Man blacks up as Diane Abbott at the darts.Racist?

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Man blacks up as Diane Abbott at the darts.Racist?

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Hrolf The Ganger 18 Dec 17 9.42pm
Originally posted by regal_eagle Not in the slightest, she should be criticised for not being able to do her job properly, having a total lack of grasp of maths, for telling an African News outlet that she had her own political discussion programme on BBC, for not being able to sort that fkn annoying chipped tooth out etc, etc. Her colour shouldn't even come into it. Exactly. So if you want to mock her uselessness in fancy dress, you have to black up or no one will have any idea who you are.
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Hrolf The Ganger

18 Dec 17 9.42pm

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Originally posted by regal_eagle

Not in the slightest, she should be criticised for not being able to do her job properly, having a total lack of grasp of maths, for telling an African News outlet that she had her own political discussion programme on BBC, for not being able to sort that fkn annoying chipped tooth out etc, etc.

Her colour shouldn't even come into it.

Exactly.
So if you want to mock her uselessness in fancy dress, you have to black up or no one will have any idea who you are.

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Beanyboysmd 19 Dec 17 11.46am
And this is ultimatly the problem, the line of 'if its not hurting anyone, I should be able to do what I want' is totally correct, but heres the problem, most black people are hurt by doing it. Its not like people dont know that, its not like you can claim ignorance on it either. So doing it knowing it hurts people is whats wrong with it, it isnt a big middle finger up to the 'PC brigade', its not 'shots fired at those lefties'. Its a ghastly tribute to the days when as a country we looked down on black people. Doesnt matter if doing it pisses off groups you dont like, its offensive to a group of people who frankly do not need reminding of what we think are 'the good old days'. Its offensive to black people, ignore the fact that the groups you dont like have joined the bandwagon and focus on that...
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Beanyboysmd

19 Dec 17 11.46am

And this is ultimatly the problem, the line of 'if its not hurting anyone, I should be able to do what I want' is totally correct, but heres the problem, most black people are hurt by doing it. Its not like people dont know that, its not like you can claim ignorance on it either. So doing it knowing it hurts people is whats wrong with it, it isnt a big middle finger up to the 'PC brigade', its not 'shots fired at those lefties'. Its a ghastly tribute to the days when as a country we looked down on black people. Doesnt matter if doing it pisses off groups you dont like, its offensive to a group of people who frankly do not need reminding of what we think are 'the good old days'.
Its offensive to black people, ignore the fact that the groups you dont like have joined the bandwagon and focus on that...

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Beanyboysmd 19 Dec 17 11.59am
I know I sound like one of those 'lefties' or a member of the pc brigade over this and the truth is I am probably centre left over stuff like this, but it comes from a genuine place. When I was 7 we beat Liverpool in the FA cup semi final, Ian Wright was my hero at the time so that was probably the best day of my life! As you can imagine I couldnt wait to go to school and talk about it! When I did, I was told by a teacher that the win didnt count because a 'n@##er' scored and Liverpool technically won. That day I went home and asked my parents if it was true. It didnt sound true but if an adult said it it was probably true, luckilly my parents corrected me on it but for a whole day, I was heartbroken because a black person stopped Crystal Palace from winning properly. What we do and say has a massive influence on people, its important that we dont normalise stuff like blacking up again. I dont believe for a second that the person doing it had racist intent and I dont believe anyone in this group is racist, but just because it was ok to say and do before, doesnt mean we should let it continue...
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Beanyboysmd

19 Dec 17 11.59am

I know I sound like one of those 'lefties' or a member of the pc brigade over this and the truth is I am probably centre left over stuff like this, but it comes from a genuine place.
When I was 7 we beat Liverpool in the FA cup semi final, Ian Wright was my hero at the time so that was probably the best day of my life! As you can imagine I couldnt wait to go to school and talk about it!
When I did, I was told by a teacher that the win didnt count because a 'n@##er' scored and Liverpool technically won. That day I went home and asked my parents if it was true. It didnt sound true but if an adult said it it was probably true, luckilly my parents corrected me on it but for a whole day, I was heartbroken because a black person stopped Crystal Palace from winning properly.
What we do and say has a massive influence on people, its important that we dont normalise stuff like blacking up again. I dont believe for a second that the person doing it had racist intent and I dont believe anyone in this group is racist, but just because it was ok to say and do before, doesnt mean we should let it continue...

