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French bomb ISIS

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 29 Sep 15 8.50am Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Quote DanH at 29 Sep 2015 8.49am

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 8.25am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Sep 2015 10.17pm

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.06pm

Not bloody likely.

I see the, waste of space, Greens have decided to try and waste more money, as they don't think we should've killed those w***ers in Syria.

[Link]

Hopefully they simply get told to sod off, by whomever needs to make the decision.

Personally, I have no problem with killing people in IS provided its done with oversight and within the law. Or is there a new rule by which the Prime Minister and a selected few have the arbitrary decision on who lives and dies?



Was the Battle of Britain conducted 'within the law'? Or the Normandy Landings? Or El Alamein? This is a f*cking war we're talking about here. No time to send IS a message saying 'sorry, chaps, but we're about to destroy one of your key positions so we'd be awfully obliged if you'd move your fellas out beforehand as we wouldn't want any collateral damage, now, would we?'


That mean you'd have no complaints if they did the same on our shores? This is a f*cking war, after all.

Catamite.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View leifandersonshair's Profile leifandersonshair Flag Newport 29 Sep 15 8.51am Send a Private Message to leifandersonshair Add leifandersonshair as a friend

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 8.25am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Sep 2015 10.17pm

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.06pm

Not bloody likely.

I see the, waste of space, Greens have decided to try and waste more money, as they don't think we should've killed those w***ers in Syria.

[Link]

Hopefully they simply get told to sod off, by whomever needs to make the decision.

Personally, I have no problem with killing people in IS provided its done with oversight and within the law. Or is there a new rule by which the Prime Minister and a selected few have the arbitrary decision on who lives and dies?



Was the Battle of Britain conducted 'within the law'? Or the Normandy Landings? Or El Alamein? This is a f*cking war we're talking about here. No time to send IS a message saying 'sorry, chaps, but we're about to destroy one of your key positions so we'd be awfully obliged if you'd move your fellas out beforehand as we wouldn't want any collateral damage, now, would we?'

Yes, actually. The Battle of Britain, Normandy Landings and El Alamein were conducted 'within the law'. Recognised international law; a state of war existed between the relevant countries. Geneva Conventions for the treatment of prisoners were generally followed, by British and Germans alike.

I think the point being made is; it is dangerous when we are not at war with a country, but apparently with individuals or groups. That's fine- these people are (probably) terrorists and deserve everything they get. BUT things are a lot hazier in regards to extrajudicial assassinations by the state. Which is what this was. They were not fighting for the other side in a war we are involved in. They probably were fighting for A side in a civil war, and would have been a danger had they returned to the UK. Fine. Arrest them and lock them up as soon as they get to Heathrow. Or bar them from returning and strip them of citizenship.

I am uneasy with the idea that the government can bomb the hell out of a British citizen abroad, then say 'it's okay, he was a bad guy, trust us'.

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 29 Sep 15 10.15am Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Sep 2015 10.17pm

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.06pm

Not bloody likely.

I see the, waste of space, Greens have decided to try and waste more money, as they don't think we should've killed those w***ers in Syria.

[Link]

Hopefully they simply get told to sod off, by whomever needs to make the decision.

Personally, I have no problem with killing people in IS provided its done with oversight and within the law. Or is there a new rule by which the Prime Minister and a selected few have the arbitrary decision on who lives and dies?


It's not a new one, no. It's the one he quoted from the UN charter of rights, that the US have been using for about a decade in pakistan without the hoo hah we've got for doing it once, on so-called British citizens.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 29 Sep 15 10.20am Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote DanH at 29 Sep 2015 8.49am

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 8.25am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Sep 2015 10.17pm

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.06pm

Not bloody likely.

I see the, waste of space, Greens have decided to try and waste more money, as they don't think we should've killed those w***ers in Syria.

[Link]

Hopefully they simply get told to sod off, by whomever needs to make the decision.

