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madcap_v2 SE25 / Ibiza 03 Jan 24 11.02am
Originally posted by silvertop For so long as I have been no this site a thread starts as to who we get rid of and some say the lot/most. This club needs all 7 you want to ditch, regardless of their ability. We cannot afford to secure any more new players than, say, 3. So you advocate depleting an already threadbare squad by 4. Difficult choices... I'm suggesting to get rid of the above on the proviso that they will be replaced. The only way we progress is replacing the fringe players/players not good enough to start. If we can't replace them, begrudgingly, keep them. La la la your mum
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madcap_v2

SE25 / Ibiza 03 Jan 24 11.02am

Originally posted by silvertop

For so long as I have been no this site a thread starts as to who we get rid of and some say the lot/most. This club needs all 7 you want to ditch, regardless of their ability. We cannot afford to secure any more new players than, say, 3. So you advocate depleting an already threadbare squad by 4.

Difficult choices...

I'm suggesting to get rid of the above on the proviso that they will be replaced. The only way we progress is replacing the fringe players/players not good enough to start. If we can't replace them, begrudgingly, keep them.

La la la your mum

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TheBigToePunt 03 Jan 24 11.02am
Originally posted by palace99 It's not necessary about improving the side, i.e the first XI, it's whether they can take a squad position. What is the point paying Jairo over £50k a week to play a couple of times a season and a few sub appearances. Ozoh can clearly fill that void. Same with say Tomkins. He never plays and his injury record is shocking. Maybe Kofi Balmer could do likewise. Hughes for me is a dilemma. He is 28 and should be at his peak. However, he is so slow games are passing him by. Currently with Doucoure injured he should be a shoe in alongside Lerma. Yet Roy is picking a CB Richards in his position, despite his limited passing ability. So what is the point of renewing someone who doesn't even play when there are injuries in his position? In terms of replacements. Well a few of the youngsters can take squad places, not necessarily starter positions, and there are bargains out there. Look at Barkley at Luton. On half of what Hughes is on and playing week in week out. Similarly, if we say bought a LW then Ayew could become a squad player next season rather than a starter every week That was what I was trying to say - the first task for Ozoh or Boetang (or whoever) is to become a squad player, i.e. to take the place of a Schlupp or a Riedewald. If they can't even do that then they will never develop into first-choice players who earn or save us big transfer fees (like AWB or Mitchell) and certainly not into players who will improve our team, which is the ultimate ambition (albeit far more difficult to achieve). I would agree with you that Reidewald serves little obvious purpose at Palace now. You or I could sit on the bench and never play for all the difference it makes, but of course, there are times when he does play. He is at least at a certain standard. I am not sure that Ozoh or Boetang are at that standard. We would not miss Reidewald but that doesn't mean our squad is anything other than weaker if he is replaced by a youth team player who isn't up to the task. As per an earlier post, it would of course be great if one of the youth lads was good enough to at least be that bench-warmer who plays 10 sub games a year, but if they aren't then keeping someone who is makes sense, even if it is a very limited role that he plays.
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TheBigToePunt

03 Jan 24 11.02am

Originally posted by palace99

It's not necessary about improving the side, i.e the first XI, it's whether they can take a squad position.

What is the point paying Jairo over £50k a week to play a couple of times a season and a few sub appearances. Ozoh can clearly fill that void. Same with say Tomkins. He never plays and his injury record is shocking. Maybe Kofi Balmer could do likewise.

Hughes for me is a dilemma. He is 28 and should be at his peak. However, he is so slow games are passing him by. Currently with Doucoure injured he should be a shoe in alongside Lerma. Yet Roy is picking a CB Richards in his position, despite his limited passing ability. So what is the point of renewing someone who doesn't even play when there are injuries in his position?

In terms of replacements. Well a few of the youngsters can take squad places, not necessarily starter positions, and there are bargains out there.
Look at Barkley at Luton. On half of what Hughes is on and playing week in week out.
Similarly, if we say bought a LW then Ayew could become a squad player next season rather than a starter every week

That was what I was trying to say - the first task for Ozoh or Boetang (or whoever) is to become a squad player, i.e. to take the place of a Schlupp or a Riedewald. If they can't even do that then they will never develop into first-choice players who earn or save us big transfer fees (like AWB or Mitchell) and certainly not into players who will improve our team, which is the ultimate ambition (albeit far more difficult to achieve).

I would agree with you that Reidewald serves little obvious purpose at Palace now. You or I could sit on the bench and never play for all the difference it makes, but of course, there are times when he does play. He is at least at a certain standard. I am not sure that Ozoh or Boetang are at that standard. We would not miss Reidewald but that doesn't mean our squad is anything other than weaker if he is replaced by a youth team player who isn't up to the task.

