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Fidel Castro

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matt_himself Flag Matataland 29 Nov 16 9.44am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by legaleagle

Number of people incarcerated per 10,000 of population as of April 2016:

USA...693

Cuba...510

As for gay rights,as I have said before the comparator is similar counties,ie Jamaica or Dominican Republic (which tried to stop the appointment of a gay US ambassador..

According to the New York Times,Fidel's niece has been a tireless campaigner for gay rights...

"After the 2007 march, Ms. Castro, who is straight, began a public campaign to promote tolerance. She persuaded the government in recent years to offer state-paid gender reassignment surgery and hormone treatment for transgender people. Last year (2013), when the Assembly passed a labor code that protected gays and lesbians — but not transgender people — from discrimination in the workplace, Ms. Castro became the first lawmaker in Cuban history to cast a dissenting vote in protest. Her ultimate goal, she said, was codifying full equality under the law.

Gay Cubans say that discrimination remains a problem, particularly outside big cities. Still, last year, a woman in Caribién, a municipality east of Havana, became the country’s first transgender elected official. At the urging of Ms. Castro and gay bloggers, in 2010 Cuba began voting in favor of resolutions supporting gay rights at the United Nations, breaking ranks with allies in Africa and the Caribbean."

I don't shy away from the repressive aspects of Fidel's rule...I just find it ironic when people so uncritically swallow 50 years' ceaseless propaganda emanating from the US,particularly in the form of the Calle Ocho nutters,and fail to judge Cuba relative its comparators and in light of 50 years' unceasing hostility and economic pressure..


Edited by legaleagle (29 Nov 2016 9.42am)

Or you could swallow 50 years of romanticised Cuban history and be a complete hypocrite.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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chris123 Flag hove actually 29 Nov 16 9.57am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by legaleagle

Number of people incarcerated per 10,000 of population as of April 2016:

USA...693

Cuba...510

As for gay rights,as I have said before the comparator is similar counties,ie Jamaica or Dominican Republic (which tried to stop the appointment of a gay US ambassador..

According to the New York Times,Fidel's niece has been a tireless campaigner for gay rights...

"After the 2007 march, Ms. Castro, who is straight, began a public campaign to promote tolerance. She persuaded the government in recent years to offer state-paid gender reassignment surgery and hormone treatment for transgender people. Last year (2013), when the Assembly passed a labor code that protected gays and lesbians — but not transgender people — from discrimination in the workplace, Ms. Castro became the first lawmaker in Cuban history to cast a dissenting vote in protest. Her ultimate goal, she said, was codifying full equality under the law.

Gay Cubans say that discrimination remains a problem, particularly outside big cities. Still, last year, a woman in Caribién, a municipality east of Havana, became the country’s first transgender elected official. At the urging of Ms. Castro and gay bloggers, in 2010 Cuba began voting in favor of resolutions supporting gay rights at the United Nations, breaking ranks with allies in Africa and the Caribbean."

I don't shy away from the repressive aspects of Fidel's rule...I just find it ironic when people so uncritically swallow 50 years' ceaseless propaganda emanating from the US,particularly in the form of the Calle Ocho nutters,and fail to judge Cuba relative its comparators and in light of 50 years' unceasing hostility and economic pressure..


Edited by legaleagle (29 Nov 2016 9.42am)

The US incarcerates 693 in 10,000? I don't believe it.

 

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legaleagle Flag 29 Nov 16 10.00am

My error,the figures I posted for Cuba ad USA are per 100,0000 of population..

 

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legaleagle Flag 29 Nov 16 10.03am

Originally posted by matt_himself

Or you could swallow 50 years of romanticised Cuban history and be a complete hypocrite.

one could be but I don't think so in this instance,compadre

 

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Stuk Flag Top half 29 Nov 16 11.25am Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by SW16eagle

Speaking as a "lefty" seeing other leftists support an oppressive dictator is just laughable.
People talk about the literacy rate but I don't really see the good in being literate if it doesn't enable you to be a free thinker, and i wonder what kind of medical care the gay men Castro threw in labor camps received. Would love to see how these people would react to any right wing dictator who improved health care and literacy rates if they did pesky little things like killing people

So you can read the rules.

 


Optimistic as ever

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NickinOX Flag Sailing country. 29 Nov 16 11.40am Send a Private Message to NickinOX Add NickinOX as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

The US incarcerates 693 in 10,000? I don't believe it.

It is normally listed as x per 100,000. I don't know the number, but that looks way off., but it is probably just a typo on his part. I just spotted that he fixed it.