Personally, I have no problem with killing people in IS provided its done with oversight and within the law. Or is there a new rule by which the Prime Minister and a selected few have the arbitrary decision on who lives and dies?



Was the Battle of Britain conducted 'within the law'? Or the Normandy Landings? Or El Alamein? This is a f*cking war we're talking about here. No time to send IS a message saying 'sorry, chaps, but we're about to destroy one of your key positions so we'd be awfully obliged if you'd move your fellas out beforehand as we wouldn't want any collateral damage, now, would we?'


That mean you'd have no complaints if they did the same on our shores? This is a f*cking war, after all.

This war is on their turf, not our shores.


 


Optimistic as ever

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 29 Sep 15 10.23am

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 8.25am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Sep 2015 10.17pm

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.06pm

Not bloody likely.

I see the, waste of space, Greens have decided to try and waste more money, as they don't think we should've killed those w***ers in Syria.

[Link]

Hopefully they simply get told to sod off, by whomever needs to make the decision.

Personally, I have no problem with killing people in IS provided its done with oversight and within the law. Or is there a new rule by which the Prime Minister and a selected few have the arbitrary decision on who lives and dies?



Was the Battle of Britain conducted 'within the law'? Or the Normandy Landings? Or El Alamein? This is a f*cking war we're talking about here. No time to send IS a message saying 'sorry, chaps, but we're about to destroy one of your key positions so we'd be awfully obliged if you'd move your fellas out beforehand as we wouldn't want any collateral damage, now, would we?'

Actually, yes they were. More or less, plus I distinctly remember them hanging a s**tload of war criminals after the second world war (and arresting and punishing even some allied soliders for crimes committed during war, including unlawful killing).

Also, we're not talking about 'giving them a warning' before we blow up a known IS location (perfectly legal) were talking about killing specific people with drone strikes, who are suspected of being part of terrorist organization, on the basis of intelligence reports.

That's never gone badly wrong before. Its not like we recently invaded an entire country on utterly false intelligence and the say so of a Prime Minister. That hasn't at all blown up in our faces (infact an indirect result is the creation of ISIS, from Al-Qaeda in Iraq, and the fact we're bombing the f**k out of Syria now.

When the state kills individuals, it needs to legally determine the right to do so, and that its actions are lawful (and that the targets are actually reasonably likely to be guilty of something).

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 29 Sep 15 10.29am Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Sep 2015 10.23am

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 8.25am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Sep 2015 10.17pm

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.06pm

Not bloody likely.

I see the, waste of space, Greens have decided to try and waste more money, as they don't think we should've killed those w***ers in Syria.

[Link]

Hopefully they simply get told to sod off, by whomever needs to make the decision.

Personally, I have no problem with killing people in IS provided its done with oversight and within the law. Or is there a new rule by which the Prime Minister and a selected few have the arbitrary decision on who lives and dies?



Was the Battle of Britain conducted 'within the law'? Or the Normandy Landings? Or El Alamein? This is a f*cking war we're talking about here. No time to send IS a message saying 'sorry, chaps, but we're about to destroy one of your key positions so we'd be awfully obliged if you'd move your fellas out beforehand as we wouldn't want any collateral damage, now, would we?'

Actually, yes they were. More or less, plus I distinctly remember them hanging a s**tload of war criminals after the second world war (and arresting and punishing even some allied soliders for crimes committed during war, including unlawful killing).

Also, we're not talking about 'giving them a warning' before we blow up a known IS location (perfectly legal) were talking about killing specific people with drone strikes, who are suspected of being part of terrorist organization, on the basis of intelligence reports.

That's never gone badly wrong before. Its not like we recently invaded an entire country on utterly false intelligence and the say so of a Prime Minister. That hasn't at all blown up in our faces (infact an indirect result is the creation of ISIS, from Al-Qaeda in Iraq, and the fact we're bombing the f**k out of Syria now.

When the state kills individuals, it needs to legally determine the right to do so, and that its actions are lawful (and that the targets are actually reasonably likely to be guilty of something).


