The Tory Government.

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The Tory Government.

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chris123 hove actually 27 Oct 15 10.34am
Quote black eagle. at 27 Oct 2015 10.07am Camaron and Osborne are both multi millionaires who care little about famalies struggling to make ends meet. they are both out off touch and despite promising not to cut tax credits before the election they have broken their promise. Everyone who voted tory have got exactly what they want four more years off hardship under the tories. Compared to the rest of Europe, with the exception maybe of Germany, I don't think we've been exposed to anything like the same levels of hardship as our neighbours.
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chris123

hove actually 27 Oct 15 10.34am

Quote black eagle. at 27 Oct 2015 10.07am

Camaron and Osborne are both multi millionaires who care little about famalies struggling to make ends meet.

they are both out off touch and despite promising not to cut tax credits before the election they have broken their promise.

Everyone who voted tory have got exactly what they want four more years off hardship under the tories.

Compared to the rest of Europe, with the exception maybe of Germany, I don't think we've been exposed to anything like the same levels of hardship as our neighbours.

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Kermit8 Hevon 27 Oct 15 11.12am
J Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Oct 2015 10.11am Quote black eagle. at 27 Oct 2015 10.07am Camaron and Osborne are both multi millionaires who care little about famalies struggling to make ends meet. they are both out off touch and despite promising not to cut tax credits before the election they have broken their promise. Everyone who voted tory have got exactly what they want four more years off hardship under the tories. I am fairly sure that they didn't. Cameron did when pushed on the matter by Dimbley pre-election. Here it is [Link] Edited by Kermit8 (27 Oct 2015 11.16am) Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 27 Oct 15 11.12am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Oct 2015 10.11am

Quote black eagle. at 27 Oct 2015 10.07am

Camaron and Osborne are both multi millionaires who care little about famalies struggling to make ends meet.

they are both out off touch and despite promising not to cut tax credits before the election they have broken their promise.

Everyone who voted tory have got exactly what they want four more years off hardship under the tories.

I am fairly sure that they didn't.

Cameron did when pushed on the matter by Dimbley pre-election. Here it is [Link]

Edited by Kermit8 (27 Oct 2015 11.16am)

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 27 Oct 15 11.23am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 27 Oct 2015 9.48am Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 8.44am Osborne looking shaky and repetitive in his BBC interview. A spoilt little brat used to getting his own way in his younger days doing a bit of toy throwing today. It's great to see. A lot of these workers that would have been affected are employed by the public sector so it's not quite as simple as increasing wages commensurate with the losses incurred. Not everyone doing the same job will be getting the low pay top-up. This is something Gordon Brown got right. A rare moment. Tax credits are a valued and moral and earned benefit. Something the Tories should have respected. Really? When it was introduced in 1999 it cost the UK taxpayer £2.3 Billion. The tax credit system now costs us £31 Billion. Even the staunchest Labour supporters agree that it has escalated out of control and needs reining back. Yes Osborne got it wrong with the pace of change and the effect on lowest paid, BUT as Matt_Himself says above it has to be abolished and replaced with a simple system where people are paid more and taxed less. I seem to remember a big drop in unemployment from 97 onwards which would explain a rise in the cost of working tax credits. Better that than less jobs and having to pay out more in dole money. Occasionally, governments do good and a slight re-distribution of wealth to help low-paid working families was one of those times. The sentiment behind it was to assist. Like the NHS. We should give Brown some 'credit' too. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 27 Oct 15 11.23am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 27 Oct 2015 9.48am

Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 8.44am

Osborne looking shaky and repetitive in his BBC interview.

A spoilt little brat used to getting his own way in his younger days doing a bit of toy throwing today.

It's great to see.

A lot of these workers that would have been affected are employed by the public sector so it's not quite as simple as increasing wages commensurate with the losses incurred. Not everyone doing the same job will be getting the low pay top-up.

This is something Gordon Brown got right. A rare moment.

Tax credits are a valued and moral and earned benefit. Something the Tories should have respected.

Really?

When it was introduced in 1999 it cost the UK taxpayer £2.3 Billion.

The tax credit system now costs us £31 Billion.

Even the staunchest Labour supporters agree that it has escalated out of control and needs reining back.

