Israel / Palestine

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Israel / Palestine

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 24 Nov 12 4.08pm
[Link] a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 24 Nov 12 4.08pm

[Link]

a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read.

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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 24 Nov 12 8.51pm
It's so cyclical it's desperate. However, my instinct is to align myself with the people deriding both sets of leaders for their focus on political aims. Mind you, I take a more cynical view - I think it is to with guns. I think this is why the yanks have an interest. What sells weapons? Conflict, threat and paranoia. So, you are going to do things which exacerbate conflict. This whole region must be a banker. Still, that's far from the only reason. But continually attacking each other is no grounds for success for either side. A one and a two...
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tome

Inner Tantalus Time. 24 Nov 12 8.51pm

It's so cyclical it's desperate.

However, my instinct is to align myself with the people deriding both sets of leaders for their focus on political aims.

Mind you, I take a more cynical view - I think it is to with guns. I think this is why the yanks have an interest. What sells weapons? Conflict, threat and paranoia. So, you are going to do things which exacerbate conflict. This whole region must be a banker.

Still, that's far from the only reason. But continually attacking each other is no grounds for success for either side.

A one and a two...

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Jonny_Johnson Tel Aviv 24 Nov 12 9.34pm
Quote nickgusset at 24 Nov 2012 4.08pm [Link] a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read. [Link] A better piece about the distorted reporting from the British media. A must read! Also an interesting article on Pilfer. [Link]
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Jonny_Johnson

Tel Aviv 24 Nov 12 9.34pm

Quote nickgusset at 24 Nov 2012 4.08pm

[Link]

a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read.

[Link]

A better piece about the distorted reporting from the British media. A must read!

Also an interesting article on Pilfer.

[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 24 Nov 12 10.08pm
Quote Jonny_Johnson at 24 Nov 2012 9.34pm Quote nickgusset at 24 Nov 2012 4.08pm [Link] a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read. [Link] A better piece about the distorted reporting from the British media. A must read! Also an interesting article on Pilfer. [Link] By Melanie Phillips? You must be joking! She is probably the most blinkered columnist in the mainstream media, especially on Israeli issues where her postition is very well-known. Pilger also has his agenda, but at least he enters into intelligent debate. No one takes Phllips seriously. Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)
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SloveniaDave

Tirana, Albania 24 Nov 12 10.08pm

Quote Jonny_Johnson at 24 Nov 2012 9.34pm

Quote nickgusset at 24 Nov 2012 4.08pm

[Link]

a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read.

[Link]

A better piece about the distorted reporting from the British media. A must read!

Also an interesting article on Pilfer.

[Link]

By Melanie Phillips? You must be joking! She is probably the most blinkered columnist in the mainstream media, especially on Israeli issues where her postition is very well-known.

Pilger also has his agenda, but at least he enters into intelligent debate. No one takes Phllips seriously.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 24 Nov 12 10.44pm
Quote SloveniaDave at 24 Nov 2012 10.08pm Quote Jonny_Johnson at 24 Nov 2012 9.34pm Quote nickgusset at 24 Nov 2012 4.08pm [Link] a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read. [Link] A better piece about the distorted reporting from the British media. A must read! Also an interesting article on Pilfer. [Link] By Melanie Phillips? You must be joking! She is probably the most blinkered columnist in the mainstream media, especially on Israeli issues where her postition is very well-known. Pilger also has his agenda, but at least he enters into intelligent debate. No one takes Phllips seriously. Phillips talks in absolutes, like you have here, of course some people take her seriously. She appears on Question time quite often. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 Nov 12 10.44pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 24 Nov 2012 10.08pm

Quote Jonny_Johnson at 24 Nov 2012 9.34pm

Quote nickgusset at 24 Nov 2012 4.08pm

[Link]

a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read.

[Link]

A better piece about the distorted reporting from the British media. A must read!

Also an interesting article on Pilfer.

[Link]

By Melanie Phillips? You must be joking! She is probably the most blinkered columnist in the mainstream media, especially on Israeli issues where her postition is very well-known.

Pilger also has his agenda, but at least he enters into intelligent debate. No one takes Phllips seriously.

Phillips talks in absolutes, like you have here, of course some people take her seriously. She appears on Question time quite often.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 24 Nov 12 11.08pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Nov 2012 10.44pm Quote SloveniaDave at 24 Nov 2012 10.08pm Quote Jonny_Johnson at 24 Nov 2012 9.34pm Quote nickgusset at 24 Nov 2012 4.08pm [Link] a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read. [Link] A better piece about the distorted reporting from the British media. A must read! Also an interesting article on Pilfer. [Link] By Melanie Phillips? You must be joking! She is probably the most blinkered columnist in the mainstream media, especially on Israeli issues where her postition is very well-known. Pilger also has his agenda, but at least he enters into intelligent debate. No one takes Phllips seriously. Phillips talks in absolutes, like you have here, of course some people take her seriously. She appears on Question time quite often. Fair point. Of course some people do take her seriously, but pretty much only those who agree with her anyway. She is a a polemicist but unlike, for example, the HItchens brothers, she does not demonstrate an intellectual ability to defend her positions. As with 80-90% of people who appear on Question Time, you know precisely how she will respond to any question asked and it adds nothing to real debate. Edited by SloveniaDave (24 Nov 2012 11.13pm) Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)
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SloveniaDave

Tirana, Albania 24 Nov 12 11.08pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Nov 2012 10.44pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 24 Nov 2012 10.08pm

Quote Jonny_Johnson at 24 Nov 2012 9.34pm

Quote nickgusset at 24 Nov 2012 4.08pm

[Link]

a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read.