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Midlands Eagle 19 Dec 17 12.03pm
Originally posted by Beanyboysmd heres the problem, most black people are hurt by doing it. Its not like people dont know that, its not like you can claim ignorance on it either. So doing it knowing it hurts people is whats wrong with it, Its offensive to black people, ignore the fact that the groups you dont like have joined the bandwagon and focus on that... I haven't read the whole thread but I'm interested to know if you are black and speaking from experience or are you are a liberal who feels obliged to be offended on behalf of someone else? Personally I think that someone has built a giant mountain out of a tiny molehill
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Midlands Eagle

19 Dec 17 12.03pm

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Originally posted by Beanyboysmd

heres the problem, most black people are hurt by doing it. Its not like people dont know that, its not like you can claim ignorance on it either. So doing it knowing it hurts people is whats wrong with it,

Its offensive to black people, ignore the fact that the groups you dont like have joined the bandwagon and focus on that...

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm interested to know if you are black and speaking from experience or are you are a liberal who feels obliged to be offended on behalf of someone else?

Personally I think that someone has built a giant mountain out of a tiny molehill

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Stirlingsays 19 Dec 17 12.23pm
Originally posted by Beanyboysmd And this is ultimatly the problem, the line of 'if its not hurting anyone, I should be able to do what I want' is totally correct, but heres the problem, most black people are hurt by doing it. Its not like people dont know that, its not like you can claim ignorance on it either. So doing it knowing it hurts people is whats wrong with it, it isnt a big middle finger up to the 'PC brigade', its not 'shots fired at those lefties'. Its a ghastly tribute to the days when as a country we looked down on black people. Doesnt matter if doing it pisses off groups you dont like, its offensive to a group of people who frankly do not need reminding of what we think are 'the good old days'. Its offensive to black people, ignore the fact that the groups you dont like have joined the bandwagon and focus on that... So basically you believe in 'protected classes' based upon someone's skin colour. I recognise the intent means well but I completely disagree with it. A sub set of a group of people being offended is life.....There are certain people on this site who talk ill of unionists, which is half my family...I tell them what I think, I don't agree that they shouldn't be allowed to express their view. Debate and criticise but no compulsion against non violent ideas. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

19 Dec 17 12.23pm

Originally posted by Beanyboysmd

So basically you believe in 'protected classes' based upon someone's skin colour.

I recognise the intent means well but I completely disagree with it. A sub set of a group of people being offended is life.....There are certain people on this site who talk ill of unionists, which is half my family...I tell them what I think, I don't agree that they shouldn't be allowed to express their view.

Debate and criticise but no compulsion against non violent ideas.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Beanyboysmd 19 Dec 17 12.44pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays So basically you believe in 'protected classes' based upon someone's skin colour. I recognise the intent means well but I completely disagree with it. A sub set of a group of people being offended is life.....There are certain people on this site who talk ill of unionists, which is half my family...I tell them what I think, I don't agree that they shouldn't be allowed to express their view. Debate and criticise but no compulsion against non violent ideas. 'Protected classes' is an interesting way of putting it. I would say protecting all classes is important, even ours, if we had grotesque tributes to our past I would apply it to this situation. But this is the important thing because it works both ways, freedom of expression is important, freedom to criticize if we dont like something is just as important, we have seen both in play over this situation. I have the right to say anything, you and everyone here have the right to verbally kick my ass over it and vice versa. It doesnt mean you can do something that a lot of people view as racist and not expect a very negative reaction. I wouldnt say I am protective of one group because I react the same when Muslim hate preechers shout vile stuff about white people, Brits or christians. It would genuinly be interesting to know how a lot of you guys react when you see on tv our racial group attacked by hate preecher because its about the only equivalent we have...
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Beanyboysmd

19 Dec 17 12.44pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

So basically you believe in 'protected classes' based upon someone's skin colour.

Debate and criticise but no compulsion against non violent ideas.

