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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Mar 23 2.09pm
Originally posted by The groover I've just done the stats on the new 9 team relegation group. Games V each other. It's quite interesting in that we are top having played the least games. Backs up the fact that we have played nearly all of the top teams already and that this mini league will be what matters. ............P........Pts....Pts/game Palace......8.........16.......2 Leicester...10........16.......1.6 Wolves......11........16.......1.45 Everton.....12........15.......1.25 Forest......12........15.......1.25 Bourne......10........14.......1.4 West ham....11........14.......1.27 Leeds.......10........12.......1.2 South.......12........11.......0.92 It is a double edge sword for between teams in this mini league. A win and its all smiles. A draw if you are above the team you play again smiles not so if you are the team below. A defeat and its a very sad face. Southampton, Everton and forest only have 4 mini league games to play whilst we have 8. 5 of our mini league games are at home. We could play as bad as Leeds have and still get the required points. Very interesting and useful stats and for this reason I doff my hat in reverence.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Mar 23 2.09pm

Originally posted by The groover

I've just done the stats on the new 9 team relegation group. Games V each other. It's quite interesting in that we are top having played the least games. Backs up the fact that we have played nearly all of the top teams already and that this mini league will be what matters.

............P........Pts....Pts/game
Palace......8.........16.......2
Leicester...10........16.......1.6
Wolves......11........16.......1.45
Everton.....12........15.......1.25
Forest......12........15.......1.25
Bourne......10........14.......1.4
West ham....11........14.......1.27
Leeds.......10........12.......1.2
South.......12........11.......0.92

It is a double edge sword for between teams in this mini league. A win and its all smiles. A draw if you are above the team you play again smiles not so if you are the team below. A defeat and its a very sad face.

Southampton, Everton and forest only have 4 mini league games to play whilst we have 8.

5 of our mini league games are at home. We could play as bad as Leeds have and still get the required points.

Very interesting and useful stats and for this reason I doff my hat in reverence.

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Lanzo-Ad Lanzarote 07 Mar 23 2.16pm
Originally posted by PatrickA We lack identity as a team and it’s unclear what we are trying to achieve. Under Pulis we were very competitive , trying to win individual battles around the field, keeping it tight and looking to threaten on set pieces. Under Allardyce we were direct, trying to hit Benteke as quickly as possible and getting Zaha and Townsend close to him to threaten the opposition. Under Hodgson we blocked the spaces, defended deep and looked to counter attack when opportunities presented themselves. In each case, whether you agreed with the tactics or not, you could understand the objectives and purpose. I’m not clear what we are trying to achieve presently and suggest the team lack a clear identity. There is vague talk about playing ‘between the lines’ and we often retain possession, but to my eyes with often little purpose. We are providing little threat to the opposition so our approach is clearly ineffective,at least in an attacking sense. We no longer have the pace in the team to offer a viable counterattacking threat and we longer have the competitive warrior spirit of the past. With this in mind I would question whether the current squad has either the identity or the stomach for a relegation battle. My hope is that we’ll somehow muster the three or so wins and a few draws to escape, but if we do fall into the bottom 3 in the next few weeks I can’t help question if we would have the fight to climb out. Very nicely summed up “That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn
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Lanzo-Ad

Lanzarote 07 Mar 23 2.16pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

We lack identity as a team and it’s unclear what we are trying to achieve.
Under Pulis we were very competitive , trying to win individual battles around the field, keeping it tight and looking to threaten on set pieces.
Under Allardyce we were direct, trying to hit Benteke as quickly as possible and getting Zaha and Townsend close to him to threaten the opposition.
Under Hodgson we blocked the spaces, defended deep and looked to counter attack when opportunities presented themselves.

In each case, whether you agreed with the tactics or not, you could understand the objectives and purpose.

I’m not clear what we are trying to achieve presently and suggest the team lack a clear identity.
There is vague talk about playing ‘between the lines’ and we often retain possession, but to my eyes with often little purpose.
We are providing little threat to the opposition so our approach is clearly ineffective,at least in an attacking sense.
We no longer have the pace in the team to offer a viable counterattacking threat and we longer have the competitive warrior spirit of the past.
With this in mind I would question whether the current squad has either the identity or the stomach for a relegation battle.
My hope is that we’ll somehow muster the three or so wins and a few draws to escape, but if we do fall into the bottom 3 in the next few weeks I can’t help question if we would have the fight to climb out.

