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nickgusset  Shizzlehurst 17 Nov 15 4.04pm |
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Quote jason7 at 17 Nov 2015 3.46pm
So if some fanatical idiot came at him with a machete,he wouldn't expect his security team to stop him,he would instead shout "halt"and engage in conversation with him without excessive measures being used?
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 Mr Palaceman 17 Nov 15 6.21pm |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 17 Nov 2015 2.01pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 17 Nov 2015 1.52pm
Haven't heard his latest comments, haven't seen a lot of UK news. Can someone put up a link? Like other posters have said, I think his lack of experience of the front benches has found him wanting. The Guardian Thanks Y Ddraig Goch.. Having read the article, it doesn't seem to me that he is saying a lot. For me, it's not that complicated. If you have suspected terrorists in a flat and there is "some evidence" that they are plotting an attack. Get any bystanders out of the way and do what you can to arrest them, if you can. If they are alive then you can question them to find out more details of any networks or further plots, that could save lives. If you have some guy in a bar, holding hostages and you get a clear shot, take it as soon as you can and you shoot to kill.
"...any armed action by the police has to be proportionate to the threat” Covers all of the above. However, in addition, there are going to be times when as in the case of the IRA suspects shot in Gibraltar (I think it was), the authorities have to make a decision as to whether, they can justify what they do, when they are held to account. I don't think you need to negotiate in every circumstance. The immediate threat to the public needs to be negated first and everything else is secondary. In regards to the now Jilted John, we have a legal process in this country and if questions need to be asked, ask them. I don't think killing him has changed anything, someone else who we don't know about will carry out the atrocities but at least we know that these people are not out of reach from us. The killing of Alan Henning in particular, just over a year ago, still upsets me to this day. I regards to what Cameron has said about "shoot to kill" I don't think it makes a lot of difference. He has to say something and the law is still the same. Post Paris, a lot of these stories will be in the papers from now on.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 17 Nov 15 6.41pm |
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Quote Mr Palaceman at 17 Nov 2015 6.21pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 17 Nov 2015 2.01pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 17 Nov 2015 1.52pm
Haven't heard his latest comments, haven't seen a lot of UK news. Can someone put up a link? Like other posters have said, I think his lack of experience of the front benches has found him wanting. The Guardian Thanks Y Ddraig Goch.. Having read the article, it doesn't seem to me that he is saying a lot. For me, it's not that complicated. If you have suspected terrorists in a flat and there is "some evidence" that they are plotting an attack. Get any bystanders out of the way and do what you can to arrest them, if you can. If they are alive then you can question them to find out more details of any networks or further plots, that could save lives. If you have some guy in a bar, holding hostages and you get a clear shot, take it as soon as you can and you shoot to kill.
"...any armed action by the police has to be proportionate to the threat” Covers all of the above. However, in addition, there are going to be times when as in the case of the IRA suspects shot in Gibraltar (I think it was), the authorities have to make a decision as to whether, they can justify what they do, when they are held to account. I don't think you need to negotiate in every circumstance. The immediate threat to the public needs to be negated first and everything else is secondary. In regards to the now Jilted John, we have a legal process in this country and if questions need to be asked, ask them. I don't think killing him has changed anything, someone else who we don't know about will carry out the atrocities but at least we know that these people are not out of reach from us. The killing of Alan Henning in particular, just over a year ago, still upsets me to this day. I regards to what Cameron has said about "shoot to kill" I don't think it makes a lot of difference. He has to say something and the law is still the same. Post Paris, a lot of these stories will be in the papers from now on. Is that the same Cameron who wanted to bomb Syria about a year or so ago (if my memory serves me right) to aid Al quaeeda in Iraq (who became ISIS) to depose the president?
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Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 17 Nov 15 8.41pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 17 Nov 2015 6.41pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 17 Nov 2015 6.21pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 17 Nov 2015 2.01pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 17 Nov 2015 1.52pm
Haven't heard his latest comments, haven't seen a lot of UK news. Can someone put up a link? Like other posters have said, I think his lack of experience of the front benches has found him wanting. The Guardian Thanks Y Ddraig Goch.. Having read the article, it doesn't seem to me that he is saying a lot. For me, it's not that complicated. If you have suspected terrorists in a flat and there is "some evidence" that they are plotting an attack. Get any bystanders out of the way and do what you can to arrest them, if you can. If they are alive then you can question them to find out more details of any networks or further plots, that could save lives. If you have some guy in a bar, holding hostages and you get a clear shot, take it as soon as you can and you shoot to kill.
"...any armed action by the police has to be proportionate to the threat” Covers all of the above. However, in addition, there are going to be times when as in the case of the IRA suspects shot in Gibraltar (I think it was), the authorities have to make a decision as to whether, they can justify what they do, when they are held to account. I don't think you need to negotiate in every circumstance. The immediate threat to the public needs to be negated first and everything else is secondary. In regards to the now Jilted John, we have a legal process in this country and if questions need to be asked, ask them.