Yes Osborne got it wrong with the pace of change and the effect on lowest paid, BUT as Matt_Himself says above it has to be abolished and replaced with a simple system where people are paid more and taxed less.

I seem to remember a big drop in unemployment from 97 onwards which would explain a rise in the cost of working tax credits. Better that than less jobs and having to pay out more in dole money.

Occasionally, governments do good and a slight re-distribution of wealth to help low-paid working families was one of those times. The sentiment behind it was to assist. Like the NHS. We should give Brown some 'credit' too.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 27 Oct 15 11.50am
Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 11.12am J Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Oct 2015 10.11am Quote black eagle. at 27 Oct 2015 10.07am Camaron and Osborne are both multi millionaires who care little about famalies struggling to make ends meet. they are both out off touch and despite promising not to cut tax credits before the election they have broken their promise. Everyone who voted tory have got exactly what they want four more years off hardship under the tories. I am fairly sure that they didn't. Cameron did when pushed on the matter by Dimbley pre-election. Here it is [Link] Edited by Kermit8 (27 Oct 2015 11.16am) Fair enough - I thought they had been very careful not to. the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 27 Oct 15 11.50am

Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 11.12am

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Oct 2015 10.11am

Quote black eagle. at 27 Oct 2015 10.07am

Camaron and Osborne are both multi millionaires who care little about famalies struggling to make ends meet.

they are both out off touch and despite promising not to cut tax credits before the election they have broken their promise.

Everyone who voted tory have got exactly what they want four more years off hardship under the tories.

I am fairly sure that they didn't.

Cameron did when pushed on the matter by Dimbley pre-election. Here it is [Link]

Edited by Kermit8 (27 Oct 2015 11.16am)

Fair enough - I thought they had been very careful not to.

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Hoof Hearted 27 Oct 15 12.00pm
Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 11.23am Quote Hoof Hearted at 27 Oct 2015 9.48am Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 8.44am Osborne looking shaky and repetitive in his BBC interview. A spoilt little brat used to getting his own way in his younger days doing a bit of toy throwing today. It's great to see. A lot of these workers that would have been affected are employed by the public sector so it's not quite as simple as increasing wages commensurate with the losses incurred. Not everyone doing the same job will be getting the low pay top-up. This is something Gordon Brown got right. A rare moment. Tax credits are a valued and moral and earned benefit. Something the Tories should have respected. Really? When it was introduced in 1999 it cost the UK taxpayer £2.3 Billion. The tax credit system now costs us £31 Billion. Even the staunchest Labour supporters agree that it has escalated out of control and needs reining back. Yes Osborne got it wrong with the pace of change and the effect on lowest paid, BUT as Matt_Himself says above it has to be abolished and replaced with a simple system where people are paid more and taxed less. I seem to remember a big drop in unemployment from 97 onwards which would explain a rise in the cost of working tax credits. Better that than less jobs and having to pay out more in dole money. Occasionally, governments do good and a slight re-distribution of wealth to help low-paid working families was one of those times. The sentiment behind it was to assist. Like the NHS. We should give Brown some 'credit' too. Tax Credits were introduced in 1999 and reformed in 2003. What's 1997 got to do with it Kermy love?
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Hoof Hearted 27 Oct 15 12.00pm

Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 11.23am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 27 Oct 2015 9.48am

Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 8.44am

Osborne looking shaky and repetitive in his BBC interview.

A spoilt little brat used to getting his own way in his younger days doing a bit of toy throwing today.

It's great to see.

This is something Gordon Brown got right. A rare moment.

Tax credits are a valued and moral and earned benefit. Something the Tories should have respected.

Really?

When it was introduced in 1999 it cost the UK taxpayer £2.3 Billion.

The tax credit system now costs us £31 Billion.

Even the staunchest Labour supporters agree that it has escalated out of control and needs reining back.

I seem to remember a big drop in unemployment from 97 onwards which would explain a rise in the cost of working tax credits. Better that than less jobs and having to pay out more in dole money.

Tax Credits were introduced in 1999 and reformed in 2003.

What's 1997 got to do with it Kermy love?

