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Anti immigration parties on the rise
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 Stirlingsays  03 Sep 15 9.29pm |
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Quote oldcodger at 03 Sep 2015 9.09pm
I'll leave you be anyway, it sounds like I could get carded if you work yourself up too much, which seems to be happening. Have fun.
No difference in worth.....according to you.....between those who die in the mud fighting for a country's future and those who ran away. Hey, I can understand why people don't want to fight.....But no difference? Well, it's a good thing that few people hold your opinion as this country would have lost both world wars. Hell, in fact, lets include everyone that the Axis opposed.......Hey, they all should have run.....Because it's alright....Old Codger here thinks it doesn't matter....He only thinks you should fight if you feel like it. Man, I only weep that...in the past... so many valiant people died fighting so that you could have the luxury of these absurd views. Oh and once again, the card stuff is nonsense......Don't be so gullible that you believe what Tux types. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 9.34pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| oldcodger 03 Sep 15 9.46pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 9.29pm
Quote oldcodger at 03 Sep 2015 9.09pm
I'll leave you be anyway, it sounds like I could get carded if you work yourself up too much, which seems to be happening. Have fun.
No difference in worth.....according to you.....between those who die in the mud fighting for a country's future and those who ran away. Hey, I can understand why people don't want to fight.....But no difference? Well, it's a good thing that few people hold your opinion as this country would have lost both world wars. Hell, in fact, lets include everyone that the Axis opposed.......Hey, they all should have run.....Because it's alright....Old Codger here thinks it doesn't matter....He only thinks you should fight if you feel like it. Man, I only weep that...in the past... so many valiant people died so that you could have the luxury of these absurd views. Oh and once again, the card stuff is nonsense......Don't be so gullible that you believe what Tux types. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 9.32pm) Please don't do what you accuse others of doing. For the record nowhere in the entire thread have I said that there is no difference between someone who fights and someone who doesn't. I suspect you know that, which is likely why you made this statement again and again above for no reason, faux aghast. It obviously depends on the conflict in question. In some scenarios you'd be rather foolish to fight, in others the very opposite. With regard to the Syria situation I just pointed out that there is bravery in both staying, but also in leaving because of the huge risks and responsibility involved in either choice. I'm not saying they are identical in every way. You're the one stating that these people are cowards for leaving and that you doubt their worth. I just disagree with that one dimensional view of them. Edited by oldcodger (03 Sep 2015 10.12pm)
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-TUX-  Alphabettispaghetti 03 Sep 15 9.59pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 8.56pm
Quote -TUX- at 03 Sep 2015 8.42pm
Be aware, 'Stirling' is very quick to get you carded if you don't agree with him/her. Precious springs to mind. Oh dear. I only ever go to mods if someone starts f...ing and swearing at me. You know Tux.....the actual rules. I've never reported anyone over anything else, no matter how different their view is or robust the exchange......And quite frankly you shouldn't be suggesting otherwise without knowing what you are talking about. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 9.02pm)
Time to move forward together. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Sep 15 10.17pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 9.29pm
Quote oldcodger at 03 Sep 2015 9.09pm
I'll leave you be anyway, it sounds like I could get carded if you work yourself up too much, which seems to be happening. Have fun.
No difference in worth.....according to you.....between those who die in the mud fighting for a country's future and those who ran away. Hey, I can understand why people don't want to fight.....But no difference? Well, it's a good thing that few people hold your opinion as this country would have lost both world wars. Hell, in fact, lets include everyone that the Axis opposed.......Hey, they all should have run.....Because it's alright....Old Codger here thinks it doesn't matter....He only thinks you should fight if you feel like it. Man, I only weep that...in the past... so many valiant people died fighting so that you could have the luxury of these absurd views. Oh and once again, the card stuff is nonsense......Don't be so gullible that you believe what Tux types. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 9.34pm) Lets be realistic, the options of fighting are pretty slim for 80% of those people, who are probably about as suited to fighting as me or you, and likely as well equipped. Its like expecting the population of France to have all joined the resistance and over thrown the Vichy Regime. The Free Syrian Army doesn't have the capacity to arm them all, train them all and fight. And that's assuming they managed to join the faction you wanted (if they were fortunate to live in an area where they could join that faction). The other options are Assads regime or IS, which is like a choice of joining either the Nazis or the Italian Fascists.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Sep 15 10.19pm |
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All three of you need to remain civil, that's a warning. Keep to the arguments, and not the individual.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| oldcodger 03 Sep 15 10.26pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 10.19pm
All three of you need to remain civil, that's a warning. Keep to the arguments, and not the individual.
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| ffsalan Croydon 04 Sep 15 1.08am |
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I hope he gets his teeth. Were they worth it? I'll see how the BBC are reporting this in the morning. Sky News have already scrubbed it from their interview footage. I wonder why.