'Protected classes' is an interesting way of putting it. I would say protecting all classes is important, even ours, if we had grotesque tributes to our past I would apply it to this situation.
But this is the important thing because it works both ways, freedom of expression is important, freedom to criticize if we dont like something is just as important, we have seen both in play over this situation. I have the right to say anything, you and everyone here have the right to verbally kick my ass over it and vice versa. It doesnt mean you can do something that a lot of people view as racist and not expect a very negative reaction. I wouldnt say I am protective of one group because I react the same when Muslim hate preechers shout vile stuff about white people, Brits or christians.

It would genuinly be interesting to know how a lot of you guys react when you see on tv our racial group attacked by hate preecher because its about the only equivalent we have...

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npn Crowborough 19 Dec 17 12.49pm
As a fancy dress idea, it was actually a funny one. It's mocking a prominent politician's apparent inability to count, suggesting she'd be celebrating a 190 score. The question is, how do you, as a white bloke, dress up as Diane Abbott? I certainly wouldn't have done it for fear of this kind of reaction, but it's actually quite a funny idea (forget the blackface, just the idea of Diane Abbott shouting "one hundred and ninety"). If only one of their number were black and could've donned the outfit, it would be a funny gag. I'm also a bit conflicted about Morris Dancers - some of them traditionally black up, and have done for centuries (nothing to do with pretending to be black people at all as far as I understand) but they are now being forced to stop doing it, so a centuries old tradition, which has no harm to anyone at it's core will inevitably die out so as to not offend people who don't understand what it means and can't be bothered to find out. There's a town near me called Blackboys - I'm expecting that to be targetted at some point (named after a local pub dating back to the 1300s, where workers transporting charcoal would stop en route, obviously they'd all be black from their cargo) Edited by npn (19 Dec 2017 12.50pm)
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npn

Crowborough 19 Dec 17 12.49pm

As a fancy dress idea, it was actually a funny one. It's mocking a prominent politician's apparent inability to count, suggesting she'd be celebrating a 190 score. The question is, how do you, as a white bloke, dress up as Diane Abbott? I certainly wouldn't have done it for fear of this kind of reaction, but it's actually quite a funny idea (forget the blackface, just the idea of Diane Abbott shouting "one hundred and ninety"). If only one of their number were black and could've donned the outfit, it would be a funny gag.

I'm also a bit conflicted about Morris Dancers - some of them traditionally black up, and have done for centuries (nothing to do with pretending to be black people at all as far as I understand) but they are now being forced to stop doing it, so a centuries old tradition, which has no harm to anyone at it's core will inevitably die out so as to not offend people who don't understand what it means and can't be bothered to find out.

There's a town near me called Blackboys - I'm expecting that to be targetted at some point (named after a local pub dating back to the 1300s, where workers transporting charcoal would stop en route, obviously they'd all be black from their cargo)

Edited by npn (19 Dec 2017 12.50pm)

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Stirlingsays 19 Dec 17 12.52pm
Originally posted by Beanyboysmd 'Protected classes' is an interesting way of putting it. I would say protecting all classes is important, even ours, if we had grotesque tributes to our past I would apply it to this situation. But this is the important thing because it works both ways, freedom of expression is important, freedom to criticize if we dont like something is just as important, we have seen both in play over this situation. I have the right to say anything, you and everyone here have the right to verbally kick my ass over it and vice versa. It doesnt mean you can do something that a lot of people view as racist and not expect a very negative reaction. I wouldnt say I am protective of one group because I react the same when Muslim hate preechers shout vile stuff about white people, Brits or christians. It would genuinly be interesting to know how a lot of you guys react when you see on tv our racial group attacked by hate preecher because its about the only equivalent we have... Muslim hate preechers and white people 'blacking up'.....that's some crowbar comparison and hardly an equivalent. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

19 Dec 17 12.52pm

Originally posted by Beanyboysmd

It would genuinly be interesting to know how a lot of you guys react when you see on tv our racial group attacked by hate preecher because its about the only equivalent we have...

