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-TUX- Flag Alphabettispaghetti 11 Nov 15 6.04pm Send a Private Message to -TUX- Add -TUX- as a friend

Quote Superfly at 11 Nov 2015 9.57am

Quote -TUX- at 10 Nov 2015 6.56pm

Quote Superfly at 10 Nov 2015 11.17am

Quote Cucking Funt at 10 Nov 2015 11.07am

Quote Superfly at 10 Nov 2015 11.00am

I can't believe the winging on this site at times. Boo hoo hoo - I got told off for linking being black with being a c*nt! TUX would you have said that out loud if you were standing next to a black bloke?

And Willo. Shut up. If you can't see the difference between naming a dish after the region it originated and linking violent behaviour to skin colour then words fail me.


But if he HAD said it out loud standing next to a black bloke and it provoked the kind of reaction you're implying it would, wouldn't that kind of vindicate his comment? Should opinions be stifled just because someone might react with violence?


That's such an odd thing to say Cucking. I was asking TUX if he would say it, knowing that it would cause offense to him (not what the imaginary blokes reaction would be - which you seem to have assumed would be violent). The imaginary black bloke would react to being offended by an ignorant comment. The same as imaginary blokes of any colour.


1. Why do you presume he'd be offended but not ashamed?2. It was never an ignorant comment, purely an assumption based on probability. Just like my bet on Sunday re Palace v Liverpool. When something happens more often than not then the odds are in your favour are they not?

This has absolutely nothing to do with my stance on any given race, purely the 'odds' based on the facts.
For all the deadheads here, and that includes the mods, the clue was in the very first line of this thread.......Really brave, two of them attacking an 87 year old woman. She probably "dissed" them

Hardly rocket science is it!


Yes, you're right. He should be ashamed.

Of course, that also means that you should be ashamed on behalf of the white race for Harold Shipman and Peter Sutcliffe and the West's and the other predominatly white British serial killers. Must be a race thing eh?
Those Teddy Boys used to love a carve up with a razor blade. Bloody whites eh!

I really can't be bothered with the rest of it.

My main point btw was you bleating about your yellow and all the 'you can't say anything nowadays' brigade that followed. Saying something like 'typical blacks' will almost certainly get you carded.


1. I wonder why?
2. So your ''main point'' was about me making a post about a yellow that i found ridiculous and equally funny?
You make it up as you go along.

You and others chose to misinterpret my original post due to your own sensibilities.
That's hardly my fault.

 

Time to move forward together.
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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 11 Nov 15 6.09pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Nov 2015 5.18pm

Unless they are sociopathic from day one vicious people aren't born brutal. They become warped. How?

Edited by Kermit8 (11 Nov 2015 5.19pm)


Main cause of off the wall kids I've taught seems to be due to witnessing domestic violence at an early age.

 
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kingdowieonthewall Flag Sussex, ex-Cronx. 11 Nov 15 6.11pm Send a Private Message to kingdowieonthewall Add kingdowieonthewall as a friend

Quote pefwin at 11 Nov 2015 6.02pm

Quote kingdowieonthewall at 11 Nov 2015 5.37pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Nov 2015 5.18pm

Unless they are sociopathic from day one vicious people aren't born brutal. They become warped. How?

Edited by Kermit8 (11 Nov 2015 5.19pm)


'they f*** you up, you're mum n dad etc...' Larkin.

several generations of pond scum & it'll get worse.

(before people get aggitated, its across the f***ing board)


Nurture or Nature. Is the correct answer.

both.
we're all not as long out of the tree as we'd like to think we are.

 

Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents?
Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.
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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 11 Nov 15 6.15pm

Quote kingdowieonthewall at 11 Nov 2015 6.11pm

Quote pefwin at 11 Nov 2015 6.02pm

Quote kingdowieonthewall at 11 Nov 2015 5.37pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Nov 2015 5.18pm

Unless they are sociopathic from day one vicious people aren't born brutal. They become warped. How?