[Link]

A better piece about the distorted reporting from the British media. A must read!

Also an interesting article on Pilfer.

[Link]

By Melanie Phillips? You must be joking! She is probably the most blinkered columnist in the mainstream media, especially on Israeli issues where her postition is very well-known.

Pilger also has his agenda, but at least he enters into intelligent debate. No one takes Phllips seriously.

Phillips talks in absolutes, like you have here, of course some people take her seriously. She appears on Question time quite often.

Fair point. Of course some people do take her seriously, but pretty much only those who agree with her anyway. She is a a polemicist but unlike, for example, the HItchens brothers, she does not demonstrate an intellectual ability to defend her positions.

As with 80-90% of people who appear on Question Time, you know precisely how she will respond to any question asked and it adds nothing to real debate.

Edited by SloveniaDave (24 Nov 2012 11.13pm)

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

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Stirlingsays 24 Nov 12 11.23pm
Quote SloveniaDave at 24 Nov 2012 11.08pm Fair point. Of course some people do take her seriously, but pretty much only those who agree with her anyway. She is a a polemicist but unlike, for example, the HItchens brothers, she does not demonstrate an intellectual ability to defend her positions. As with 80-90% of people who appear on Question Time, you know precisely how she will respond to any question asked and it adds nothing to real debate. Edited by SloveniaDave (24 Nov 2012 11.13pm) A tad harsh perhaps, but I take your points. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 Nov 12 11.23pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 24 Nov 2012 11.08pm

As with 80-90% of people who appear on Question Time, you know precisely how she will respond to any question asked and it adds nothing to real debate.

Edited by SloveniaDave (24 Nov 2012 11.13pm)

A tad harsh perhaps, but I take your points.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Jonny_Johnson Tel Aviv 25 Nov 12 3.00am
Quote SloveniaDave at 24 Nov 2012 11.08pm Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Nov 2012 10.44pm Quote SloveniaDave at 24 Nov 2012 10.08pm Quote Jonny_Johnson at 24 Nov 2012 9.34pm Quote nickgusset at 24 Nov 2012 4.08pm [Link] a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read. [Link] A better piece about the distorted reporting from the British media. A must read! Also an interesting article on Pilfer. [Link] By Melanie Phillips? You must be joking! She is probably the most blinkered columnist in the mainstream media, especially on Israeli issues where her postition is very well-known. Pilger also has his agenda, but at least he enters into intelligent debate. No one takes Phllips seriously. Phillips talks in absolutes, like you have here, of course some people take her seriously. She appears on Question time quite often. Fair point. Of course some people do take her seriously, but pretty much only those who agree with her anyway. She is a a polemicist but unlike, for example, the HItchens brothers, she does not demonstrate an intellectual ability to defend her positions. As with 80-90% of people who appear on Question Time, you know precisely how she will respond to any question asked and it adds nothing to real debate. Edited by SloveniaDave (24 Nov 2012 11.13pm) That's a pretty sweeping statement. I would say that most commentators are polemicists, hence their contention for mass audiences. I am aware that Melanie Phillips is castigated owing to her pro-Israeli stance, but having read most assertions/accusations made by both sides, I find it incredibly hard to disagree with anything that she has written in the above article. I do not hide my standpoint, but I have always believed wholeheartedly that the truth tends to exonerate Israel of a great number of the baseless accusations thrown at her.
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Jonny_Johnson

Tel Aviv 25 Nov 12 3.00am

Quote SloveniaDave at 24 Nov 2012 11.08pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Nov 2012 10.44pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 24 Nov 2012 10.08pm

Quote Jonny_Johnson at 24 Nov 2012 9.34pm

Quote nickgusset at 24 Nov 2012 4.08pm

[Link]

a good piece about the bbc and the distorted reporting Palestine/Israel conflict here. Pilger is always a good read.

[Link]

A better piece about the distorted reporting from the British media. A must read!

Also an interesting article on Pilfer.

[Link]

By Melanie Phillips? You must be joking! She is probably the most blinkered columnist in the mainstream media, especially on Israeli issues where her postition is very well-known.

Pilger also has his agenda, but at least he enters into intelligent debate. No one takes Phllips seriously.

Phillips talks in absolutes, like you have here, of course some people take her seriously. She appears on Question time quite often.

Fair point. Of course some people do take her seriously, but pretty much only those who agree with her anyway. She is a a polemicist but unlike, for example, the HItchens brothers, she does not demonstrate an intellectual ability to defend her positions.

As with 80-90% of people who appear on Question Time, you know precisely how she will respond to any question asked and it adds nothing to real debate.

