Well since any discussion at all on their place in a wider society is deemed as blaming 'evil white men', we instead have to say whatever it is, is entirely their own fault. Case closed then.

Edited by bilbo (11 Nov 2015 7.39pm)

I certainly agree with that, but at the same time we don't get to deny or silence a person's experience as that may well play a part in their behaviour. That's why talking on peoples behalf in telling them that it's ridiclous if they feel alientated and the like isn't helpful. I wouldn't ask a random person on the street what Hrolf The Ganger's experience of life is and how he feels. I would ask him.

I neither agree with people becoming victims, or with victimising groups of people. Ultimately if you stab someone for instance it's all on you and the rule of law kicks in. Whatever the cause and whatever violence surrounds you, you did it and you pay the price.

Edited by bilbo (11 Nov 2015 9.03pm)

I didn't say it was 'the problem'. Our actual words suffice. I said "People feeling alientated from the mainstream likely contributes too" because that is sometimes what communities tell us. You are saying that peoples experience of their own lives are invalid if you deem it to be "ridiculous" with no input from those whose lives we're talking about. You'd previously said "I don't think any one should reasonably be feeling left out."

Great, these are your views of other peoples life experiences. That's fine. My view is that someones view of their own life is important too and that you don't get to speak for their experience. Again I don't ask random black people how Ganger should feel about life. I ask you, and you're very clear in your focus on minorities.

Edited by bilbo (11 Nov 2015 9.44pm)