As per an earlier post, it would of course be great if one of the youth lads was good enough to at least be that bench-warmer who plays 10 sub games a year, but if they aren't then keeping someone who is makes sense, even if it is a very limited role that he plays.

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MrRobbo Purley 03 Jan 24 3.32pm
Originally posted by TheBigToePunt That was what I was trying to say - the first task for Ozoh or Boetang (or whoever) is to become a squad player, i.e. to take the place of a Schlupp or a Riedewald. If they can't even do that then they will never develop into first-choice players who earn or save us big transfer fees (like AWB or Mitchell) and certainly not into players who will improve our team, which is the ultimate ambition (albeit far more difficult to achieve). I would agree with you that Reidewald serves little obvious purpose at Palace now. You or I could sit on the bench and never play for all the difference it makes, but of course, there are times when he does play. He is at least at a certain standard. I am not sure that Ozoh or Boetang are at that standard. We would not miss Reidewald but that doesn't mean our squad is anything other than weaker if he is replaced by a youth team player who isn't up to the task. As per an earlier post, it would of course be great if one of the youth lads was good enough to at least be that bench-warmer who plays 10 sub games a year, but if they aren't then keeping someone who is makes sense, even if it is a very limited role that he plays. IMO Ozoh offers no less than Jairo. And if I was DF/SP that 100% has to be the plan, to not renew Jairo and Ozoh to officially take that role. Value for money is a very good lens to approach some of these decisions. As you mentioned Jairo and Tomkins do very little to justify their combined 4m a year. I'd genuinely be staggered if either are renewed. We of course don't want to lose all the experience from the squad. But we also don't want to have a squad full of deadweight. That not only cost a lot, but also make the path to the first team a bit harder for some of hte good kids.
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MrRobbo

Purley 03 Jan 24 3.32pm

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

IMO Ozoh offers no less than Jairo. And if I was DF/SP that 100% has to be the plan, to not renew Jairo and Ozoh to officially take that role.

Value for money is a very good lens to approach some of these decisions. As you mentioned Jairo and Tomkins do very little to justify their combined 4m a year. I'd genuinely be staggered if either are renewed.

We of course don't want to lose all the experience from the squad. But we also don't want to have a squad full of deadweight. That not only cost a lot, but also make the path to the first team a bit harder for some of hte good kids.

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derfes upper norwood 03 Jan 24 3.44pm
Originally posted by Canterbury Palace It's January 1st which means I am hungover but also that our players with expiring contracts could technically sign pre-contract agreements with clubs abroad. Here is our list of players with expiring contracts along with their reported current weekly wages (according to spotrac.com)... Will Hughes (£35,000) Jeffrey Schlupp (£50,000) Jairo Riedewald (£55,000) Nathaniel Clyne (£80,000) Joel Ward (£35,000) Nathan Ferguson (£25,000) James Tomkins (£50,000) Remi Matthews (£5,385) So, who would you keep and get rid of? For me Will Hughes, Jeffrey Schlupp (on reduced terms) and Joel Ward should stay. All as squad players. We should then bring in a new first choice right back. Surely we can't continue paying Clyne 80k, Riedewald, 55k and Tomkins 50k at this point. Ferguson is patently never going to recover so, brutal as it might be, he needs to go too. i think a fair view in considering who to keep is considering what football we play and therefore which reserve side we need. clyne is currently our rightback with ward as a reserve. so keep both for now ( thought brentford's first goal would really indicate we need a better player in that slot) Ferguson is too injury prone, i'd might keep for £500 a week but otherwise release. Tomkins is our replacement centre back package, but like ward really getting on in years, i'd release him. Jairo is a second DM in a second XI, if we are going to play 2 DM's as we have recently i'd keep him but probably at a reduced wage level to reflect the change in squad , otherwise release him or sell. Schlupp probably best suits us as a replacement left back for Mitchell going forward accordingly i'd keep on a 1 year contract. Remi "i was blind" Matthews should probably be got rid of for a keeper who can actually see and therefore save the ball. Edited by derfes (03 Jan 2024 3.45pm) Edited by derfes (03 Jan 2024 5.21pm)
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derfes

upper norwood 03 Jan 24 3.44pm

Originally posted by Canterbury Palace

It's January 1st which means I am hungover but also that our players with expiring contracts could technically sign pre-contract agreements with clubs abroad. Here is our list of players with expiring contracts along with their reported current weekly wages (according to spotrac.com)...

Will Hughes (£35,000)
Jeffrey Schlupp (£50,000)
Jairo Riedewald (£55,000)
Nathaniel Clyne (£80,000)
Joel Ward (£35,000)
Nathan Ferguson (£25,000)
James Tomkins (£50,000)
Remi Matthews (£5,385)

So, who would you keep and get rid of?