The killing of Alan Henning in particular, just over a year ago, still upsets me to this day. I regards to what Cameron has said about "shoot to kill" I don't think it makes a lot of difference. He has to say something and the law is still the same. Post Paris, a lot of these stories will be in the papers from now on. Is that the same Cameron who wanted to bomb Syria about a year or so ago (if my memory serves me right) to aid Al quaeeda in Iraq (who became ISIS) to depose the president? Al Qaeda and ISIL are two very different organisations. IF we had bombed Syria who knows what the world would look like now? (Personally I don't think it would be much different but we don't know that) Yesterday when I first heard that Coebyn had said what he did I assumed the press were s*** stirring. Having actually listened to hi, they clearly were not. Shoot to Kill in reality is a non argument for all the reasons I've mentioned before. Should we try and stop a scenario where a police officer or soldier has to make that split second decision? Of course but once that decision has been made then that's it.
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| Mr Palaceman 17 Nov 15 8.46pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 17 Nov 2015 6.41pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 17 Nov 2015 6.21pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 17 Nov 2015 2.01pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 17 Nov 2015 1.52pm
Haven't heard his latest comments, haven't seen a lot of UK news. Can someone put up a link? Like other posters have said, I think his lack of experience of the front benches has found him wanting. The Guardian Thanks Y Ddraig Goch.. Having read the article, it doesn't seem to me that he is saying a lot. For me, it's not that complicated. If you have suspected terrorists in a flat and there is "some evidence" that they are plotting an attack. Get any bystanders out of the way and do what you can to arrest them, if you can. If they are alive then you can question them to find out more details of any networks or further plots, that could save lives. If you have some guy in a bar, holding hostages and you get a clear shot, take it as soon as you can and you shoot to kill.
"...any armed action by the police has to be proportionate to the threat” Covers all of the above. However, in addition, there are going to be times when as in the case of the IRA suspects shot in Gibraltar (I think it was), the authorities have to make a decision as to whether, they can justify what they do, when they are held to account. I don't think you need to negotiate in every circumstance. The immediate threat to the public needs to be negated first and everything else is secondary. In regards to the now Jilted John, we have a legal process in this country and if questions need to be asked, ask them. I don't think killing him has changed anything, someone else who we don't know about will carry out the atrocities but at least we know that these people are not out of reach from us. The killing of Alan Henning in particular, just over a year ago, still upsets me to this day. I regards to what Cameron has said about "shoot to kill" I don't think it makes a lot of difference. He has to say something and the law is still the same. Post Paris, a lot of these stories will be in the papers from now on. Is that the same Cameron who wanted to bomb Syria about a year or so ago (if my memory serves me right) to aid Al quaeeda in Iraq (who became ISIS) to depose the president?
I don't despise Corbyn as much as some but I'm not seeing much in the way of substance. Lots of damming reports, he's a very divisive figure. I do think people underestimate his pull. People are so fed up with the status quo and that may be a big factor in the next election. Especially amongst the young. It Just makes the next campaign a little more interesting but that's about it at the moment for me. I'm kinda sick if it all right now. I'm a big optimist but it's only going to get worse in the UK.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 18 Nov 15 2.09pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 17 Nov 2015 3.31pm
Jeremy Corbyn would authorise the lethal use of force against terrorists in Paris-style attacks if he became Prime Minister, HuffPostUK can reveal. In his report to Labour’s ruling National Executive Committee today, the Labour leader has made clear that he would approve ‘proportionate and strictly necessary force’ in response to attacks like that by ISIL killers at the Bataclan concert hall. But Mr Corbyn also stresses that the law must be upheld and that he believes that ‘shoot to kill’ policies are to be avoided, not least because of ‘recent’ incidents, believed to be a reference to the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes and Northern Ireland’s Troubles. But as part of his NEC report, he has clarified his position is in line with Labour policy. "As we have seen in the recent past, there are clear dangers to us all in any kind of shoot to kill policy,” he says. “And we must ensure that terrorist attacks are not used to undermine the very freedoms and legal protections we are determined to defend. "But of course I support the use of whatever proportionate and strictly necessary force is required to save life in response to attacks of the kind we saw in Paris".
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 18 Nov 15 2.14pm |
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Quote pefwin at 17 Nov 2015 1.48pm
Quote dannyh at 17 Nov 2015 1.34pm
Quote Alexi_the_Eagle at 17 Nov 2015 1.28pm
Labour are going nowhere with calamity Corbyn the clown and his namby pamby pacifist views in charge. He thinks talking to ISIS will solve everything, just like any typical p*ssy would say, The world isn't one big liberal arts college campus. He needs to wake up. Where's Harold Shipman when you need him. That is over the top. So what ?
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Nov 15 3.31pm |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 17 Nov 2015 8.41pm
Quote nickgusset at 17 Nov 2015 6.41pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 17 Nov 2015 6.21pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 17 Nov 2015 2.01pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 17 Nov 2015 1.52pm
Haven't heard his latest comments, haven't seen a lot of UK news. Can someone put up a link? Like other posters have said, I think his lack of experience of the front benches has found him wanting. The Guardian Thanks Y Ddraig Goch.. Having read the article, it doesn't seem to me that he is saying a lot. For me, it's not that complicated. If you have suspected terrorists in a flat and there is "some evidence" that they are plotting an attack. Get any bystanders out of the way and do what you can to arrest them, if you can. If they are alive then you can question them to find out more details of any networks or further plots, that could save lives. If you have some guy in a bar, holding hostages and you get a clear shot, take it as soon as you can and you shoot to kill.
