That is the primary reason 'yes'. The secondary less important one being I truly believe that it (the EC, Common Market and EU) has and will continue in the future to prevent military conflict amongst the stronger western European nations.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

I have genuinely lost count of the amount of UKIP councillors and members suspended or thrown out of the party in the last 18 months.

At this rate they will be just be another grey, anodyne political party before you can say 'ukips yer uncool'

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

The poor man's party funded by a very rich man....

Attachment: image.jpg (54.09Kb)

We will never know for sure - you cant prove a negative like that - but I think it almost certainly has.

It has also allowed us to respond in a much more united way to wars in the region and elsewhere in a way that NATO never could. There is some duplication between NATO and the EU of course, but the overwhelming case is that, in terms of preventing wars between Member States and dealing with regional conflicts, the EU has been a great success.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

Always your prerogative. But I refer you to my signature below.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

Fascist tendencies...
1. They want to revoke human rights legislation.
This means they want to revoke (among other things): Right to a fair trial, freedom of expression, freedom from discrimination, freedom of association, freedom of thought, freedom from torture, right to liberty, protection from retrospective punishment and right to privacy. All of these are contained in the European convention of human rights.

2. Workfare. Or in simple terms, forcing people to work for nothing rather than a decent wage. [Link]

3. When a case against workfare was lost in court, the DWP brought in retrospective legislation to avoid compensating people who were illegally sanctioned for refusing to comply with point 2. This contravenes Article 7 of the European convention on human right (ECHR) [Link]

4. Secret courts. The justice and security bill that was recently pushed through parliament means that there could be trials in which the defendant cannot even enter the courtroom, can't be represented by their own lawyer, neither they nor their lawyer can know crime they have been charged with, nor the evidence against them. Imagine that, you could be tried in court, without being allowed to be there, nor be told what it is that you are charged with. This violates article 5 of the ECHR. [Link]

5. Cuts to legal aid, meaning tens thousands of people are unable to afford to the right to a fair trial. Only this week a case was thrown out of court because the judge realised that the defendants didn't have fair representation. [Link] A violation of article 6 of the ECHR.

6. Theresa May wants to introduce an 'internet snoopers' charter which would allow the government to access emails and internet history- a contravention of the right of privacy-article 8 of the ECHR [Link]

7. Also contravening article 8 is the fact that pupils' confidential information has been put up for sale! [Link] We've all heard about our medical details being up for grabs.

8. Academies and free schools. The government says that schools can become academies after consultation. On many occasions, there has been widespread opposition for all areas against schools being changed but these have been ignored. Hardly democracy! [Link]

I could go on...illegal kettling, media manipulation and censorship (The Snowden affair, lack of opposition to austerity, the fact that you have to dig a bit to find out the sort of information I've included here(which-be honest-the vast majority of people won't do etc ), use of water cannon, backdoor privatisation of public assets.

...shockingly, but unsurprisingly, when talking about a courts rejection of the workfare scheme, Mark Hoban (a tory who regularly removes criticism from his facebook page)clearly believes in the government's right to dictate in a statement in which he said, "The court has backed our right to require people to take part in programmes which will help them get into work"
It seems Hoban sees governance in terms of ministerial rights to dictate. In his view, the ministerial right to dictate clearly supersedes the labour rights of the ordinary person (the right to earn the minimum wage, the right to quit if you are being bullied or exploited, the right to paid holidays and paid sick leave...)It's not beyond the realms of possibility that he isn't the only mp to have this mindset.

It is quite clear from this, that the Tory definition of a "right" is actually something that belongs to the government, not to members of the public. It is the classic Tory principle, "the right to rule".

This lot clearly believe in their own rights, but not the rights of the people they 'govern'. To me this is a stance akin to totalitarianism or fascism, which was my point in my previous post this is linked to.

Now bearing in mind that most would agree with me that UKIP are to the right of the current lot, does it not seem a little dangerous to be voting for them as a form of protest. When protesting one usually veers towards something to the opposite of what is happening, not towards something/someone that would further exacerbate what they are protesting about.

Now I've said that I understand that people are veering towards UKIP because of the immigration issue. Fair enough it's an important and emotive issue that is complex. But UKIP are a party bankrolled by people who think the Tories aren't right wing enough. People who want to take away our rights and liberties even more for their own financial gain. I think the immigration issue is being used by UKIP as a smokescreen because they know it pushes peoples buttons and will help them garner support.

It's a shame it's an issue that cannot be discussed without people of all political views becoming hysterical about it. The fault lies with the current lot in parliament.

Edited by nickgusset (03 May 2014 11.10pm)