Very nicely summed up

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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Lanzo-Ad Lanzarote 07 Mar 23 2.17pm
Originally posted by The groover I've just done the stats on the new 9 team relegation group. Games V each other. It's quite interesting in that we are top having played the least games. Backs up the fact that we have played nearly all of the top teams already and that this mini league will be what matters. ............P........Pts....Pts/game Palace......8.........16.......2 Leicester...10........16.......1.6 Wolves......11........16.......1.45 Everton.....12........15.......1.25 Forest......12........15.......1.25 Bourne......10........14.......1.4 West ham....11........14.......1.27 Leeds.......10........12.......1.2 South.......12........11.......0.92 It is a double edge sword for between teams in this mini league. A win and its all smiles. A draw if you are above the team you play again smiles not so if you are the team below. A defeat and its a very sad face. Southampton, Everton and forest only have 4 mini league games to play whilst we have 8. 5 of our mini league games are at home. We could play as bad as Leeds have and still get the required points. Yes, And if my Auntie had B***s, etc. “That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn
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Lanzo-Ad

Lanzarote 07 Mar 23 2.17pm

Originally posted by The groover

Southampton, Everton and forest only have 4 mini league games to play whilst we have 8.

5 of our mini league games are at home. We could play as bad as Leeds have and still get the required points.

Yes, And if my Auntie had B***s, etc.

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CrazyBadger Ware 07 Mar 23 2.23pm
Originally posted by PatrickA We lack identity as a team and it’s unclear what we are trying to achieve. Under Pulis we were very competitive , trying to win individual battles around the field, keeping it tight and looking to threaten on set pieces. Under Allardyce we were direct, trying to hit Benteke as quickly as possible and getting Zaha and Townsend close to him to threaten the opposition. Under Hodgson we blocked the spaces, defended deep and looked to counter attack when opportunities presented themselves. In each case, whether you agreed with the tactics or not, you could understand the objectives and purpose. I’m not clear what we are trying to achieve presently and suggest the team lack a clear identity. There is vague talk about playing ‘between the lines’ and we often retain possession, but to my eyes with often little purpose. We are providing little threat to the opposition so our approach is clearly ineffective,at least in an attacking sense. We no longer have the pace in the team to offer a viable counterattacking threat and we longer have the competitive warrior spirit of the past. With this in mind I would question whether the current squad has either the identity or the stomach for a relegation battle. My hope is that we’ll somehow muster the three or so wins and a few draws to escape, but if we do fall into the bottom 3 in the next few weeks I can’t help question if we would have the fight to climb out. We have an Identity, but it's one that is not 'us'. Patient, passing, possession based (not that we have the possession). Problem is that we should be a fast, direct & counter-attacking(?) side. We are a Cat who Identifies as a Dog; "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 07 Mar 23 2.23pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

In each case, whether you agreed with the tactics or not, you could understand the objectives and purpose.

We have an Identity, but it's one that is not 'us'. Patient, passing, possession based (not that we have the possession). Problem is that we should be a fast, direct & counter-attacking(?) side.

We are a Cat who Identifies as a Dog;

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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SwordFish Peasmarsh,East Sussex 07 Mar 23 2.54pm
Originally posted by The groover I've just done the stats on the new 9 team relegation group. Games V each other. It's quite interesting in that we are top having played the least games. Backs up the fact that we have played nearly all of the top teams already and that this mini league will be what matters. ............P........Pts....Pts/game Palace......8.........16.......2 Leicester...10........16.......1.6 Wolves......11........16.......1.45 Everton.....12........15.......1.25 Forest......12........15.......1.25 Bourne......10........14.......1.4 West ham....11........14.......1.27 Leeds.......10........12.......1.2 South.......12........11.......0.92 It is a double edge sword for between teams in this mini league. A win and its all smiles. A draw if you are above the team you play again smiles not so if you are the team below. A defeat and its a very sad face. Southampton, Everton and forest only have 4 mini league games to play whilst we have 8. 5 of our mini league games are at home. We could play as bad as Leeds have and still get the required points. Very interesting and well put together mate! And also shows that all this negativity maybe emotion based “This is a crisis, a large crisis.... in fact if you have a moment, it’s a 12 storey crisis, magnificent entrance hall, carpeting throughout, 24 hour portage , and an enormous sign on the roof saying “This , is a large crisis” - Edmund Blackadder
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SwordFish

Peasmarsh,East Sussex 07 Mar 23 2.54pm

Originally posted by The groover

Southampton, Everton and forest only have 4 mini league games to play whilst we have 8.

