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Ched Evans saga part ???
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 esox lucius  Deal 09 Jan 15 8.13pm |
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What the guy did was terrible, we all know that. I don't think he will ever be able to earn a living from football again playing or otherwise, certainly not in this country. But the campaign against him is nothing more than a witch hunt, at this rate he will never work again in any capacity, even the local supermarket won't touch him for fear of reprisals. Even Marlon King got a 3rd, 4th and 5th chance.
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| eagles2011 09 Jan 15 11.07pm |
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| Mapletree Croydon 09 Jan 15 11.18pm |
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Quote esox lucius at 09 Jan 2015 8.13pm
What the guy did was terrible, we all know that. I don't think he will ever be able to earn a living from football again playing or otherwise, certainly not in this country. But the campaign against him is nothing more than a witch hunt, at this rate he will never work again in any capacity, even the local supermarket won't touch him for fear of reprisals. Even Marlon King got a 3rd, 4th and 5th chance.
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| lancseagle burnley 09 Jan 15 11.37pm |
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Quote eagles2011 at 09 Jan 2015 11.07pm
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| Hoof Hearted 10 Jan 15 11.08am | |
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Quote Ray in Houston at 09 Jan 2015 2.59pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 09 Jan 2015 12.07pm
I would like this judge to have been in charge of my drink drive conviction. At the point I set off in my car p1ssed as a parrot I had no idea if I was doing the right thing and was totally oblivious to the dangers to myself or others because I was so drunk. The magistrate I had quite reasonably and fairly decided to disqualify me from driving and give me a hefty fine.... and a lengthy lecture on my future responsibilities and the absurdity of my actions and the effect it could have on others. I suggest that this girl brought all of this on herself and the fact that she was drunk was no excuse. She cannot remember what she did and it can be argued that she led both men on. Most definitely an unsafe conviction.
In her case, she was deemed to have given consent to have sex with Donaldson by dint of agreeing to go back to his hotel room with him. Evans just showed up and has his way. This clear (and legal) difference between the two has been repeated over and over in this thread, yet plenty of you still don't - or choose not to - understand it.
There is no clear and legal difference. You've just said there is and expect us to swallow it. Unless you can prove that you are a practising Queens Counsel I am minded to ignore your plea (see what I did there?)
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| Hoof Hearted 10 Jan 15 11.23am | |
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Quote Superfly at 09 Jan 2015 1.01pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 09 Jan 2015 12.07pm
I suggest that this girl brought all of this on herself and the fact that she was drunk was no excuse. She cannot remember what she did and it can be argued that she led both men on.
Your brain scares me Hoof
1st paragraph. One of the most loathsome thing I've ever read on HOL. Well done.
If she was so drunk how would she know what she was getting up to? I've seen girls on nights out getting up to stuff they would be ashamed of in the morning, but thought it was hilarious at the time. Ched Evans insists it was consensual and proceeded on that basis. The girl may well have led him on once he appeared in the room which she may have suggested he do earlier in the evening. No one knows for sure what was said or done and all I'm doing is pointing out possible scenarios or explanations. I don't understand why my comments are regarded by you as loathsome........ you seem to float between Mr Jack the lad to Mr Prude/Unreasonable at the flick of a switch these days mate. If she was raped and he did it, she has my sympathy and support, but it seems a bit complex to prove without any lingering doubt.
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| Hoof Hearted 10 Jan 15 11.30am | |
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Quote Ray in Houston at 09 Jan 2015 3.09pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 09 Jan 2015 12.07pm
I suggest that this girl brought all of this on herself and the fact that she was drunk was no excuse.
Your mate's roommate saw that you had 20 quid in your wallet and helps himself to it, leaving you high and dry in the morning. Is he a thief, or is that ok because you'd already given your mate some? Edited by Ray in Houston (09 Jan 2015 5.28pm)
Of course he's a thief in that basic scenario. He might not be though if he also asked me to borrow the £20 and during my drunken stupor I said yes but couldn't remember giving my consent when I woke up.
