Is this Racist?
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jamiemartin721  Reading 05 Jan 17 4.13pm |
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Originally posted by johnfirewall
Are there blurred boundaries on what constitutes a racist crime and perhaps a bit too much emphasis on the motives for what are appalling crimes regardless? In a case where someone is physically harmed by perpetrators making derogatory statements, police are still trying to 'determine whether or not this is sincere or just stupid ranting and raving', while a joke on Twitter is cut and dry racism. A crime this is not. Its a transgression maybe against taste and social decorum. And you're right there is a difference between racism that is a crime of hate based on race, and something like this which is probably a stupid in joke or 'cheeky' racism. Society should rightly have minimal tolerance for those who turn their own prejudices into justification to cause harm and suffering to others. We should, and do, differentiate between crimes of hate and prejudice, with what amounts to 'harmless' racism or a bit of tongue in cheek.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jan 17 5.24pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
There is a difference between going as a specific person (say Mr T - would be odd if you weren't blacked up - but that's in homage). I think the fact that someone has blacked up, to get a laugh, is probably a bit racist. As far as I'm aware 'sunglass seller' isn't a common fancy dress theme, and it probably relates to an 'in joke'. Of course proper journalists would maybe ask the individual why they chose to 'go as they did' - Context is always more important than the surface issues.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Jan 17 5.31pm |
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Is this racist?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jan 17 5.49pm |
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It's weird, that's for sure. I'm all for drawing attention to the disgraceful practice of female genital mutilation and this has done I suppose,albeit in a strange manner.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jan 17 6.21pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
About fifteen minutes, and its racist (and more importantly about as funny as discovering a discharge from your bell end, on the same day your wife left you, and the bank repossessed your house). Actually I think my issue with many of these things is that people think they're funny, and that's what offends me. White Chicks is offensive, because I actually like cinema and movies, and its existence taints every other film you loved as well as your own integrity. Maybe that's it. When Robert Downy Jr blacked up in Tropic of Thunder, I couldn't care less, because it was actually funny (he was, the film is okish).
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jan 17 6.23pm |
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Its art (of a kind I guess) so it probably gets a pass on cultural grounds.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jan 17 7.36pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
About fifteen minutes, and its racist (and more importantly about as funny as discovering a discharge from your bell end, on the same day your wife left you, and the bank repossessed your house). Actually I think my issue with many of these things is that people think they're funny, and that's what offends me. White Chicks is offensive, because I actually like cinema and movies, and its existence taints every other film you loved as well as your own integrity. Maybe that's it. When Robert Downy Jr blacked up in Tropic of Thunder, I couldn't care less, because it was actually funny (he was, the film is okish). So it's not racist because it's funny to you? I'm not sure that the liberal/left fascist brigade would agree or indeed actual black people(remember them?) Being white, I really don't care about any of this and as I have said, for their own sake, people need to stop gauging their value by the limitations of others. If a black man mocks my whiteness I don't give a damn and when the reverse can be said, then perhaps we will have finally achieved equality.
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| johnfirewall 05 Jan 17 9.02pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
We should, and do, differentiate between crimes of hate and prejudice, with what amounts to 'harmless' racism or a bit of tongue in cheek. Completely. But the fact that something can be construed as racist automatically renders it harmful in that someone can and probably will claim offence from it. The idea that no offence was intended no longer applies, and any the suggestion that no one was genuinely hurt is completely redundant. Edited by johnfirewall (05 Jan 2017 9.03pm)
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Jan 17 8.13am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Its art (of a kind I guess) so it probably gets a pass on cultural grounds. A good illustration that the label racist is subjective, it is in the eye of the beholder, and that something shown or said can be considered racist depending on who is doing the communicating and to what purpose the communication is being put.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Jan 17 11.44am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
So it's not racist because it's funny to you? I'm not sure that the liberal/left fascist brigade would agree or indeed actual black people(remember them?) Being white, I really don't care about any of this and as I have said, for their own sake, people need to stop gauging their value by the limitations of others. If a black man mocks my whiteness I don't give a damn and when the reverse can be said, then perhaps we will have finally achieved equality. I was kind of joking, but I do think in comedy if you can actually make people laugh at you, because of something that's technically racist, rather than mocking black people, then its not racist. The Alf Garnet principle, In Sickness and in Health isn't racist, the character is, but he's the butt of the joke. Stupid people think its racist, because they focus on the surface issue, or weirdly 'identify' with the character as 'being honest and telling it like it is', but in truth, the joke is the racist and the stupidity of racism. White Chicks is offensive primarily because its such a s**t film, if the film disappeared overnight from peoples minds and existence, then humanities average integrity and IQ would probably rise.
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 06 Jan 17 12.23pm |
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So when Footy fans dress up as scousers in perm wig, tash, and shell suit shouting eh ehe he calm down calm down, is that taking the piss ? Or is it stereo typing ? Because to me there is no difference between dressing up to take the piss out of a scouser, or dressing up to take the piss out of a black sunglasses seller on the beach.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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Kermit8  Hevon 06 Jan 17 12.36pm |
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Originally posted by dannyh
So when Footy fans dress up as scousers in perm wig, tash, and shell suit shouting eh ehe he calm down calm down, is that taking the piss ? Or is it stereo typing ? Because to me there is no difference between dressing up to take the piss out of a scouser, or dressing up to take the piss out of a black sunglasses seller on the beach. Exactly. It's humourous stereotyping a la Harry Enfield and I bet if a real black sunglasses seller was at the party he would have been laughing at himself as well as with the guy. If not, it would just mean he had a chip on his shoulder. People are still getting real racism and racial referencing mixed up when they are so obviously different.
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