For me Will Hughes, Jeffrey Schlupp (on reduced terms) and Joel Ward should stay. All as squad players. We should then bring in a new first choice right back. Surely we can't continue paying Clyne 80k, Riedewald, 55k and Tomkins 50k at this point. Ferguson is patently never going to recover so, brutal as it might be, he needs to go too.

i think a fair view in considering who to keep is considering what football we play and therefore which reserve side we need.
clyne is currently our rightback with ward as a reserve. so keep both for now ( thought brentford's first goal would really indicate we need a better player in that slot)
Ferguson is too injury prone, i'd might keep for £500 a week but otherwise release.
Tomkins is our replacement centre back package, but like ward really getting on in years, i'd release him.
Jairo is a second DM in a second XI, if we are going to play 2 DM's as we have recently i'd keep him but probably at a reduced wage level to reflect the change in squad , otherwise release him or sell.

Schlupp probably best suits us as a replacement left back for Mitchell going forward accordingly i'd keep on a 1 year contract.

Remi "i was blind" Matthews should probably be got rid of for a keeper who can actually see and therefore save the ball.

Edited by derfes (03 Jan 2024 3.45pm)

Edited by derfes (03 Jan 2024 5.21pm)

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Lanzo-Ad Online Lanzarote 03 Jan 24 3.44pm
Originally posted by ambrose7 You're agreeing with me. Our recent windows don't demonstrate success in snapping up the most popular players that are available on frees at the rate needed to enable us to let all of this group be released. Therefore, we end up a) spending the transfer budget on lots of average players, b) having a smaller squad, c) renewing t his group, d) having a far better window than we have for a long time. (Note that neither of these players are currently available on frees - they're under contract at English clubs so we can't talk to them) I think you maybe a bit naive, Bogle has the same agent as Andersen, and Johnson has the same agent as Eze, i have always liked Bogle since he has at Derby, and Johnson is way better than what we have, 2 for the price of 0 “That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn
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Lanzo-Ad Online

Lanzarote 03 Jan 24 3.44pm

Originally posted by ambrose7

You're agreeing with me. Our recent windows don't demonstrate success in snapping up the most popular players that are available on frees at the rate needed to enable us to let all of this group be released. Therefore, we end up a) spending the transfer budget on lots of average players, b) having a smaller squad, c) renewing t his group, d) having a far better window than we have for a long time.

(Note that neither of these players are currently available on frees - they're under contract at English clubs so we can't talk to them)

I think you maybe a bit naive, Bogle has the same agent as Andersen, and Johnson has the same agent as Eze, i have always liked Bogle since he has at Derby, and Johnson is way better than what we have, 2 for the price of 0

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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TheBigToePunt 03 Jan 24 4.16pm
Originally posted by MrRobbo IMO Ozoh offers no less than Jairo. And if I was DF/SP that 100% has to be the plan, to not renew Jairo and Ozoh to officially take that role. Value for money is a very good lens to approach some of these decisions. As you mentioned Jairo and Tomkins do very little to justify their combined 4m a year. I'd genuinely be staggered if either are renewed. We of course don't want to lose all the experience from the squad. But we also don't want to have a squad full of deadweight. That not only cost a lot, but also make the path to the first team a bit harder for some of hte good kids. I hope you are right about Ozoh / Reidewald, and would not disagree with you that money, and value for it, matters. At the same time, the money CPFC spends on Tomkins, Reidewald etc is for an insurance policy. If Andersen and Geuhi get injured, we only have Holding and Richards. Right now, if one or other first-choice centre-back got injured, we would need Tomkins to play. Like any insurance policy, its a waste of money right up until you need to use it.
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TheBigToePunt

03 Jan 24 4.16pm

Originally posted by MrRobbo

IMO Ozoh offers no less than Jairo. And if I was DF/SP that 100% has to be the plan, to not renew Jairo and Ozoh to officially take that role.

I hope you are right about Ozoh / Reidewald, and would not disagree with you that money, and value for it, matters.

At the same time, the money CPFC spends on Tomkins, Reidewald etc is for an insurance policy. If Andersen and Geuhi get injured, we only have Holding and Richards. Right now, if one or other first-choice centre-back got injured, we would need Tomkins to play.

Like any insurance policy, its a waste of money right up until you need to use it.