So presumably the assassination of Heydrich in 1942 was 'illegal' by your criteria. This was, after all, the deliberate targeting of an individual. As far as I'm concerned, the scum targeted in these drone attacks represent as much of a threat as Heydrich did - we are at war with IS and I see their surgical elimination as entirely morally justifiable.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 29 Sep 15 10.29am

Quote Stuk at 29 Sep 2015 10.15am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Sep 2015 10.17pm

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.06pm

Not bloody likely.

I see the, waste of space, Greens have decided to try and waste more money, as they don't think we should've killed those w***ers in Syria.

[Link]

Hopefully they simply get told to sod off, by whomever needs to make the decision.

Personally, I have no problem with killing people in IS provided its done with oversight and within the law. Or is there a new rule by which the Prime Minister and a selected few have the arbitrary decision on who lives and dies?


It's not a new one, no. It's the one he quoted from the UN charter of rights, that the US have been using for about a decade in pakistan without the hoo hah we've got for doing it once, on so-called British citizens.

That's the US, they didn't recently have parliament decide not to expand airstrikes into Syria. I don't want a 'we have the right', all I want is that people are accountable for the decisions they make when conducting what essentially amounts to an assassination - i.e. A judge maybe, to actually determine that the information presented of someone actually being a valid target is crosses a reasonable threshold.

Because what you have otherwise, is the state executing people without trial or oversight, on the basis of intelligence, which lets face it was a dogs breakfast over Iraq. Accountability. Preferably before we start doing things like firing drone missiles into Wedding parties or houses where 'someone might be' and killing a shed load of civilians, and then deciding its better to cover it all up.

Just like we were sure WMD were in Iraq, and the British weren't complicit in torture, or rendition.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 29 Sep 15 10.38am

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 10.29am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Sep 2015 10.23am

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 8.25am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Sep 2015 10.17pm

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.06pm

Not bloody likely.

I see the, waste of space, Greens have decided to try and waste more money, as they don't think we should've killed those w***ers in Syria.

[Link]

Hopefully they simply get told to sod off, by whomever needs to make the decision.

Personally, I have no problem with killing people in IS provided its done with oversight and within the law. Or is there a new rule by which the Prime Minister and a selected few have the arbitrary decision on who lives and dies?



Was the Battle of Britain conducted 'within the law'? Or the Normandy Landings? Or El Alamein? This is a f*cking war we're talking about here. No time to send IS a message saying 'sorry, chaps, but we're about to destroy one of your key positions so we'd be awfully obliged if you'd move your fellas out beforehand as we wouldn't want any collateral damage, now, would we?'

Actually, yes they were. More or less, plus I distinctly remember them hanging a s**tload of war criminals after the second world war (and arresting and punishing even some allied soliders for crimes committed during war, including unlawful killing).

Also, we're not talking about 'giving them a warning' before we blow up a known IS location (perfectly legal) were talking about killing specific people with drone strikes, who are suspected of being part of terrorist organization, on the basis of intelligence reports.

That's never gone badly wrong before. Its not like we recently invaded an entire country on utterly false intelligence and the say so of a Prime Minister. That hasn't at all blown up in our faces (infact an indirect result is the creation of ISIS, from Al-Qaeda in Iraq, and the fact we're bombing the f**k out of Syria now.

When the state kills individuals, it needs to legally determine the right to do so, and that its actions are lawful (and that the targets are actually reasonably likely to be guilty of something).


So presumably the assassination of Heydrich in 1942 was 'illegal' by your criteria. This was, after all, the deliberate targeting of an individual. As far as I'm concerned, the scum targeted in these drone attacks represent as much of a threat as Heydrich did - we are at war with IS and I see their surgical elimination as entirely morally justifiable.

No, because he was a known Nazi, a member of the German SS and well known to be a enemy. The uniform was a give away.