Muslim hate preechers and white people 'blacking up'.....that's some crowbar comparison and hardly an equivalent.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Beanyboysmd 19 Dec 17 12.57pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle I haven't read the whole thread but I'm interested to know if you are black and speaking from experience or are you are a liberal who feels obliged to be offended on behalf of someone else? Personally I think that someone has built a giant mountain out of a tiny molehill Could well be right bud, but when people talk about the days when this country was openly racist, everyone has always said 'well at least its not like the past when you could get away with blacking up!' This is literally what we as a society wanted to avoid going back to!!! As ive said several times though, I dont believe it was racist, I believe it was a stupid thing to do. I also believe we have the right to call him stupid for doing so. Im not one of these 'safe space' lefties. Im just someone who is annoyed that in 2017, is even in an conversation where there is a 'pro-blackface' camp! Even if you think you have the right to do it, even if there is no bad intent at all, even if you think it will 'piss off the left' or you have a black friend who thinks its fine...its 2017, can we just agree not to black up anymore?
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Beanyboysmd

19 Dec 17 12.57pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm interested to know if you are black and speaking from experience or are you are a liberal who feels obliged to be offended on behalf of someone else?

Personally I think that someone has built a giant mountain out of a tiny molehill

Could well be right bud, but when people talk about the days when this country was openly racist, everyone has always said 'well at least its not like the past when you could get away with blacking up!' This is literally what we as a society wanted to avoid going back to!!!
As ive said several times though, I dont believe it was racist, I believe it was a stupid thing to do. I also believe we have the right to call him stupid for doing so. Im not one of these 'safe space' lefties. Im just someone who is annoyed that in 2017, is even in an conversation where there is a 'pro-blackface' camp!
Even if you think you have the right to do it, even if there is no bad intent at all, even if you think it will 'piss off the left' or you have a black friend who thinks its fine...its 2017, can we just agree not to black up anymore?

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Beanyboysmd 19 Dec 17 12.59pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Muslim hate preechers and white people 'blacking up'.....that's some crowbar comparison and hardly an equivalent. Its not even close to an equivalent! But its genuinly the closest thing we have and even then its a massive stretch! Believe me I know I am asking you to makedo a massive jump but that is kinda my point, there is nothing we have gone through thats similar! If there was I would 'protect' us from it as well... Edited by Beanyboysmd (19 Dec 2017 1.02pm)
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Beanyboysmd

19 Dec 17 12.59pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Muslim hate preechers and white people 'blacking up'.....that's some crowbar comparison and hardly an equivalent.

Its not even close to an equivalent! But its genuinly the closest thing we have and even then its a massive stretch! Believe me I know I am asking you to makedo a massive jump but that is kinda my point, there is nothing we have gone through thats similar! If there was I would 'protect' us from it as well...

Edited by Beanyboysmd (19 Dec 2017 1.02pm)

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npn Crowborough 19 Dec 17 1.00pm
Originally posted by Beanyboysmd Could well be right bud, but when people talk about the days when this country was openly racist, everyone has always said 'well at least its not like the past when you could get away with blacking up!' This is literally what we as a society wanted to avoid going back to!!! As ive said several times though, I dont believe it was racist, I believe it was a stupid thing to do. I also believe we have the right to call him stupid for doing so. Im not one of these 'safe space' lefties. Im just someone who is annoyed that in 2017, is even in an conversation where there is a 'pro-blackface' camp! Even if you think you have the right to do it, even if there is no bad intent at all, even if you think it will 'piss off the left' or you have a black friend who thinks its fine...its 2017, can we just agree not to black up anymore? Out of interest, did you find the movie "White Chicks" equally offensive? And if not, why not?
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npn

Crowborough 19 Dec 17 1.00pm

Originally posted by Beanyboysmd

Out of interest, did you find the movie "White Chicks" equally offensive? And if not, why not?

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Beanyboysmd 19 Dec 17 1.06pm
Originally posted by npn Out of interest, did you find the movie "White Chicks" equally offensive? And if not, why not? That is annoyingly a genuinly brilliant counter! No, but if you were offended by people whiting up after centuries of being opressed and even as recently as a few years ago still being the butt of racist jokes then I would understand it and stand by you on it. Never thought 'White chicks' would ever be used as a a great point on anything, I am genuinly impressed!
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Beanyboysmd

19 Dec 17 1.06pm

Originally posted by npn

Out of interest, did you find the movie "White Chicks" equally offensive? And if not, why not?

That is annoyingly a genuinly brilliant counter! No, but if you were offended by people whiting up after centuries of being opressed and even as recently as a few years ago still being the butt of racist jokes then I would understand it and stand by you on it.

Never thought 'White chicks' would ever be used as a a great point on anything, I am genuinly impressed!

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