Of course, even if it were true it ignores the fact that Cuba has imprisoned all of its citizens merely for having the misfortune of being born there, and excluded millions from the political process merely by dint of not being a communist. But other than that, he's comparing like with like...

Edited by NickinOX (29 Nov 2016 11.41am)

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 29 Nov 16 12.29pm

Originally posted by SW16eagle

Speaking as a "lefty" seeing other leftists support an oppressive dictator is just laughable.
People talk about the literacy rate but I don't really see the good in being literate if it doesn't enable you to be a free thinker, and i wonder what kind of medical care the gay men Castro threw in labor camps received. Would love to see how these people would react to any right wing dictator who improved health care and literacy rates if they did pesky little things like killing people

Try being a free thinker without being able to read. Its worth noting that being in Cuba doesn't stop you being a free thinker, its about freedom of expression. Plenty of free thinkers in dictatorships - in fact arguably its a breeding ground when the act of rebellion is expression.

That's without looking at the absurdity of the idea of 'free thinker' as a real thing.

Now that's not to say that the suppression of Cuba is acceptable, but that discounting things like literacy and education because they don't conform to your standards of social right and political view is absurd as its unrelated.


 


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Hoof Hearted 29 Nov 16 12.30pm

Originally posted by SW16eagle

Speaking as a "lefty" seeing other leftists support an oppressive dictator is just laughable.
People talk about the literacy rate but I don't really see the good in being literate if it doesn't enable you to be a free thinker, and i wonder what kind of medical care the gay men Castro threw in labor camps received. Would love to see how these people would react to any right wing dictator who improved health care and literacy rates if they did pesky little things like killing people

Are you sure you're a lefty SW16?

You seem like a free thinker to me!

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 29 Nov 16 12.34pm

Originally posted by NickinOX

It is normally listed as x per 100,000. I don't know the number, but that looks way off., but it is probably just a typo on his part. I just spotted that he fixed it.

Of course, even if it were true it ignores the fact that Cuba has imprisoned all of its citizens merely for having the misfortune of being born there, and excluded millions from the political process merely by dint of not being a communist. But other than that, he's comparing like with like...

Edited by NickinOX (29 Nov 2016 11.41am)

True, but the it is a dictatorship its not supposed to serve as a good example. The US has a massive prison population, and questionable bed fellows in terms of executions.

The US imprisons people on a scale that tends only to be seen in oppressive regimes and its executions put it in a pattern with countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, China and North Korea.

They might be worse countries with terrible regimes, but that doesn't distract from the fact that the only states that are worse, are very bad countries with terrible human rights issues.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hoof Hearted 29 Nov 16 12.35pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Try being a free thinker without being able to read. Its worth noting that being in Cuba doesn't stop you being a free thinker, its about freedom of expression. Plenty of free thinkers in dictatorships - in fact arguably its a breeding ground when the act of rebellion is expression.

That's without looking at the absurdity of the idea of 'free thinker' as a real thing.

Now that's not to say that the suppression of Cuba is acceptable, but that discounting things like literacy and education because they don't conform to your standards of social right and political view is absurd as its unrelated.


Tell that to the families of Castro's tortured/murdered victims who opposed his regime Jamie... not us!

I'm not sure they would trade the loss of a loved one for improved literacy and education as blithely as you suggest.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 29 Nov 16 12.40pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Are you sure you're a lefty SW16?

You seem like a free thinker to me!

Well the National Socialist Party of Germany wasn't entirely without achievement, and quite possibly if it had avoided suppression of the Jews, and getting into a European War, might well have survived longer than four years.

The problem with most of our experiences of Far Right Oppressive regimes, is that they do have a nasty tendency to be good for us economically, rather than for the people of those countries most in need.

Of course its tends to be problematic as well in that Cuba persecuted dissidents, and former regime members - on the whole - where as National Socialism persecuted people on the basis of being personal prejudice (which of course Cuba isn't itself innocent of either).

Plus the holocaust tends to hang heavy in the west, where as the cruelty of pol pot, stalin and moa tends to be overlooked as remote, because it happened 'elsewhere'

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 29 Nov 16 12.50pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

IMO Cubans have a better life than USA or UK and should be left to live peacefully without interference.

Corbyn's view of Cuba is balanced and he has actually been there several times. I found it much the same when I was there he did talk about human rights too -however when talking about human rights the UK and USA really should be looking at themselves.

People who live in greenhouses should not throw stones.

 

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