I do think killing IS members is justifiable, I'd just like it to actually be shown to be justified. Rule of law. Heydrich was targeted by a specialist team directed by Czech agents. Of course on the basis of faulty information the Nazis then destroyed two villages in reprisal for the assassination.

I'd rather we were on the first side, rather than ending up doing the later.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 29 Sep 15 10.44am Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Sep 2015 10.38am

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 10.29am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Sep 2015 10.23am

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 8.25am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Sep 2015 10.17pm

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.06pm

Not bloody likely.

I see the, waste of space, Greens have decided to try and waste more money, as they don't think we should've killed those w***ers in Syria.

[Link]

Hopefully they simply get told to sod off, by whomever needs to make the decision.

Personally, I have no problem with killing people in IS provided its done with oversight and within the law. Or is there a new rule by which the Prime Minister and a selected few have the arbitrary decision on who lives and dies?



Was the Battle of Britain conducted 'within the law'? Or the Normandy Landings? Or El Alamein? This is a f*cking war we're talking about here. No time to send IS a message saying 'sorry, chaps, but we're about to destroy one of your key positions so we'd be awfully obliged if you'd move your fellas out beforehand as we wouldn't want any collateral damage, now, would we?'

Actually, yes they were. More or less, plus I distinctly remember them hanging a s**tload of war criminals after the second world war (and arresting and punishing even some allied soliders for crimes committed during war, including unlawful killing).

Also, we're not talking about 'giving them a warning' before we blow up a known IS location (perfectly legal) were talking about killing specific people with drone strikes, who are suspected of being part of terrorist organization, on the basis of intelligence reports.

That's never gone badly wrong before. Its not like we recently invaded an entire country on utterly false intelligence and the say so of a Prime Minister. That hasn't at all blown up in our faces (infact an indirect result is the creation of ISIS, from Al-Qaeda in Iraq, and the fact we're bombing the f**k out of Syria now.

When the state kills individuals, it needs to legally determine the right to do so, and that its actions are lawful (and that the targets are actually reasonably likely to be guilty of something).


So presumably the assassination of Heydrich in 1942 was 'illegal' by your criteria. This was, after all, the deliberate targeting of an individual. As far as I'm concerned, the scum targeted in these drone attacks represent as much of a threat as Heydrich did - we are at war with IS and I see their surgical elimination as entirely morally justifiable.

No, because he was a known Nazi, a member of the German SS and well known to be a enemy. The uniform was a give away.

I do think killing IS members is justifiable, I'd just like it to actually be shown to be justified. Rule of law. Heydrich was targeted by a specialist team directed by Czech agents. Of course on the basis of faulty information the Nazis then destroyed two villages in reprisal for the assassination.

I'd rather we were on the first side, rather than ending up doing the later.


And so were these people taken out by drones identified as enemies. So what's the difference? Perfectly legitimate and both intelligence-led.

The assassination of Heydrich was a British operation from start to finish, carried out by Czechs. It was not under Czech direction.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 29 Sep 15 10.46am Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Sep 2015 10.38am

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 10.29am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Sep 2015 10.23am

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 8.25am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Sep 2015 10.17pm

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.06pm

Not bloody likely.

I see the, waste of space, Greens have decided to try and waste more money, as they don't think we should've killed those w***ers in Syria.

[Link]

Hopefully they simply get told to sod off, by whomever needs to make the decision.

Personally, I have no problem with killing people in IS provided its done with oversight and within the law. Or is there a new rule by which the Prime Minister and a selected few have the arbitrary decision on who lives and dies?



Was the Battle of Britain conducted 'within the law'? Or the Normandy Landings? Or El Alamein? This is a f*cking war we're talking about here. No time to send IS a message saying 'sorry, chaps, but we're about to destroy one of your key positions so we'd be awfully obliged if you'd move your fellas out beforehand as we wouldn't want any collateral damage, now, would we?'

Actually, yes they were. More or less, plus I distinctly remember them hanging a s**tload of war criminals after the second world war (and arresting and punishing even some allied soliders for crimes committed during war, including unlawful killing).

