Terrorism

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Nov 17 4.41pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 So what your saying is that the 'liberal left voter' is responsible for decisions made by right wing and right of centre governments? Who exactly were the Liberal Left voting for between 1980 and 1997, and after 2010. I'd be surprised to hear they were voting Conservative I'm clearly not saying that. But they are making it easy for governments to pursue this policy by using the media to actively promote it.
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Nov 17 4.41pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

So what your saying is that the 'liberal left voter' is responsible for decisions made by right wing and right of centre governments?

Who exactly were the Liberal Left voting for between 1980 and 1997, and after 2010. I'd be surprised to hear they were voting Conservative

I'm clearly not saying that. But they are making it easy for governments to pursue this policy by using the media to actively promote it.

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Kermit8 Hevon 13 Nov 17 5.03pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I'm clearly not saying that. But they are making it easy for governments to pursue this policy by using the media to actively promote it. The published media which is in the main, the newspapers, are very right-wing indeed. The Mail, The Express, The Telegraph, The Sun and others. You don't quite get it. Everything you don't like today has evolved because your side pursued it and you voted for them and it over and over without examining the consequences. Of course you would vote Tory without question. It's in your nature but all the main Euro treaties were signed by Conservative governments; globalisation and aggressive capitalism in the UK happened under their watch too. The fallout is hugely because of your team's actions. You've been had but your voting preference say's it is with your blessing. Edited by Kermit8 (13 Nov 2017 5.08pm) Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 13 Nov 17 5.03pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I'm clearly not saying that. But they are making it easy for governments to pursue this policy by using the media to actively promote it.

The published media which is in the main, the newspapers, are very right-wing indeed. The Mail, The Express, The Telegraph, The Sun and others.

You don't quite get it. Everything you don't like today has evolved because your side pursued it and you voted for them and it over and over without examining the consequences. Of course you would vote Tory without question. It's in your nature but all the main Euro treaties were signed by Conservative governments; globalisation and aggressive capitalism in the UK happened under their watch too. The fallout is hugely because of your team's actions.

You've been had but your voting preference say's it is with your blessing.

Edited by Kermit8 (13 Nov 2017 5.08pm)

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Nov 17 5.19pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 The published media which is in the main, the newspapers, are very right-wing indeed. The Mail, The Express, The Telegraph, The Sun and others. You don't quite get it. Everything you don't like today has evolved because your side pursued it and you voted for them and it over and over without examining the consequences. Of course you would vote Tory without question. It's in your nature but all the main Euro treaties were signed by Conservative governments; globalisation and aggressive capitalism in the UK happened under their watch too. The fallout is hugely because of your team's actions. You've been had but your voting preference say's it is with your blessing. Edited by Kermit8 (13 Nov 2017 5.08pm) We are all had with our voting preferences and to say that Labour governments are not equally if not more guilty is just cobblers. The media is hugely left wing. Naming a few newspapers that are not doesn't alter that. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Nov 2017 5.21pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Nov 17 5.19pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

The published media which is in the main, the newspapers, are very right-wing indeed. The Mail, The Express, The Telegraph, The Sun and others.

You've been had but your voting preference say's it is with your blessing.

Edited by Kermit8 (13 Nov 2017 5.08pm)

We are all had with our voting preferences and to say that Labour governments are not equally if not more guilty is just cobblers.

The media is hugely left wing. Naming a few newspapers that are not doesn't alter that.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Nov 2017 5.21pm)

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hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Nov 17 5.27pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 The published media which is in the main, the newspapers, are very right-wing indeed. The Mail, The Express, The Telegraph, The Sun and others. You don't quite get it. Everything you don't like today has evolved because your side pursued it and you voted for them and it over and over without examining the consequences. Of course you would vote Tory without question. It's in your nature but all the main Euro treaties were signed by Conservative governments; globalisation and aggressive capitalism in the UK happened under their watch too. The fallout is hugely because of your team's actions. You've been had but your voting preference say's it is with your blessing. Edited by Kermit8 (13 Nov 2017 5.08pm) Guardian, Independent, Observer, The i ... And presumably you consider the 13 years of Labour government Tory then? And you voted for them over and over without examining the consequences. Of course you would vote Labour without question. It's in your nature. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 13 Nov 17 5.27pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

The published media which is in the main, the newspapers, are very right-wing indeed. The Mail, The Express, The Telegraph, The Sun and others.

You've been had but your voting preference say's it is with your blessing.

