planned it, and intended to get away with it by saying 'she consented' (and that maybe they'd done it before).

I think he did what some people might have done (more or less), and those people don't want to think that they're rapists. We've probably all 'taken advatage' at some point, but the key here is that it goes beyond taking advantage of a situation you found yourself in, and into manufacturing of the opportunity.

Your opinion and nothing more.

The stuff I posted may be from the Ched evans website, but it is based on facts from the defence case. I also love the fact that all of a sudden Jury's are infalible to suit counter opinion. OJ Simpson anyone ?

He admitted shagging the bint, is that the actions of someone who know sthey f***ed up ? of course it isnt.

This women was a goldidgging coke head who got lucky, I hope the court appeal finds in his favour, and she is brought to justice.

It will be interesting to see what the new evidence is. I would imagine it is something substantial

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Stirlingsays Flag 10 Oct 15 11.55pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

I said at the time of the conviction that I felt that the justice system had over extended itself here.

I don't believe you can safety convict someone on the assumptions.....And that's what they are....That the state made.

Jamie thinks the evidence represents a safe conviction.....Not for me.

Having had a six month stint as a bouncer in my early life my opinions and experience upon what happens makes me recoil from such a black and white verdict.

I just don't think this qualifies as beyond reasonable doubt.....There's doubt here because the case is built upon subjectivity over a person's state.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
MochMon Flag Croydon 11 Oct 15 1.09pm Send a Private Message to MochMon Add MochMon as a friend

The mirror reporting in today's paper on what this allegedly new evidence is.
No suprise to me or anyone who has had dealings with North Wales police & there role in this conviction the way they conduct business is abysmal & corrupt to the core.

[Link]

 


Nid oes Bradwr yn y ty hwn

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

  

Page 18 of 32 < 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > Football Talk > Ched Evans saga part ???