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jamiemartin721 Reading 26 Oct 15 12.56pm | |
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Quote johnfirewall at 26 Oct 2015 12.21pm
There's a difference between decriminalisation and having legitimate authorised services. You can already pay an eastern European gangster for sex with a prostitute thus funding the trafficking of more girls, and other organised crime without getting nicked. Maybe the government should run the railways and knocking shops. I feel that social services should run knocking shops, with the revenue raised going back into the local social services dept, whilst local NHS should be the source of 'recreational' drugs, with the money going back into the local NHS services. Keep the gangsters out, focus the police on 'protecting the legal trade', control the price, supply and quality control, and whilst you won't solve the problems, you'll stem the corruption and compounding of the problem (its arguably a lot better to treat addiction with rehab and social services, than to simply keep criminalizing people for possession, whilst providing them with cheap, high quality drugs at a reasonable price). A junkie who can afford their smack is much less of a problem to everyone else, than one who can't. Plus, if they do then get clean, its unlikely that they'll have a string of criminal convictions related to financing their habit holding them back from employment.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 26 Oct 15 12.58pm | |
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Similarly with addicts funding themselves through prostitution, what does it say about us as a society that we would rather they sold sexual services to strangers on the street, rather than just give them diamorphine (which can be produced at profit for the NHS at 1/35th of the street price of heroin)?
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 26 Oct 15 1.24pm | |
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In theory making it legal sounds aces, however in this country I fear it would just lead to more poor young immigrant women from eastern Europe being brutalised and sold into sex slavery. Sort that problem first, then make it legal and have an authority that can shut them down if standards are not met. To make it legal now would be sheer lunacey.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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johnfirewall 26 Oct 15 1.53pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Oct 2015 12.58pm
Similarly with addicts funding themselves through prostitution, what does it say about us as a society that we would rather they sold sexual services to strangers on the street, rather than just give them diamorphine (which can be produced at profit for the NHS at 1/35th of the street price of heroin)?
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becky over the moon 26 Oct 15 8.50pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Oct 2015 12.58pm
Similarly with addicts funding themselves through prostitution, what does it say about us as a society that we would rather they sold sexual services to strangers on the street, rather than just give them diamorphine (which can be produced at profit for the NHS at 1/35th of the street price of heroin)?
Basically, that would constitute legalised euthanasia by the State.......
A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers |
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Stirlingsays 27 Oct 15 1.08am | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Oct 2015 12.56pm
I feel that social services should run knocking shops, with the revenue raised going back into the local social services dept, whilst local NHS should be the source of 'recreational' drugs, with the money going back into the local NHS services. Keep the gangsters out, focus the police on 'protecting the legal trade', control the price, supply and quality control, and whilst you won't solve the problems, you'll stem the corruption and compounding of the problem (its arguably a lot better to treat addiction with rehab and social services, than to simply keep criminalizing people for possession, whilst providing them with cheap, high quality drugs at a reasonable price). A junkie who can afford their smack is much less of a problem to everyone else, than one who can't. Plus, if they do then get clean, its unlikely that they'll have a string of criminal convictions related to financing their habit holding them back from employment. The government as an ethical pimp I don't really have a problem with. The result would be that more people have sex with brass. Apart from the affect it might have on their individual relationships, which isn't my business I don't have a problem with the sex trade growing.....Where sex workers are properly protected and paid and appropriately taxed. The government as an ethical drugs dealer does have extra downsides for me. I do agree with you on the positive aspects on protecting users and limiting the damage caused by cut product. However, the outcome.....as with protecting sex workers would be an increase in the trade. As a parent this would worry me. Very few people get addicted to banging brass....Whereas very many get addicted to hard drugs. I could live with drugs legalisation.....But as with anyone regularly using prostitutes it's generally not something positive we would recommend in an individual's life. As with cigarettes and alcohol the emphasis should be on not starting and if using to stop.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 27 Oct 15 1.17am | |