Edited by Kermit8 (11 Nov 2015 5.19pm)


'they f*** you up, you're mum n dad etc...' Larkin.

several generations of pond scum & it'll get worse.

(before people get aggitated, its across the f***ing board)


Nurture or Nature. Is the correct answer.

both.
we're all not as long out of the tree as we'd like to think we are.

"They say that every society is only three meals away from revolution. Deprive a culture of food for three meals, and you'll have an anarchy. And it's true, isn't it? You haven't eaten for a couple of days, and you've turned into a barbarian." - Arnold Rimmer


 

"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
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bilbo Flag 11 Nov 15 6.18pm Send a Private Message to bilbo Add bilbo as a friend

Quote 7mins at 11 Nov 2015 12.11pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Nov 2015 11.54am

There are more stabbings in 1milliom populated Glasgow than in 9 million populated London so it must follow that the 'white community' has a problem which it has ignored for far too long and, thus, must be held to be partly responsible.


I thought we were discussing crime stats in London.
If you want to discuss crime stats in Glasgow then feel free to do so....and I would agree if those stats are true, that there is a problem with white people stabbing people.

If you are trying to be clever, I would again argue that I find the "what-about..." argument stupid, flawed and in my mind I would be asking myself questions about your agenda.

The thread was originally about two teenaged black girls. There are many ways that could go. It could've just as easily become a discussion about the behaviour of teenagers or the treatment of elderly in our society. It doesn't have to become a discussion fixated solely on race BUT if it is going to lurch towards race related stab stats and the like there's nothing wrong with looking at parallels elsewhere. It was fine for others to highlight black crime in the US. If we are saying that UK and US black crime is worthy of linking, but it's offensive or irrelevant if London and Glasgow knife crime is linked, we are saying that a person's skin colour, not their life experience is some kind of universal defining factor and that little else matters. I trust we don't want to send out that message.

Glasgow is the most violent area of the UK for ages and no-one seriously talks about race as being an issue at all, possibly because it's pointless in doing so. There are no doubt parallels with poverty and gang culture and the like and it doesn't hurt to explore these things. What we don't need is contributions from people claiming that any factor they don't like the sound of (poverty, alientation) because it doesn't entirely blame black people is entirely 'ridiculous' and repeatedly telling people in communities they've clearly run 100 miles from that they have no right to feel certain ways. People feel how they feel. Just to add, I know you've said none of that by the way. In fact on some of those points you said the opposite.

Like I said before, we're best off getting more victims of crime, or those who left gangs into inner city schools to talk about how it's impacted their lives. That would be a helpful step in ending the cycle of violence and is directed where the most crime happens and from people who are genuinely there to help. I'm sure no sensible person would be against that.

Edited by bilbo (11 Nov 2015 6.41pm)

 
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kingdowieonthewall Flag Sussex, ex-Cronx. 11 Nov 15 6.19pm Send a Private Message to kingdowieonthewall Add kingdowieonthewall as a friend

Quote pefwin at 11 Nov 2015 6.15pm

Quote kingdowieonthewall at 11 Nov 2015 6.11pm

Quote pefwin at 11 Nov 2015 6.02pm

Quote kingdowieonthewall at 11 Nov 2015 5.37pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Nov 2015 5.18pm

Unless they are sociopathic from day one vicious people aren't born brutal. They become warped. How?

Edited by Kermit8 (11 Nov 2015 5.19pm)


'they f*** you up, you're mum n dad etc...' Larkin.

several generations of pond scum & it'll get worse.

(before people get aggitated, its across the f***ing board)


Nurture or Nature. Is the correct answer.

both.
we're all not as long out of the tree as we'd like to think we are.