"...any armed action by the police has to be proportionate to the threat” Covers all of the above. However, in addition, there are going to be times when as in the case of the IRA suspects shot in Gibraltar (I think it was), the authorities have to make a decision as to whether, they can justify what they do, when they are held to account. I don't think you need to negotiate in every circumstance. The immediate threat to the public needs to be negated first and everything else is secondary. In regards to the now Jilted John, we have a legal process in this country and if questions need to be asked, ask them.
The killing of Alan Henning in particular, just over a year ago, still upsets me to this day. I regards to what Cameron has said about "shoot to kill" I don't think it makes a lot of difference. He has to say something and the law is still the same. Post Paris, a lot of these stories will be in the papers from now on. Is that the same Cameron who wanted to bomb Syria about a year or so ago (if my memory serves me right) to aid Al quaeeda in Iraq (who became ISIS) to depose the president? Al Qaeda and ISIL are two very different organisations. IF we had bombed Syria who knows what the world would look like now? (Personally I don't think it would be much different but we don't know that) Yesterday when I first heard that Coebyn had said what he did I assumed the press were s*** stirring. Having actually listened to hi, they clearly were not. Shoot to Kill in reality is a non argument for all the reasons I've mentioned before. Should we try and stop a scenario where a police officer or soldier has to make that split second decision? Of course but once that decision has been made then that's it. Shoot to Kill policy in the UK generally means the police would operate without the need to justify reasonable force in relation to an operation or arrest of a subject, essentially it a 'green light to killing suspects'. UK Law is pretty clear that you can use lethal force in the protection of the self and of others, provided its reasonable to do so. Any policy that removes that 'reasonable' to do so aspect is a recipe for disaster. Every civilised country in the world would have allowed their police, armed forces and even citizens to use lethal force when faced with people armed with guns shooting people or reasonable acting like they intend to do so. People seem to forget that the police here have killed people who weren't even armed and done so legally. Al-Qaeda in Iraq and ISIL / IS and ISIS however are the same group (or rather Al-Qaeda in Iraq and the Sunni Insurgency were a fundermental feed into the basis of what would become IS).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Nov 15 3.31pm |
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Quote dannyh at 18 Nov 2015 2.14pm
Quote pefwin at 17 Nov 2015 1.48pm
Quote dannyh at 17 Nov 2015 1.34pm
Quote Alexi_the_Eagle at 17 Nov 2015 1.28pm
Labour are going nowhere with calamity Corbyn the clown and his namby pamby pacifist views in charge. He thinks talking to ISIS will solve everything, just like any typical p*ssy would say, The world isn't one big liberal arts college campus. He needs to wake up. Where's Harold Shipman when you need him. That is over the top. So what ? I think he might be a bit young for The Old Dear hunter.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Alert a moderator to this post |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 18 Nov 15 3.46pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Nov 2015 3.31pm
Quote dannyh at 18 Nov 2015 2.14pm
Quote pefwin at 17 Nov 2015 1.48pm
Quote dannyh at 17 Nov 2015 1.34pm
Quote Alexi_the_Eagle at 17 Nov 2015 1.28pm
Labour are going nowhere with calamity Corbyn the clown and his namby pamby pacifist views in charge. He thinks talking to ISIS will solve everything, just like any typical p*ssy would say, The world isn't one big liberal arts college campus. He needs to wake up. Where's Harold Shipman when you need him. That is over the top. So what ? I think he might be a bit young for The Old Dear hunter.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| Alert a moderator to this post |
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his looks,and constant demeanour of one who has solied himself would I'm sure, pass the Shippers test for being worthy of his "expertise"| johnno42000 18 Nov 15 4.15pm |
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Quote dannyh at 18 Nov 2015 3.46pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Nov 2015 3.31pm
Quote dannyh at 18 Nov 2015 2.14pm
Quote pefwin at 17 Nov 2015 1.48pm
Quote dannyh at 17 Nov 2015 1.34pm
Quote Alexi_the_Eagle at 17 Nov 2015 1.28pm
Labour are going nowhere with calamity Corbyn the clown and his namby pamby pacifist views in charge. He thinks talking to ISIS will solve everything, just like any typical p*ssy would say, The world isn't one big liberal arts college campus. He needs to wake up. Where's Harold Shipman when you need him. That is over the top. So what ? I think he might be a bit young for The Old Dear hunter.
'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more' |
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| paperhat croydon 18 Nov 15 4.31pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 17 Nov 2015 4.04pm
Quote jason7 at 17 Nov 2015 3.46pm
So if some fanatical idiot came at him with a machete,he wouldn't expect his security team to stop him,he would instead shout "halt"and engage in conversation with him without excessive measures being used?
probably wants to have them sent to bed with a smacked bum and no dinner. That'll learn em
Clinton is Clinton. I have known him for a long time, I know his mother... Simon Jordan |
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