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Kermit8 Hevon 27 Oct 15 12.08pm
Apologies. I was getting the tragic death(MURDER!) of the Queen of Hearts mixed up with welfare reform. Easy mistake. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 27 Oct 15 12.08pm

Apologies. I was getting the tragic death(MURDER!) of the Queen of Hearts mixed up with welfare reform. Easy mistake.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Hoof Hearted 27 Oct 15 2.37pm
Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 12.08pm Apologies. I was getting the tragic death(MURDER!) of the Queen of Hearts mixed up with welfare reform. Easy mistake. Another bad thing that happened on Blair/Brown's watch!
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Hoof Hearted 27 Oct 15 2.37pm

Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 12.08pm

Apologies. I was getting the tragic death(MURDER!) of the Queen of Hearts mixed up with welfare reform. Easy mistake.

Another bad thing that happened on Blair/Brown's watch!

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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Oct 15 4.12pm
Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 11.23am Quote Hoof Hearted at 27 Oct 2015 9.48am Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 8.44am Osborne looking shaky and repetitive in his BBC interview. A spoilt little brat used to getting his own way in his younger days doing a bit of toy throwing today. It's great to see. A lot of these workers that would have been affected are employed by the public sector so it's not quite as simple as increasing wages commensurate with the losses incurred. Not everyone doing the same job will be getting the low pay top-up. This is something Gordon Brown got right. A rare moment. Tax credits are a valued and moral and earned benefit. Something the Tories should have respected. Really? When it was introduced in 1999 it cost the UK taxpayer £2.3 Billion. The tax credit system now costs us £31 Billion. Even the staunchest Labour supporters agree that it has escalated out of control and needs reining back. Yes Osborne got it wrong with the pace of change and the effect on lowest paid, BUT as Matt_Himself says above it has to be abolished and replaced with a simple system where people are paid more and taxed less. I seem to remember a big drop in unemployment from 97 onwards which would explain a rise in the cost of working tax credits. Better that than less jobs and having to pay out more in dole money. Occasionally, governments do good and a slight re-distribution of wealth to help low-paid working families was one of those times. The sentiment behind it was to assist. Like the NHS. We should give Brown some 'credit' too. What is interesting is that a large part of that period was a boom period for the economy, yet it seems that tax credits rose whilst unemployment went down For me, that's not a sign that 'welfare needs to be reformed' but that Companys and employers aren't paying sufficient wages to compensate for the cost of living (after all that was the longest boom period in history, or so we're told, with a massive drop in unemployment, where presumably companys were paying wages so low that people required family tax credit (causing a massive spike). But its definitely the fault of those on welfare, and not those companies paying them wages the nation had to subsidise through credits.... "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 27 Oct 15 4.12pm

Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 11.23am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 27 Oct 2015 9.48am

Quote Kermit8 at 27 Oct 2015 8.44am

Osborne looking shaky and repetitive in his BBC interview.

A spoilt little brat used to getting his own way in his younger days doing a bit of toy throwing today.

It's great to see.

This is something Gordon Brown got right. A rare moment.

Tax credits are a valued and moral and earned benefit. Something the Tories should have respected.

Really?

When it was introduced in 1999 it cost the UK taxpayer £2.3 Billion.

The tax credit system now costs us £31 Billion.

Even the staunchest Labour supporters agree that it has escalated out of control and needs reining back.

I seem to remember a big drop in unemployment from 97 onwards which would explain a rise in the cost of working tax credits. Better that than less jobs and having to pay out more in dole money.

What is interesting is that a large part of that period was a boom period for the economy, yet it seems that tax credits rose whilst unemployment went down

For me, that's not a sign that 'welfare needs to be reformed' but that Companys and employers aren't paying sufficient wages to compensate for the cost of living (after all that was the longest boom period in history, or so we're told, with a massive drop in unemployment, where presumably companys were paying wages so low that people required family tax credit (causing a massive spike).

But its definitely the fault of those on welfare, and not those companies paying them wages the nation had to subsidise through credits....