5 of our mini league games are at home. We could play as bad as Leeds have and still get the required points.

Very interesting and well put together mate! And also shows that all this negativity maybe emotion based

“This is a crisis, a large crisis.... in fact if you have a moment, it’s a 12 storey crisis, magnificent entrance hall, carpeting throughout, 24 hour portage , and an enormous sign on the roof saying “This , is a large crisis” - Edmund Blackadder

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Eaglecoops Online CR3 07 Mar 23 4.18pm
Originally posted by SwordFish Very interesting and well put together mate! And also shows that all this negativity maybe emotion based Except for the fact that we are not guaranteed to get anything out of games against these sides. We couldn’t even beat Southampton in a cup match they weren’t really bothered about so not sure how we are going to fare against teams scrapping for their survival.
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Eaglecoops Online

CR3 07 Mar 23 4.18pm

Originally posted by SwordFish

Very interesting and well put together mate! And also shows that all this negativity maybe emotion based

Except for the fact that we are not guaranteed to get anything out of games against these sides. We couldn’t even beat Southampton in a cup match they weren’t really bothered about so not sure how we are going to fare against teams scrapping for their survival.

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MrRobbo Purley 07 Mar 23 4.26pm
Originally posted by The groover I've just done the stats on the new 9 team relegation group. Games V each other. It's quite interesting in that we are top having played the least games. Backs up the fact that we have played nearly all of the top teams already and that this mini league will be what matters. ............P........Pts....Pts/game Palace......8.........16.......2 Leicester...10........16.......1.6 Wolves......11........16.......1.45 Everton.....12........15.......1.25 Forest......12........15.......1.25 Bourne......10........14.......1.4 West ham....11........14.......1.27 Leeds.......10........12.......1.2 South.......12........11.......0.92 It is a double edge sword for between teams in this mini league. A win and its all smiles. A draw if you are above the team you play again smiles not so if you are the team below. A defeat and its a very sad face. Southampton, Everton and forest only have 4 mini league games to play whilst we have 8. 5 of our mini league games are at home. We could play as bad as Leeds have and still get the required points. Great for context. We have undoubtedly been pretty poor of late, but as you say we have had a lot of hard games. Its easy to forget that we drew against a Utd team that had won 9 in a row, Newcastle, Brentford and Brighton who were all flying. And a Liverpool team that have jsut shown how deadly they can be against Utd. The only result that was really bad of late was Villa. But it was a game of v fine margins, and they didnt deserve to win either.
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MrRobbo

Purley 07 Mar 23 4.26pm

Originally posted by The groover

Southampton, Everton and forest only have 4 mini league games to play whilst we have 8.

5 of our mini league games are at home. We could play as bad as Leeds have and still get the required points.

Great for context.

We have undoubtedly been pretty poor of late, but as you say we have had a lot of hard games.

Its easy to forget that we drew against a Utd team that had won 9 in a row, Newcastle, Brentford and Brighton who were all flying. And a Liverpool team that have jsut shown how deadly they can be against Utd.

The only result that was really bad of late was Villa. But it was a game of v fine margins, and they didnt deserve to win either.

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SwordFish Peasmarsh,East Sussex 07 Mar 23 4.43pm
Originally posted by Eaglecoops Except for the fact that we are not guaranteed to get anything out of games against these sides. We couldn’t even beat Southampton in a cup match they weren’t really bothered about so not sure how we are going to fare against teams scrapping for their survival. We will get 3 wins and a couple of draws at bare minimum “This is a crisis, a large crisis.... in fact if you have a moment, it’s a 12 storey crisis, magnificent entrance hall, carpeting throughout, 24 hour portage , and an enormous sign on the roof saying “This , is a large crisis” - Edmund Blackadder
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SwordFish

Peasmarsh,East Sussex 07 Mar 23 4.43pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

We will get 3 wins and a couple of draws at bare minimum

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PJEagle London 08 Mar 23 10.42am
Originally posted by SwordFish We will get 3 wins and a couple of draws at bare minimum I hope you're right but I don't see where they're coming from [Link]
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PJEagle

London 08 Mar 23 10.42am

Originally posted by SwordFish

We will get 3 wins and a couple of draws at bare minimum

I hope you're right but I don't see where they're coming from

[Link]

