Believe me, I have a very high boredom tolerance threshold when it comes to discussions about public sector pensions! But, you’re right, we don’t want to bore everyone else to death.

A few points.

1. “the low income remains a sizeable price to pay for a lifetime of committed public service.”
Ok, but you said it yourself: there are lifestyle advantages. You also said “we have one financial motivation: a really good pension”. Given that a “really good pension” nowadays is worth upwards of a million pounds, let’s not treat it as a trifling fringe benefit, like a carriage clock or something.

I react badly to this “committed public service” argument, where people in the public sector paint themselves with a kind of artificial halo (in German it’s called “Scheinheiligkeit”). As though every last binman and IT contractor on the public payroll is somehow doing it out of the goodness of his heart.

You pays your money, you takes your choices. There are plenty of things I’d rather be doing than my job, which pay much worse, but I do it for the money. Other people make a different choice. If you don’t like the low income, go do something else. But don’t use it as a pretence that you’re some kind of martyr.

2. “Society has deemed that if you spend a life working in the public sector on restricted income then it is only fair that it will look after you in your old age.”
Has it? Even if it has, I’d say society has at least made it contingent on the fact that the rewards are reasonable. “Society” won’t put up with people milking the public purse. And I think it’s a bit much to call it a ‘covenant’. That strikes me as perhaps a myth that public sector workers tell themselves. It's a financial relationship between worker and employer at the end of the day.

3. “I suspect there will be more attacks to come”
I object to the use of the word “attack”. Nobody is out to get you. It’s politics. You have to balance different interest groups. Public sector workers want a financial reward. Fair enough. Taxpayers don't want to be milked for the sake of a privileged caste. Also fair enough.

We used to be able to afford generous pensions because they only got paid out for 8-10 years. Nowadays you’re looking at a 30-year or more liability. See what your reformed pension would cost you on the open market, and then tell me that “attack” is a suitable word to use.

Finally, a quick thank you for bothering to write a reasoned and well-argued post. It’s nice to debate on here without resorting to sniping. I know I get a bit provocative on this subject, but I do it to make a point. I know not all public sector workers are militant Dave Spart types.

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

Are you not trying to have your cake and eat it?

You say, "Too much is made of the difference" [between the public and private sector] yet you bemoan the British Public for not sticking to their part of a bargain, sorry, 'covenant'.

Which is it? Do public servants deserve special treatment or not?

I'm skeptical about so-called covenants. I'm even more skeptical, not to say downright cynical, about people who claim they selflessly sacrifice things (eg, financial income) for the "public good".

Eg, there was a lecturer at my university who claimed he could be a billionaire hedge fund manager, but he loved the "public service" of lecturing. Yeah, right. The relative comfort, low levels of stress, high job security and working in a nice leafy campus full of 20 year old girls wasn't a factor.

Doctors are another example. They claim they are in it for the love of patients, but I've worked with enough of them to know they are seriously into having the esteem and respect the job engenders, not to mention the money. Which is not to say the two things are mutually exclusive. But when a doctor claims all he cares about are his patients but goes on strike for his pension then I think actions speak louder than words.

In short, I think there is a lot of cant and humbug dished out by people who work in 'public service' and the 'not-for-profit' sector. I respect people who work in those areas, but when they start to sneer at the rest of us who take the corporate dollar (which happens to pay their salary) then it gets a bit much. (N.B. I know you are NOT doing this, but I've met plenty of people who do.)

I don't accept that the British Public is reneging on their part of a bargain. I doubt whether such a bargain ever existed. Maybe in some Dixon of Dock Green type world it once did. But not anymore.

I agree with your last couple of paragraphs. Britain needs to decide whether it wants Scandinavian public services or American levels of tax. It can't have both.

But the answer is to make rational and smart policy, not harp on about some mythological "covenant" where selfless public servant Bob Cratchetts martyr themselves only for Scrooge to cruelly take away the only thing they have in the world (which just so happens to be worth several million pounds.)

Edited by Johnny Eagles (12 May 2015 4.55pm)

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

Why can't the money come from elsewhere? Why is it always us plebs that suffer?

Lloyds reported a profit in 2014 before tax of £1,762 million compared to £415 million in 2013...

Edited by legaleagle (12 May 2015 11.52pm)

The left on here are quite intelligent as are the right. The left and right I encounter on social media have the propensity to share completely fictitious articles and graphics. The left at these protests would like to think they've done their reading but reduce their ideas to careless tropes. The right I can only think of participating in this sort of thing in the form of the EDL who clearly haven't done any reading.

Overall as stated by a few here, before it descended to wild stereotypes, the more moderate 'right' don't really have such an outlet. Personally if I ever encountered this sort of thing I would end up swinging off a posh cnut swinging off a war memorial or joining the TSG.

I've heard the tales of the Carnival Against Capitalism's encroachment in to the LIFFE and their bloody encounters with rowdy East-end / Essex boys. Posh kids fighting the working class in the name of erm.. what exactly? I'd say it's even more ironic and ridiculous than Cameron's love of Eton Rifles.

There are obvious examples of uprisings and such but in 21st century England if you're resorting to violence and destruction you've not really thought about what you're doing or what you want (or when you want it) and are likely a bit of a cnut who doesn't really represent any cause. Society is at fault for creating this trust fund guilt though. In the old days you just enjoyed being rich. In turn this just fuels consumerism and means people like myself spend cash they haven't got being flash, hopefully goading poshies into revealing their true colours and thus defeating their own argument.

Edited by johnfirewall (13 May 2015 12.43am)

For me reading all this s*** this is a right crease, matt your one of the biggest trolls out the lot you couldnt make this up

R.I.P staffie