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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on me shed son Krakow 27 Oct 15 4.17pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Oct 2015 10.14am Quote Hoof Hearted at 27 Oct 2015 10.06am Despite my delight that the Lords have made Osborne rethink his strategy/timing with regard to this matter - I am uncomfortable with an unelected body like the House of Lords interfering with the business of the House of Commons. I think Cameron will act swiftly to prevent this happening again and will curb their powers. He can appoint more Tory Lords (and may well have to, to get a vote through their chamber anyway). The fact that he can do that makes a mockery of their decisions, undervaluing them by the fact that they can be swelled in ranks without an election but on the whim of the Prime Minister. I forgot that the Clergy are represented by 26 Bishops that can vote too. This seems like a lot of power that they can wield and is not commensurate with dwindling C of E attendances on Sunday mornings when one man, his dog and an organist turn up for prayers these days. I'm surprised that other faiths haven't demanded representation. All in all, the House of Lords costs the country a small fortune to run and for the good it is, it might as well be abolished because ultimately the House of Commons can always find a way to overrule it. The interesting thing about the lords, is that those appointed rarely resemble the person they were in parliament - The benefit of being in the Lords is that you are there irrespective of whether you toe the party line or not, and they tend towards their own views, beliefs and philosophies far more than the idea of party unity. The lords usually works paradoxically as a force for society, because it is unelected, unrepresentative and most importantly free of the influence of the whip and party over individuals. It still makes me very uneasy that there is an unelected second chamber made up of donors and cronies that is allowed to vote on legislation.
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on me shed son

Krakow 27 Oct 15 4.17pm

Send a Private Message to on me shed son

Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Oct 2015 10.14am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 27 Oct 2015 10.06am

Despite my delight that the Lords have made Osborne rethink his strategy/timing with regard to this matter - I am uncomfortable with an unelected body like the House of Lords interfering with the business of the House of Commons.

I think Cameron will act swiftly to prevent this happening again and will curb their powers.

He can appoint more Tory Lords (and may well have to, to get a vote through their chamber anyway). The fact that he can do that makes a mockery of their decisions, undervaluing them by the fact that they can be swelled in ranks without an election but on the whim of the Prime Minister.

I forgot that the Clergy are represented by 26 Bishops that can vote too.

This seems like a lot of power that they can wield and is not commensurate with dwindling C of E attendances on Sunday mornings when one man, his dog and an organist turn up for prayers these days.

I'm surprised that other faiths haven't demanded representation.

All in all, the House of Lords costs the country a small fortune to run and for the good it is, it might as well be abolished because ultimately the House of Commons can always find a way to overrule it.

The interesting thing about the lords, is that those appointed rarely resemble the person they were in parliament - The benefit of being in the Lords is that you are there irrespective of whether you toe the party line or not, and they tend towards their own views, beliefs and philosophies far more than the idea of party unity.

The lords usually works paradoxically as a force for society, because it is unelected, unrepresentative and most importantly free of the influence of the whip and party over individuals.

It still makes me very uneasy that there is an unelected second chamber made up of donors and cronies that is allowed to vote on legislation.

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johnno42000 27 Oct 15 5.21pm
The Tories lied about not cutting Tax Credits, they have lied about the vote being unconstitutional (as it was not in their manifesto, was not amended and was not designated a Financial Bill) and the House of Lords have forced Snorter to re-think the policy. For me it was an excellent days work from the House of Lords, elected or not. 'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'
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johnno42000

27 Oct 15 5.21pm

The Tories lied about not cutting Tax Credits, they have lied about the vote being unconstitutional (as it was not in their manifesto, was not amended and was not designated a Financial Bill) and the House of Lords have forced Snorter to re-think the policy. For me it was an excellent days work from the House of Lords, elected or not.

'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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Dweeb East London 04 Nov 15 7.28am
Quote johnno42000 at 27 Oct 2015 5.21pm The Tories lied about not cutting Tax Credits, they have lied about the vote being unconstitutional (as it was not in their manifesto, was not amended and was not designated a Financial Bill) and the House of Lords have forced Snorter to re-think the policy. For me it was an excellent days work from the House of Lords, elected or not. Ditto Taking the bungy jump since 1964. Never to see John Jackson in a shirt again Sorry to see Lee Hills go, did we ever see Alex Marrow? We did January 2013
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Dweeb

East London 04 Nov 15 7.28am