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Den1923 08 Mar 23 11.12am
Originally posted by PJEagle I hope you're right but I don't see where they're coming from [Link] I hope so as well! statistically, we have 13 games left (6 home & 7 away) therefore based on the season statistics to date we should, win 3 (9pts), draw 5 (5pts) and lose 5. Hopefully this could happen in which case we could end up with 41 points. However bearing in mind West Ham were relegated in I think 2002 with 42 points we cannot at this stage say with any certainty that we will not be relegated!
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Den1923

08 Mar 23 11.12am

Originally posted by PJEagle

I hope you're right but I don't see where they're coming from

[Link]

I hope so as well! statistically, we have 13 games left (6 home & 7 away) therefore based on the season statistics to date we should, win 3 (9pts), draw 5 (5pts) and lose 5. Hopefully this could happen in which case we could end up with 41 points. However bearing in mind West Ham were relegated in I think 2002 with 42 points we cannot at this stage say with any certainty that we will not be relegated!

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southnorwoodhill 08 Mar 23 3.00pm
I think everyone will agree that the 3 recent draws against strong opposition have managed (just) to keep us clear of the dreaded trap-door zone. Clearly the team adapts well to Royball, it being engrained those players still here from Roy's days. At what point does Vieira decide to push more men forward in search of elusive goals and wins? Or will he stick to the defensive game that earned us those points (somewhat fortuitously imho)? With the teams around us starting to get goals and results, faffing around behind the half way line won't be good enough.
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southnorwoodhill

08 Mar 23 3.00pm

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I think everyone will agree that the 3 recent draws against strong opposition have managed (just) to keep us clear of the dreaded trap-door zone. Clearly the team adapts well to Royball, it being engrained those players still here from Roy's days.
At what point does Vieira decide to push more men forward in search of elusive goals and wins? Or will he stick to the defensive game that earned us those points (somewhat fortuitously imho)?
With the teams around us starting to get goals and results, faffing around behind the half way line won't be good enough.

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palace99 New Mills 08 Mar 23 5.18pm
Originally posted by PatrickA We lack identity as a team and it’s unclear what we are trying to achieve. Under Pulis we were very competitive , trying to win individual battles around the field, keeping it tight and looking to threaten on set pieces. Under Allardyce we were direct, trying to hit Benteke as quickly as possible and getting Zaha and Townsend close to him to threaten the opposition. Under Hodgson we blocked the spaces, defended deep and looked to counter attack when opportunities presented themselves. In each case, whether you agreed with the tactics or not, you could understand the objectives and purpose. I’m not clear what we are trying to achieve presently and suggest the team lack a clear identity. There is vague talk about playing ‘between the lines’ and we often retain possession, but to my eyes with often little purpose. We are providing little threat to the opposition so our approach is clearly ineffective,at least in an attacking sense. We no longer have the pace in the team to offer a viable counterattacking threat and we longer have the competitive warrior spirit of the past. With this in mind I would question whether the current squad has either the identity or the stomach for a relegation battle. My hope is that we’ll somehow muster the three or so wins and a few draws to escape, but if we do fall into the bottom 3 in the next few weeks I can’t help question if we would have the fight to climb out. excellent summary. Regarding the possession i think we have gone massively backwards this season. Yes we still try to pass out from the back but as the midfield rarely drop and create the space it falls down quite quickly and/or we hit it long. Most games now we seem to have 30 to 40% possession so the PV possession based football is clearly not happening
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palace99

New Mills 08 Mar 23 5.18pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

In each case, whether you agreed with the tactics or not, you could understand the objectives and purpose.

I’m not clear what we are trying to achieve presently and suggest the team lack a clear identity.
There is vague talk about playing ‘between the lines’ and we often retain possession, but to my eyes with often little purpose.
We are providing little threat to the opposition so our approach is clearly ineffective,at least in an attacking sense.
We no longer have the pace in the team to offer a viable counterattacking threat and we longer have the competitive warrior spirit of the past.
With this in mind I would question whether the current squad has either the identity or the stomach for a relegation battle.
My hope is that we’ll somehow muster the three or so wins and a few draws to escape, but if we do fall into the bottom 3 in the next few weeks I can’t help question if we would have the fight to climb out.

excellent summary.

Regarding the possession i think we have gone massively backwards this season. Yes we still try to pass out from the back but as the midfield rarely drop and create the space it falls down quite quickly and/or we hit it long. Most games now we seem to have 30 to 40% possession so the PV possession based football is clearly not happening

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