"They say that every society is only three meals away from revolution. Deprive a culture of food for three meals, and you'll have an anarchy. And it's true, isn't it? You haven't eaten for a couple of days, and you've turned into a barbarian." - Arnold Rimmer



depends wether its fillet steak(almost blue) or greggs

 

Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents?
Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.
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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 11 Nov 15 6.54pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Nov 2015 2.48pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 11 Nov 2015 1.36pm

Quote Superfly at 11 Nov 2015 11.45am

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 11 Nov 2015 11.17am

Quote Superfly at 11 Nov 2015 11.09am

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 11 Nov 2015 10.53am

Quote Superfly at 11 Nov 2015 9.57am

Quote -TUX- at 10 Nov 2015 6.56pm

Quote Superfly at 10 Nov 2015 11.17am

Quote Cucking Funt at 10 Nov 2015 11.07am

Quote Superfly at 10 Nov 2015 11.00am

I can't believe the winging on this site at times. Boo hoo hoo - I got told off for linking being black with being a c*nt! TUX would you have said that out loud if you were standing next to a black bloke?

And Willo. Shut up. If you can't see the difference between naming a dish after the region it originated and linking violent behaviour to skin colour then words fail me.


But if he HAD said it out loud standing next to a black bloke and it provoked the kind of reaction you're implying it would, wouldn't that kind of vindicate his comment? Should opinions be stifled just because someone might react with violence?


That's such an odd thing to say Cucking. I was asking TUX if he would say it, knowing that it would cause offense to him (not what the imaginary blokes reaction would be - which you seem to have assumed would be violent). The imaginary black bloke would react to being offended by an ignorant comment. The same as imaginary blokes of any colour.


1. Why do you presume he'd be offended but not ashamed?2. It was never an ignorant comment, purely an assumption based on probability. Just like my bet on Sunday re Palace v Liverpool. When something happens more often than not then the odds are in your favour are they not?

This has absolutely nothing to do with my stance on any given race, purely the 'odds' based on the facts.
For all the deadheads here, and that includes the mods, the clue was in the very first line of this thread.......Really brave, two of them attacking an 87 year old woman. She probably "dissed" them

Hardly rocket science is it!


Yes, you're right. He should be ashamed.

Of course, that also means that you should be ashamed on behalf of the white race for Harold Shipman and Peter Sutcliffe and the West's and the other predominatly white British serial killers. Must be a race thing eh?
Those Teddy Boys used to love a carve up with a razor blade. Bloody whites eh!

I really can't be bothered with the rest of it.

My main point btw was you bleating about your yellow and all the 'you can't say anything nowadays' brigade that followed. Saying something like 'typical blacks' will almost certainly get you carded.


Yes that would be OK argument if 90% of street crime, which is what we are talking about, was committed by whites in line with their numbers. That is not the case. This is not about blaming all black people or expecting each individual to take responsibility or feel ashamed for someone else's actions. it is about recognising the fact that the black community has a huge problem with it's youth. Knife and drug crime has been a problem within the black community since the 50's, it is nothing new. This stuff effects us all so we are entitled to comment on it. Statistically, someone is twice as likely to be stabbed by a black person that anyone else. Talking about white serial killers in a predominantly white country is not helpful, comparable or relevant. It is just ducking the issue.


This was the issue, with TUX, that I was dealing with. I wasn't ducking any issues - I was talking specifically about the stupid suggestion that an innocent black man should be ashamed on behalf of actions carried out by another member of his race. But cheers for the lecture anyway.

No lecture intended Suoerfly. In fact I agree with what you say. This is a subject that we should all be concerned with but I can't feel guilty because of Hitler or Stalin so I wouldn't expect anyone else to do similar. What I would expect is for parents to act responsibly and mind their kids. Discipline begins at home.


And for the record, I mostly agree with you Hrolf. There is most definitly a crime problem within the black community. Where we differ is - I don't think it's helpful emphasising (or, in the case of this specific thread, even mentioning) race. Crime is caused by circumstance and not by pigmentation. If you do that, it becomes the reason (they did it coz they're black) which then leads to the absurd assumptions that an innocent person should feel a measure of shame for someone elses actions.


What circumstances are these ? I need to understand.