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Crystal_Clear Belfast 03 Jan 24 4.24pm
Originally posted by Canterbury Palace It's January 1st which means I am hungover but also that our players with expiring contracts could technically sign pre-contract agreements with clubs abroad. Here is our list of players with expiring contracts along with their reported current weekly wages (according to spotrac.com)... Will Hughes (£35,000) - KEEP Jeffrey Schlupp (£50,000) - KEEP Jairo Riedewald (£55,000) - RELEASE (replacement Ozoh if classifying as Midfield) Nathaniel Clyne (£80,000) - KEEP (reduced terms - not worth 80k pw) Joel Ward (£35,000) - RELEASE (replacement new RB) Nathan Ferguson (£25,000) - RELEASE (replacement Imray) James Tomkins (£50,000) - RELEASE (replacement Holding -if ever fit) Remi Matthews (£5,385) - RELEASE (replacement Whitworth) So, who would you keep and get rid of? For me Will Hughes, Jeffrey Schlupp (on reduced terms) and Joel Ward should stay. All as squad players. We should then bring in a new first choice right back. Surely we can't continue paying Clyne 80k, Riedewald, 55k and Tomkins 50k at this point. Ferguson is patently never going to recover so, brutal as it might be, he needs to go too. Given the comments above the only outlay would be for a new RB, which the club has already spoken about anyway. Could be saving £150K wages per week there. Edited by Crystal_Clear (03 Jan 2024 4.24pm)
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Crystal_Clear

Belfast 03 Jan 24 4.24pm

Originally posted by Canterbury Palace

Will Hughes (£35,000) - KEEP
Jeffrey Schlupp (£50,000) - KEEP
Jairo Riedewald (£55,000) - RELEASE (replacement Ozoh if classifying as Midfield)
Nathaniel Clyne (£80,000) - KEEP (reduced terms - not worth 80k pw)
Joel Ward (£35,000) - RELEASE (replacement new RB)
Nathan Ferguson (£25,000) - RELEASE (replacement Imray)
James Tomkins (£50,000) - RELEASE (replacement Holding -if ever fit)
Remi Matthews (£5,385) - RELEASE (replacement Whitworth)

So, who would you keep and get rid of?

Given the comments above the only outlay would be for a new RB, which the club has already spoken about anyway. Could be saving £150K wages per week there.

Edited by Crystal_Clear (03 Jan 2024 4.24pm)

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Elpis In a pub 04 Jan 24 11.21am
Schulpp is the only player on that list I would want to offer another contract to . The rest need replacing with either promotions from the youth squads or purchase of younger and better alternatives as alluded to by Canterbury Palace And we still need a striker
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Elpis

In a pub 04 Jan 24 11.21am

Schulpp is the only player on that list I would want to offer another contract to .
The rest need replacing with either promotions from the youth squads or purchase of younger and better alternatives as alluded to by Canterbury Palace

And we still need a striker

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Canterbury Palace Whitstable 04 Jan 24 12.02pm
Originally posted by derfes i think a fair view in considering who to keep is considering what football we play and therefore which reserve side we need. clyne is currently our rightback with ward as a reserve. so keep both for now ( thought brentford's first goal would really indicate we need a better player in that slot) Ferguson is too injury prone, i'd might keep for £500 a week but otherwise release. Tomkins is our replacement centre back package, but like ward really getting on in years, i'd release him. Jairo is a second DM in a second XI, if we are going to play 2 DM's as we have recently i'd keep him but probably at a reduced wage level to reflect the change in squad , otherwise release him or sell. Schlupp probably best suits us as a replacement left back for Mitchell going forward accordingly i'd keep on a 1 year contract. Remi "i was blind" Matthews should probably be got rid of for a keeper who can actually see and therefore save the ball. Edited by derfes (03 Jan 2024 3.45pm) Edited by derfes (03 Jan 2024 5.21pm) Yep. I mean I think we should only keep one of them and whoever it is needs to be reserve. I picked Ward because the website that I took the wages from said he is earning 50k less a week. Others on the thread have said that is wrong and, if so, I think Clyne is the better player but, either way, I don't want to see them starting next season. I'd love to get AWB back but probably unrealistic and United have an option to extend his deal by a year. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...
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Canterbury Palace

Whitstable 04 Jan 24 12.02pm

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Originally posted by derfes

i think a fair view in considering who to keep is considering what football we play and therefore which reserve side we need.
clyne is currently our rightback with ward as a reserve. so keep both for now ( thought brentford's first goal would really indicate we need a better player in that slot)
Ferguson is too injury prone, i'd might keep for £500 a week but otherwise release.
Tomkins is our replacement centre back package, but like ward really getting on in years, i'd release him.
Jairo is a second DM in a second XI, if we are going to play 2 DM's as we have recently i'd keep him but probably at a reduced wage level to reflect the change in squad , otherwise release him or sell.

Schlupp probably best suits us as a replacement left back for Mitchell going forward accordingly i'd keep on a 1 year contract.

Remi "i was blind" Matthews should probably be got rid of for a keeper who can actually see and therefore save the ball.

Edited by derfes (03 Jan 2024 3.45pm)

Edited by derfes (03 Jan 2024 5.21pm)

Yep. I mean I think we should only keep one of them and whoever it is needs to be reserve. I picked Ward because the website that I took the wages from said he is earning 50k less a week. Others on the thread have said that is wrong and, if so, I think Clyne is the better player but, either way, I don't want to see them starting next season.

I'd love to get AWB back but probably unrealistic and United have an option to extend his deal by a year.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

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