Edited by SloveniaDave (24 Nov 2012 11.13pm)

That's a pretty sweeping statement. I would say that most commentators are polemicists, hence their contention for mass audiences.

I am aware that Melanie Phillips is castigated owing to her pro-Israeli stance, but having read most assertions/accusations made by both sides, I find it incredibly hard to disagree with anything that she has written in the above article.

I do not hide my standpoint, but I have always believed wholeheartedly that the truth tends to exonerate Israel of a great number of the baseless accusations thrown at her.

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Stirlingsays 25 Nov 12 4.00am
Quote Jonny_Johnson at 25 Nov 2012 3.00am That's a pretty sweeping statement. I would say that most commentators are polemicists, hence their contention for mass audiences. I am aware that Melanie Phillips is castigated owing to her pro-Israeli stance, but having read most assertions/accusations made by both sides, I find it incredibly hard to disagree with anything that she has written in the above article. I do not hide my standpoint, but I have always believed wholeheartedly that the truth tends to exonerate Israel of a great number of the baseless accusations thrown at her. Phillips is castigated by the left, as is Hitchens. Personally while they both have a boorish quality they also share a rare articulance. An articulation which is often in excess of their detractors. They also both in my opinion have very sharp minds. Because they are so heavily criticised...Some of it is bordering on ridiculous hatred. I think they also share a kind of paranoids born of this ever ending war with the liberal left, their nemesisic enemy. Considering that Phillips was once a left wing columnist on the Guardian and Hitchens a communist there's rather a bittersweet comic twist to that. Now, for myself I've always been rather neo con but I can't say that I'm as far too the right on foreign policy as they are. Still, I enjoy reading their musings, I can recommend reading Phillips's blog....She certainly puts the work in. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

25 Nov 12 4.00am

Quote Jonny_Johnson at 25 Nov 2012 3.00am

That's a pretty sweeping statement. I would say that most commentators are polemicists, hence their contention for mass audiences.

I do not hide my standpoint, but I have always believed wholeheartedly that the truth tends to exonerate Israel of a great number of the baseless accusations thrown at her.

Phillips is castigated by the left, as is Hitchens. Personally while they both have a boorish quality they also share a rare articulance. An articulation which is often in excess of their detractors. They also both in my opinion have very sharp minds.

Because they are so heavily criticised...Some of it is bordering on ridiculous hatred. I think they also share a kind of paranoids born of this ever ending war with the liberal left, their nemesisic enemy.

Considering that Phillips was once a left wing columnist on the Guardian and Hitchens a communist there's rather a bittersweet comic twist to that.

Now, for myself I've always been rather neo con but I can't say that I'm as far too the right on foreign policy as they are.

Still, I enjoy reading their musings, I can recommend reading Phillips's blog....She certainly puts the work in.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Sir James Hird Mount Martha 25 Nov 12 4.26am
Palestine/Israel, Israel/Palestine. Politics/Historical Emnity/Religion. I saw a newsreel from Gaza showing a man coming from the ruins with a baby who was obviously dead, The child was like a limp rag. Is it all worth it. The death of a child far outweighs anything. Stop the killing. It solves nothing. Sorry but one of my sons presented my wife and I with a beautiful grandson, probably on the day that the child in Gaza died.
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Sir James Hird

Mount Martha 25 Nov 12 4.26am

Palestine/Israel, Israel/Palestine.
Politics/Historical Emnity/Religion.
I saw a newsreel from Gaza showing a man coming from the ruins with a baby who was obviously dead, The child was like a limp rag. Is it all worth it.
The death of a child far outweighs anything.
Stop the killing. It solves nothing.
Sorry but one of my sons presented my wife and I with a beautiful grandson, probably on the day that the child in Gaza died.

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Stirlingsays 25 Nov 12 5.45am
Quote Sir James Hird at 25 Nov 2012 4.26am Palestine/Israel, Israel/Palestine. Politics/Historical Emnity/Religion. I saw a newsreel from Gaza showing a man coming from the ruins with a baby who was obviously dead, The child was like a limp rag. Is it all worth it. The death of a child far outweighs anything. Stop the killing. It solves nothing. Sorry but one of my sons presented my wife and I with a beautiful grandson, probably on the day that the child in Gaza died. I'm afraid your viewpoint isn't shared by those in the actual situation. They live it, they get to decide how to respond. Children die in their many thousands every day, from starvation and disease. Many of those deaths are preventable but they will never reach a TV screen. Far less than die in conflicts. This isn't a fair world and never will be. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

25 Nov 12 5.45am

Quote Sir James Hird at 25 Nov 2012 4.26am

I'm afraid your viewpoint isn't shared by those in the actual situation. They live it, they get to decide how to respond.

Children die in their many thousands every day, from starvation and disease. Many of those deaths are preventable but they will never reach a TV screen. Far less than die in conflicts. This isn't a fair world and never will be.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Sir James Hird Mount Martha 25 Nov 12 7.09am
Whilst your view is accepted and it is by the majority I agree things will never change.
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Sir James Hird

Mount Martha 25 Nov 12 7.09am

Whilst your view is accepted and it is by the majority I agree things will never change.

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