Also, we're not talking about 'giving them a warning' before we blow up a known IS location (perfectly legal) were talking about killing specific people with drone strikes, who are suspected of being part of terrorist organization, on the basis of intelligence reports.

That's never gone badly wrong before. Its not like we recently invaded an entire country on utterly false intelligence and the say so of a Prime Minister. That hasn't at all blown up in our faces (infact an indirect result is the creation of ISIS, from Al-Qaeda in Iraq, and the fact we're bombing the f**k out of Syria now.

When the state kills individuals, it needs to legally determine the right to do so, and that its actions are lawful (and that the targets are actually reasonably likely to be guilty of something).


So presumably the assassination of Heydrich in 1942 was 'illegal' by your criteria. This was, after all, the deliberate targeting of an individual. As far as I'm concerned, the scum targeted in these drone attacks represent as much of a threat as Heydrich did - we are at war with IS and I see their surgical elimination as entirely morally justifiable.

No, because he was a known Nazi, a member of the German SS and well known to be a enemy. The uniform was a give away.

I do think killing IS members is justifiable, I'd just like it to actually be shown to be justified. Rule of law. Heydrich was targeted by a specialist team directed by Czech agents. Of course on the basis of faulty information the Nazis then destroyed two villages in reprisal for the assassination.

I'd rather we were on the first side, rather than ending up doing the later.


Will not lose one wink of sleep over any IS members British or otherwise who get blown to bits, in fact I'd like to shake the hand of the pilot who dropped the bomb and buy him a beer, whether it is legal in the eyes of two rug unchers from the green party is totally and utterly irrelevant.

Any who thinks differently (maybe not the shake hand and beer bit) is by definition of their opinion an apologist handringer whose head is so far up thier own liberal hippy arse they can lick their own tonsils.

IS is a cancer on this world, and like Cancer it needs cutting out and treating before it spreads.

Edited by dannyh (29 Sep 2015 10.48am)

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 29 Sep 15 10.48am Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Sep 2015 10.29am

Quote Stuk at 29 Sep 2015 10.15am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 28 Sep 2015 10.17pm

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.06pm

Not bloody likely.

I see the, waste of space, Greens have decided to try and waste more money, as they don't think we should've killed those w***ers in Syria.

[Link]

Hopefully they simply get told to sod off, by whomever needs to make the decision.

Personally, I have no problem with killing people in IS provided its done with oversight and within the law. Or is there a new rule by which the Prime Minister and a selected few have the arbitrary decision on who lives and dies?


It's not a new one, no. It's the one he quoted from the UN charter of rights, that the US have been using for about a decade in pakistan without the hoo hah we've got for doing it once, on so-called British citizens.

That's the US, they didn't recently have parliament decide not to expand airstrikes into Syria. I don't want a 'we have the right', all I want is that people are accountable for the decisions they make when conducting what essentially amounts to an assassination - i.e. A judge maybe, to actually determine that the information presented of someone actually being a valid target is crosses a reasonable threshold.

Because what you have otherwise, is the state executing people without trial or oversight, on the basis of intelligence, which lets face it was a dogs breakfast over Iraq. Accountability. Preferably before we start doing things like firing drone missiles into Wedding parties or houses where 'someone might be' and killing a shed load of civilians, and then deciding its better to cover it all up.

Just like we were sure WMD were in Iraq, and the British weren't complicit in torture, or rendition.


Two years ago isn't recently, things change.

How is a judge better qualified to determine a valid target than the military? People act like the PM just did this all on his own. The decision probably involved quite a lot of people, and a lot more qualified people than those that Mr & Mrs Smith voted for as they said they'll keep our local library open.

Then we go into amdram... "what if a wedding or house full of civlians get killed..."

 


Optimistic as ever

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 29 Sep 15 10.48am Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

No need to bomb them when the UN will put sanctions on them.

Bet they're s***ting themselves now

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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