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MP shot and stabbed

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laddo Flag london 17 Jun 16 12.36pm Send a Private Message to laddo Add laddo as a friend

What I find interesting is how rational people are saying "let's not jump to conclusions". Some are clearly uncomfortable with the potential right wing hatred connected to this as they cast a look at themselves in the mirror.

However, I agree a sense of rationality should be applied. After all, the suspect is a white male. If he was of asian descent shouting some ISIS stuff then fair game, throw rationality of the window, blame all muslims. But this is different. This was a white bloke. Let's all be calm people. Remain calm.

 


laddo

"People say, live fast, die young. I say live fast, die old. That's me, the non-conformist".
David Brent.

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 17 Jun 16 12.50pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Any of it proven though, or is it just conjecture?

[Link]

Jo Cox death: Alleged killer Tommy Mair 'bought gun-making manual from far-right neo-Nazi group'
Documents suggest Mair had recorded links to National Alliance

 

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matt_himself Flag Matataland 17 Jun 16 1.11pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

We do need a revision. Despite promises by government that more will be done in this area, the recent cuts along with privatisation have had a negative effect. It could be argued that the seeds of this can be traced back in part to 'care in the community'

Your second point would be very difficult. How can you ascertain for certain that someone is a risk? It seems (so far, obviously we don't know enough yet) that those who know the perpetrator are surprised he carried out such actions.

Whenever something like this happens, those who knew the perpetrator always say something like 'I didn't think he was capable of it' or 'he was such a gentle soul'.

Basically, mental illness comes in many forms and screening people who are suspected nut jobs needs to be done. Then secure and chemically restrain.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 17 Jun 16 1.52pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

Whenever something like this happens, those who knew the perpetrator always say something like 'I didn't think he was capable of it' or 'he was such a gentle soul'.

Basically, mental illness comes in many forms and screening people who are suspected nut jobs needs to be done. Then secure and chemically restrain.

How do you define a 'suspected nut job' possibly capable of murder?
What would the screening consist of? Who would carry this out and fund this? Even if it was possible, I'd imagine cost vs risk would make it financially unviable.
Is it ethical to chemically constrain somebody who 'may' do something?
Not being deliberately obtuse, these are genuine questions.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 Jun 16 2.27pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

[Link]

Jo Cox death: Alleged killer Tommy Mair 'bought gun-making manual from far-right neo-Nazi group'
Documents suggest Mair had recorded links to National Alliance

Nick. You paint yourself in a bad light sometimes.


Here you are falling over yourself to enphasise the far right wing nationalistic connection to this murder.

Shall we apply the same rational to the multitude of mass killings by Muslims?
It's no secret that ISIS has sympathy and even support from a significant minority of the Muslim community.

Do you want to shout so loudly about that?

Stop stirring. We don't need it.


 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 17 Jun 16 2.31pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Nick. You paint yourself in a bad light sometimes.


Here you are falling over yourself to enphasise the far right wing nationalistic connection to this murder.

Shall we apply the same rational to the multitude of mass killings by Muslims?
It's no secret that ISIS has sympathy and even support from a significant minority of the Muslim community.

Do you want to shout so loudly about that?

Stop stirring. We don't need it.


Nicely out of context Mr the Ganger (Are the g's in Ganger soft or hard?)

My link was in response to Hoof asking if Jo Cox's killer had any links to right wing nationalism.

Must try harder.


It's no secret that Britain First has sympathy from a 'significant' what a lovely definable subjective word)number of UK citizens.

Edited by nickgusset (17 Jun 2016 2.40pm)

Untitled.jpg Attachment: Untitled.jpg (53.39Kb)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 17 Jun 16 2.35pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Nicely out of context Mr the Ganger (Are the g's in Ganger soft or hard?)

My link was in response to Hoof asking if Jo Cox's killer had any links to right wing nationalism.

Must try harder.

What a nice opportunity for you.

You can call me Hrolfy if you like.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Jun 16 3.20pm

I think an act can be both a hate crime, an act of terrorism and the product of mental ill health. I think it would be churlish to specifically blame far right groups specifically as causing this, but there is a climate of antagonism that's been stoking recently, that could easily have fed into someone's mental health problems.

There is something of an appeal to far right and far left groups to alienated and psychologically unstable people, like Brevik. But they also don't tend to fit in well with those groups, because they're attracted to the mythology around them, rather than the politics involved - and typically want to do something immediate and now, rather than become involved in the endless meetings, discussions, socials and debates.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 17 Jun 16 3.35pm

[Link]

Counter terrorism police called in to help with investigation

 

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blackpalacefan Flag 17 Jun 16 3.35pm Send a Private Message to blackpalacefan Add blackpalacefan as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Nick. You paint yourself in a bad light sometimes.


Here you are falling over yourself to enphasise the far right wing nationalistic connection to this murder.

Shall we apply the same rational to the multitude of mass killings by Muslims?
It's no secret that ISIS has sympathy and even support from a significant minority of the Muslim community.

Do you want to shout so loudly about that?

Stop stirring. We don't need it.


if a muslim was thought to have bought a book containing details on how to build a bomb and then used it to blow someone up, i hardly think people would be accused of painting themselves in a bad light if they pointed that out.

instead of being annoyed at this man not ticking the right boxes for you we should concentrate on doing our best to stop all of those wishing to carry out extreme acts, on religious grounds political grounds and all others who are mentally in a dangerous place.. by keeping this material out of the hands. hopefully this loophole has already been tightened in recent years due to terror attacks rightly so.


Edited by blackpalacefan (17 Jun 2016 3.48pm)

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Jun 16 3.51pm

Or stop cutting spending on mental health programs and treatment programs. Friends of mine in these areas, which I have experienced first hand, have been complaining in recent years of less capacity and longer and longer times between referral and treatment - Especially for long term patients.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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blackpalacefan Flag 17 Jun 16 3.56pm Send a Private Message to blackpalacefan Add blackpalacefan as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Or stop cutting spending on mental health programs and treatment programs. Friends of mine in these areas, which I have experienced first hand, have been complaining in recent years of less capacity and longer and longer times between referral and treatment - Especially for long term patients.

yes an approach from all angles. i believe funding is lacking for mental health and its difficult to receive help so people just get worse or head down the wrong path.

 

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