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| Stirlingsays 10 Jan 15 7.50pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jan 2015 11.23am
Why so touchy? If she was so drunk how would she know what she was getting up to? I've seen girls on nights out getting up to stuff they would be ashamed of in the morning, but thought it was hilarious at the time. Ched Evans insists it was consensual and proceeded on that basis. The girl may well have led him on once he appeared in the room which she may have suggested he do earlier in the evening. No one knows for sure what was said or done and all I'm doing is pointing out possible scenarios or explanations. I don't understand why my comments are regarded by you as loathsome........ you seem to float between Mr Jack the lad to Mr Prude/Unreasonable at the flick of a switch these days mate. If she was raped and he did it, she has my sympathy and support, but it seems a bit complex to prove without any lingering doubt.
There's no smoking gun just speculation and interpretation being present4d as facts that prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Not for me.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Eagle_SA Just outside Cape Town 10 Jan 15 8.20pm |
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It would appear that Bruce knows a thing or two that a court of law didn't. Also, it would seem according to St. Bruce, that contrition and taking responsibility for one's actions are not necessary in this post-modern world.
And I see signs of half remembered days, I hear bells that chime in strange familiar ways |
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| Hoof Hearted 10 Jan 15 8.37pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 10 Jan 2015 7.50pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jan 2015 11.23am
Why so touchy? If she was so drunk how would she know what she was getting up to? I've seen girls on nights out getting up to stuff they would be ashamed of in the morning, but thought it was hilarious at the time. Ched Evans insists it was consensual and proceeded on that basis. The girl may well have led him on once he appeared in the room which she may have suggested he do earlier in the evening. No one knows for sure what was said or done and all I'm doing is pointing out possible scenarios or explanations. I don't understand why my comments are regarded by you as loathsome........ you seem to float between Mr Jack the lad to Mr Prude/Unreasonable at the flick of a switch these days mate. If she was raped and he did it, she has my sympathy and support, but it seems a bit complex to prove without any lingering doubt.
There's no smoking gun just speculation and interpretation being present4d as facts that prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Not for me.
I really don't understand why people get so animated either? I've just played Devil's Advocate by suggesting other viewpoints/opinions..... hardly loathsome? Still... Palace have won and nothing is going to ruin that feelgood factor tonight!
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Jan 15 9.37pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 10 Jan 2015 7.50pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jan 2015 11.23am
Why so touchy? If she was so drunk how would she know what she was getting up to? I've seen girls on nights out getting up to stuff they would be ashamed of in the morning, but thought it was hilarious at the time. Ched Evans insists it was consensual and proceeded on that basis. The girl may well have led him on once he appeared in the room which she may have suggested he do earlier in the evening. No one knows for sure what was said or done and all I'm doing is pointing out possible scenarios or explanations. I don't understand why my comments are regarded by you as loathsome........ you seem to float between Mr Jack the lad to Mr Prude/Unreasonable at the flick of a switch these days mate. If she was raped and he did it, she has my sympathy and support, but it seems a bit complex to prove without any lingering doubt.
There's no smoking gun just speculation and interpretation being present4d as facts that prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Not for me. Other than the conviction beyond reasonable doubt, the evidence is stacked against him, and demonstrates a) he had sex b) she couldn't give consent c) he had no basis on which to credibly claim he could have believed consent was given. That's beyond reasonable doubt, not just in my opinion, but in the consensus of British law. There isn't really a scenario where by he has a defence, unless he can present evidence that is a) new b) disputes those three key factors. What happened in the room is irrelevant, once he admitted to having sex with her. But other than that, yeah. Edited by jamiemartin721 (10 Jan 2015 9.39pm)
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Jan 15 9.41pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Jan 2015 11.30am
Quote Ray in Houston at 09 Jan 2015 3.09pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 09 Jan 2015 12.07pm
I suggest that this girl brought all of this on herself and the fact that she was drunk was no excuse.
Your mate's roommate saw that you had 20 quid in your wallet and helps himself to it, leaving you high and dry in the morning. Is he a thief, or is that ok because you'd already given your mate some? Edited by Ray in Houston (09 Jan 2015 5.28pm)
Of course he's a thief in that basic scenario. He might not be though if he also asked me to borrow the £20 and during my drunken stupor I said yes but couldn't remember giving my consent when I woke up. No, he'd be a thief, unless he could demonstrate that, as consent in all things legal is defined by a necessity of implicit understanding by all parties. He would only be innocent if he could reasonably be said to have believed you capable of making that decision or by way of actions was led to believe your consent to take the money.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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