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Quote dannyh at 26 Oct 2015 1.24pm
In theory making it legal sounds aces, however in this country I fear it would just lead to more poor young immigrant women from eastern Europe being brutalised and sold into sex slavery. Sort that problem first, then make it legal and have an authority that can shut them down if standards are not met. To make it legal now would be sheer lunacey. It would lead to less I think. Just like the black market for anything the state can't stop a black market for drugs or brass still existing.....All it can do is lower the profitability of having one. With a legal option to compete with the black market would have to lower its prices to stay attractive. That lowers the risk/reward element for criminal gangs. The problem still exists but the numbers affected negatively are fewer. The gangs have a legal competition. I agree with the state aggressively attacking sexual exploitation and slavery.....That's independent of a change in the law for the sex trade designed to protect them.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Oct 15 9.29am | |
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Quote dannyh at 26 Oct 2015 1.24pm
In theory making it legal sounds aces, however in this country I fear it would just lead to more poor young immigrant women from eastern Europe being brutalised and sold into sex slavery. Sort that problem first, then make it legal and have an authority that can shut them down if standards are not met. To make it legal now would be sheer lunacey. You could be right, however by freeing resources from policing and putting licensing into the hands of local authorities, such as social services, you then have a basis on which to dedicate resources against illegal brothels. Initially the revenue raised from legalization should be used to 'protect the state monopoly' and focus on eliminating brothels that are not registered using freed up resources and revenue generated. I don't think you'll ever be able to fully eliminate the predatory trade of sex trafficking, not entirely, but by offering a legal alternative, you can reduce its profitability, whilst focusing resources on those that supply and run such operations. At present they seem to occupy a blind spot in society (local police aren't really interested in crimes against prostitutes let alone illegal migrants).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Oct 15 9.44am | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 27 Oct 2015 1.17am
Quote dannyh at 26 Oct 2015 1.24pm
In theory making it legal sounds aces, however in this country I fear it would just lead to more poor young immigrant women from eastern Europe being brutalised and sold into sex slavery. Sort that problem first, then make it legal and have an authority that can shut them down if standards are not met. To make it legal now would be sheer lunacey. It would lead to less I think. Just like the black market for anything the state can't stop a black market for drugs or brass still existing.....All it can do is lower the profitability of having one. With a legal option to compete with the black market would have to lower its prices to stay attractive. That lowers the risk/reward element for criminal gangs. The problem still exists but the numbers affected negatively are fewer. The gangs have a legal competition. I agree with the state aggressively attacking sexual exploitation and slavery.....That's independent of a change in the law for the sex trade designed to protect them. The problem of an illegal drug trade though is that it doesn't prevent people becoming drug addicts, or the availability of drugs either (which are fairly easy to get a hold of). It just creates an artificially high price for drugs that creates a lot of crime as addicts need to commit. Things like cocaine and heroin are actually very cheap to produce (Cocaine pure is about £1 per gram without a real laboratory, diamorphine, heroin probably around a fiver, for a gram of pure heroin). Crack is actually even cheaper than cocaine to produce). The street price of cocaine, is around £50 a gram for 20-30% cocaine hydrochloride and around the same for heroin of about the same quality. Amphetamines are ridiculously cheap to produce (as in the equivilent of 20 grams of street grade speed, is produced in a lab for pennies. These three represent the big problem drugs of abuse in the UK (although methadrone use is growing now its illegal). The fact is that an addict committing crime to maintain a gram a day heroin habit, is going to need to generate around 200 worth of crime to feed that habit. Where as with a legal source, allowing for purity, the need to find around a fiver a day (which means even legal work could support many habits). Plus you have the added bonus, that no one is really going to build up the kind of habits that are unsustainable because something like 2g of pure heroin, at say a tenner, would sustain even the most hardened tolerant smack head for several days (or put in another way, doing that much diamorphine would prove fatal to humans in that time span). Sounds cold, but that's a basic fact, even the most heroin tolerant person, is going to die if they're doing two grams of pure heroin in a couple of days.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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