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| Stirlingsays 04 Sep 15 6.09am |
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Quote -TUX- at 03 Sep 2015 9.59pm
Cuts to the chase and breaks the rules.....You originally did it twice but was only carded once. Here you jump into a conversation, still obviously sore and take a smart arse opportunity to swear again.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 04 Sep 15 6.38am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 10.17pm
Lets be realistic, the options of fighting are pretty slim for 80% of those people, who are probably about as suited to fighting as me or you, and likely as well equipped. Its like expecting the population of France to have all joined the resistance and over thrown the Vichy Regime. The Free Syrian Army doesn't have the capacity to arm them all, train them all and fight. And that's assuming they managed to join the faction you wanted (if they were fortunate to live in an area where they could join that faction). The other options are Assads regime or IS, which is like a choice of joining either the Nazis or the Italian Fascists. So those that fight are suited to fighting? Again, it's like saying that they want to fight. It's an excuse in my view for lesser behaviour. Also this figure of eighty percent.....Where did you get that from? As for not being able to move to an area which is fighting against IS. There is the FSA for sure but also the Kurds have units of different types fighting IS. Well, I'd say it's probably more difficult and risky to get to the EU on those boats. However I will concede that, dependent upon where you live your options for not fighting for Assad or IS are restricted. But I don't concede that they are less risky than your options for escaping and coming to the EU. Your point about the German occupation against France is a good one but then again, I don't recall hundreds of thousands of young French males crossing the channel every year. Lets be blunt.....One action has a much bigger pay off than another. My discussion with Codger, was based upon the relevant worth between males that chose to fight and those that flee. He was complaining about my point that those that fight are more worthy of support than those that flee. In my view it's warm worded mush. All these young men demanding asylum.....All risking their money and at one point their lives for maximum advantage for themselves.....Compared to those that fight...Risking all for a common cause. The reality is that there will always be a percentage of people who don't want to fight....It's a choice. I understand what they are doing, but being told that I shouldn't state a negative observation or worth upon young fit males choosing to risk all for a big pay off......Well, I regard that as some in the pro camp trying to control the narrative.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 04 Sep 15 6.57am |
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Quote oldcodger at 03 Sep 2015 9.46pm
It obviously depends on the conflict in question. In some scenarios you'd be rather foolish to fight, in others the very opposite. With regard to the Syria situation I just pointed out that there is bravery in both staying, but also in leaving because of the huge risks and responsibility involved in either choice. I'm not saying they are identical in every way. You're the one stating that these people are cowards for leaving and that you doubt their worth. I just disagree with that one dimensional view of them. Edited by oldcodger (03 Sep 2015 10.12pm)
One is obviously far far braver than another and hence as an option for the common good....But that goes against your position to state that You accused me of arguing against myself in an earlier post and now you are jumping around upon a pin trying not to say the obvious. Foolish to fight? Yeah, all those French and British soldiers who died fighting to slow the German advance while we cleared our troops off the Dunkirk beaches......So were they 'foolish' to fight?.....What nonsense. Churchill choosing to fight the Nazis, when all was against us.....Foolish was it. Maybe foolish to fight for those who have little allegiance to a national cause. To those that look to maximum self interest as the first port of call. But foolish?..As equal in worth to those that don't fight...Na, warm words...No these people are heroes....And they are never...never equal in worth to young fit males who chose to flee. These are people placed into extremely difficult situations.....Jamie made a good point that there are complex situations where fighting would be difficult. This is true, but I can't address every situation but when we are talking over many many thousands of fit young men I think the generalism stands.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 04 Sep 15 7.21am |
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Cameron caves in and agrees to take 25,000 extra Syrian refugees. He's taking them from UN border camps.......He better be careful as too who he's letting in. Typical Cameron.....Makes a decision that still means the left hate him.....Nothing other than an EU agreement would satisfy them......Makes a decision that ensures that most of the right detest him even more. Another twenty five thousand more to house.....Good luck to anyone here trying to get affordable housing. Very few people actually care about you. Many on the left just support actions that make it harder for you. Hundreds of thousands of net immigration into this country is an unsustainable policy.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 04 Sep 15 7.24am |
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Quote -TUX- at 03 Sep 2015 7.35pm
Quote dannyh at 03 Sep 2015 7.04pm
Quote -TUX- at 03 Sep 2015 6.47pm
Quote dannyh at 03 Sep 2015 6.10pm
Quote oldcodger at 03 Sep 2015 6.01pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 5.55pm
Quote oldcodger at 03 Sep 2015 5.45pm
You're the one who says you doubt their worth unless they stay in Syria, not me. You're arguing with yourself you plum. Again, you obviously don't understand an opposition argument. People are 'born' equal in worth.. What people became as adults.....Well.....Are you arguing that someone fighting for IS is equal in worth to an NHS nurse? I think when it comes to plums....You must be supplying a supermarket. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 5.56pm) You're very confused. First you state that those leaving Syria have less worth as people because they didn't stay and defend their country. Then completely unprompted you feel the need to tell me that "you are responsible for your children and not my children." Either you feel responsibility towards those in your country or you don't. With your all over the shop approach I'm not sure why you'd wish to write off others who decide to put their family first and get out of a dangerous situation.
Also your moral compass can have a bearing about how you are perceived as an adult, therefore a religious nutter going about jihadying everyone who crosses his path, is not as "valuable" as a doctor or skilled peaceful worker. Oh dear.
The surroundings they are born into is what differs, silver spoon or dirty rag, the babies or "people" all start life the same, social and economic factors change the balance of course it does. But essentially my point stands. I note you only highlighted that part of my post, I assume you must be a bitter class war fanatic ? Edited by dannyh (03 Sep 2015 7.05pm)
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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