Depends on the crimes, but its important to remember that they're correlation rather than casual factors. Poverty is a strong correlation to criminality, but its not causal. The most common factor in violent crime and behaviour is the experience of accepted violence at the hands of others, or witnessing accepted violence.

Usually in incidents like these, its about people who have adopted the acceptance of violence as a means of resolution of problems, or are trying to impress upon others. Typically its people like this that essentially are shallow, insecure and stupid, and their front and demeanour are typically about 'showing they are not' at every opportunity (especially to peers). Tragic really that people can be so jaded and lack such meaning in the value of their own existence, that they establish their own sense of worth by actions like these.

I missed this good post earlier.

So given what we know about violence being passed on through generations, this suggests that violence has been more prevalent in the Black community. Id this just a question of different cultures having different tolerance to violent actions ? A psychologist is well placed to answer.

 
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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 11 Nov 15 7.02pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Nov 2015 5.18pm

Unless they are sociopathic from day one vicious people aren't born brutal. They become warped. How?

Edited by Kermit8 (11 Nov 2015 5.19pm)

I'm thinking, as Jamie is suggesting,that violent behavior is learned behavior. We can all be violent of course but when one group are far more violent that another then it has to be down to cultural and parental influences. That could be from a lack of father figure or a bad father leading to more influence from gangs full of the same type of messed up people. It's seems to be a generational issue.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (11 Nov 2015 7.03pm)

 
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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 11 Nov 15 7.29pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 11 Nov 2015 7.02pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Nov 2015 5.18pm

Unless they are sociopathic from day one vicious people aren't born brutal. They become warped. How?

Edited by Kermit8 (11 Nov 2015 5.19pm)

I'm thinking, as Jamie is suggesting,that violent behavior is learned behavior. We can all be violent of course but when one group are far more violent that another then it has to be down to cultural and parental influences. That could be from a lack of father figure or a bad father leading to more influence from gangs full of the same type of messed up people. It's seems to be a generational issue.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (11 Nov 2015 7.03pm)


That would seem logical but then again I watched the Windrush documentary. Those invited immigrants in the late forties early fifties were obviously decent non-violent folk who were here to work, serve their mother country and live family lives.

Something went badly wrong from the beginning for them.

 

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]
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bilbo Flag 11 Nov 15 7.38pm Send a Private Message to bilbo Add bilbo as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Nov 2015 7.29pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 11 Nov 2015 7.02pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Nov 2015 5.18pm

Unless they are sociopathic from day one vicious people aren't born brutal. They become warped. How?

Edited by Kermit8 (11 Nov 2015 5.19pm)

I'm thinking, as Jamie is suggesting,that violent behavior is learned behavior. We can all be violent of course but when one group are far more violent that another then it has to be down to cultural and parental influences. That could be from a lack of father figure or a bad father leading to more influence from gangs full of the same type of messed up people. It's seems to be a generational issue.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (11 Nov 2015 7.03pm)


That would seem logical but then again I watched the Windrush documentary. Those invited immigrants in the late forties early fifties were obviously decent non-violent folk who were here to work, serve their mother country and live family lives.

Something went badly wrong from the beginning for them.

Well since any discussion at all on their place in a wider society is deemed as blaming 'evil white men', we instead have to say whatever it is, is entirely their own fault. Case closed then.

Edited by bilbo (11 Nov 2015 7.39pm)

 
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-TUX- Flag Alphabettispaghetti 11 Nov 15 7.43pm Send a Private Message to -TUX- Add -TUX- as a friend

Quote Superfly at 11 Nov 2015 11.09am

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 11 Nov 2015 10.53am

Quote Superfly at 11 Nov 2015 9.57am

Quote -TUX- at 10 Nov 2015 6.56pm

Quote Superfly at 10 Nov 2015 11.17am

Quote Cucking Funt at 10 Nov 2015 11.07am

Quote Superfly at 10 Nov 2015 11.00am

I can't believe the winging on this site at times. Boo hoo hoo - I got told off for linking being black with being a c*nt! TUX would you have said that out loud if you were standing next to a black bloke?

And Willo. Shut up. If you can't see the difference between naming a dish after the region it originated and linking violent behaviour to skin colour then words fail me.


But if he HAD said it out loud standing next to a black bloke and it provoked the kind of reaction you're implying it would, wouldn't that kind of vindicate his comment? Should opinions be stifled just because someone might react with violence?


That's such an odd thing to say Cucking. I was asking TUX if he would say it, knowing that it would cause offense to him (not what the imaginary blokes reaction would be - which you seem to have assumed would be violent). The imaginary black bloke would react to being offended by an ignorant comment. The same as imaginary blokes of any colour.


1. Why do you presume he'd be offended but not ashamed?2. It was never an ignorant comment, purely an assumption based on probability. Just like my bet on Sunday re Palace v Liverpool. When something happens more often than not then the odds are in your favour are they not?

This has absolutely nothing to do with my stance on any given race, purely the 'odds' based on the facts.
For all the deadheads here, and that includes the mods, the clue was in the very first line of this thread.......Really brave, two of them attacking an 87 year old woman. She probably "dissed" them

Hardly rocket science is it!


Yes, you're right. He should be ashamed.

Of course, that also means that you should be ashamed on behalf of the white race for Harold Shipman and Peter Sutcliffe and the West's and the other predominatly white British serial killers. Must be a race thing eh?
Those Teddy Boys used to love a carve up with a razor blade. Bloody whites eh!

I really can't be bothered with the rest of it.

My main point btw was you bleating about your yellow and all the 'you can't say anything nowadays' brigade that followed. Saying something like 'typical blacks' will almost certainly get you carded.


Yes that would be OK argument if 90% of street crime, which is what we are talking about, was committed by whites in line with their numbers. That is not the case. This is not about blaming all black people or expecting each individual to take responsibility or feel ashamed for someone else's actions. it is about recognising the fact that the black community has a huge problem with it's youth. Knife and drug crime has been a problem within the black community since the 50's, it is nothing new. This stuff effects us all so we are entitled to comment on it. Statistically, someone is twice as likely to be stabbed by a black person that anyone else. Talking about white serial killers in a predominantly white country is not helpful, comparable or relevant. It is just ducking the issue.


This was the issue, with TUX, that I was dealing with. I wasn't ducking any issues - I was talking specifically about the stupid suggestion that an innocent black man should be ashamed on behalf of actions carried out by another member of his race. But cheers for the lecture anyway.

1. Yes you were as 'you got bored' and failed to offer a response. Bored or bettered, that's the question?
2. Which was my response to the stupid assumption you made about me in the first place.

Still making it up as you go along. Oh well, each to their own.

 

Time to move forward together.
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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 11 Nov 15 8.50pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Quote bilbo at 11 Nov 2015 7.38pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Nov 2015 7.29pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 11 Nov 2015 7.02pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Nov 2015 5.18pm

Unless they are sociopathic from day one vicious people aren't born brutal. They become warped. How?

Edited by Kermit8 (11 Nov 2015 5.19pm)

I'm thinking, as Jamie is suggesting,that violent behavior is learned behavior. We can all be violent of course but when one group are far more violent that another then it has to be down to cultural and parental influences. That could be from a lack of father figure or a bad father leading to more influence from gangs full of the same type of messed up people. It's seems to be a generational issue.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (11 Nov 2015 7.03pm)


That would seem logical but then again I watched the Windrush documentary. Those invited immigrants in the late forties early fifties were obviously decent non-violent folk who were here to work, serve their mother country and live family lives.

Something went badly wrong from the beginning for them.

Well since any discussion at all on their place in a wider society is deemed as blaming 'evil white men', we instead have to say whatever it is, is entirely their own fault. Case closed then.

Edited by bilbo (11 Nov 2015 7.39pm)

Well you certainly can't always blame everyone else for your behaviour.
We are all products of our life experience but we should try no to be victims of it. If you don't try then you only have yourself to blame.

 
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