Edited by Kermit8 (13 Nov 2017 5.08pm)

Guardian, Independent, Observer, The i ... And presumably you consider the 13 years of Labour government Tory then? And you voted for them over and over without examining the consequences. Of course you would vote Labour without question. It's in your nature.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Nov 17 5.30pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I'm clearly not saying that. But they are making it easy for governments to pursue this policy by using the media to actively promote it. How exactly does that work then. If they're not the government, and they're not the majority of the people voting for the winning political party; how exactly can they be responsible for setting policy decisions. Could it be that 'the liberal left' are the majority that political parties appeal to in key swing constituencies. I'm not sure how they're making it easy for government to pursue such policy, if the government themselves aren't pushing those policies? How is this liberal left conspiracy subverting democratic process? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Nov 17 5.30pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I'm clearly not saying that. But they are making it easy for governments to pursue this policy by using the media to actively promote it.

How exactly does that work then. If they're not the government, and they're not the majority of the people voting for the winning political party; how exactly can they be responsible for setting policy decisions.

Could it be that 'the liberal left' are the majority that political parties appeal to in key swing constituencies.

I'm not sure how they're making it easy for government to pursue such policy, if the government themselves aren't pushing those policies? How is this liberal left conspiracy subverting democratic process?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Nov 17 5.33pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Guardian, Independent, Observer, The i ... And presumably you consider the 13 years of Labour government Tory then? And you voted for them over and over without examining the consequences. Of course you would vote Labour without question. It's in your nature. Where as the Telegraphy, the Times, the Sun and The Mail have no overt influence or represent different agendas. Whilst I'm not a fan of political bias, it would be weird to assume that there isn't a) a right wing press and b) that it doesn't have a wide circulation (in fact wider than the papers you mention). Of course, Murdoch and The Sun were big supporters of Blair and New Labour (right of centre politically, and widely regarded with suspicion and distrust by the traditional left over the history of their 'reign'). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Nov 17 5.33pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Where as the Telegraphy, the Times, the Sun and The Mail have no overt influence or represent different agendas.

Whilst I'm not a fan of political bias, it would be weird to assume that there isn't a) a right wing press and b) that it doesn't have a wide circulation (in fact wider than the papers you mention).

Of course, Murdoch and The Sun were big supporters of Blair and New Labour (right of centre politically, and widely regarded with suspicion and distrust by the traditional left over the history of their 'reign').

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 13 Nov 17 5.34pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger We are all had with our voting preferences and to say that Labour governments are not equally if not more guilty is just cobblers. The media is hugely left wing. Naming a few newspapers that are not doesn't alter that. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Nov 2017 5.21pm) You and your political ilk, the actual perpetraitors [sic] are a helluvalot more 'guilty' for where we find ourselves today socially and economically than those of the left who may or may not have done exactly the same things 1979-1997 had they been in power like the Right were. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 13 Nov 17 5.34pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

We are all had with our voting preferences and to say that Labour governments are not equally if not more guilty is just cobblers.

The media is hugely left wing. Naming a few newspapers that are not doesn't alter that.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Nov 2017 5.21pm)

You and your political ilk, the actual perpetraitors [sic] are a helluvalot more 'guilty' for where we find ourselves today socially and economically than those of the left who may or may not have done exactly the same things 1979-1997 had they been in power like the Right were.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Nov 17 5.41pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 The entire body politic has moved towards the liberal-left, that's why you hear the likes of UKIP called crypto-fascists, yet they just represent traditional Tory views. We have suffered from the consequences of the liberal-left drift exhibited by all parties. Mrs May should try putting forward Tory policies rather than pander to the delusional ideas of the liberal-left. So basically, democracy - c'est la vie. I think there in lies the problem, most voters these days are kind of liberal (rather than left or right wing) and respond to identity politics over economic strategy. Problem of the world, the old guard are talking ideological industrial era politics, in a time when consumer politics really holds sway. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Nov 17 5.41pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

The entire body politic has moved towards the liberal-left, that's why you hear the likes of UKIP called crypto-fascists, yet they just represent traditional Tory views. We have suffered from the consequences of the liberal-left drift exhibited by all parties. Mrs May should try putting forward Tory policies rather than pander to the delusional ideas of the liberal-left.

So basically, democracy - c'est la vie. I think there in lies the problem, most voters these days are kind of liberal (rather than left or right wing) and respond to identity politics over economic strategy.

Problem of the world, the old guard are talking ideological industrial era politics, in a time when consumer politics really holds sway.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Nov 17 5.41pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 How exactly does that work then. If they're not the government, and they're not the majority of the people voting for the winning political party; how exactly can they be responsible for setting policy decisions. Could it be that 'the liberal left' are the majority that political parties appeal to in key swing constituencies. I'm not sure how they're making it easy for government to pursue such policy, if the government themselves aren't pushing those policies? How is this liberal left conspiracy subverting democratic process? I never said they were. Be serious. The media, particularly visual media, is awash with liberal left propaganda promoting all things immigration and multicultural. You'd have to be deliberately blind not to see that. Governments have pursued this policy for themselves for quick fixes. Now we are persuaded by the media that it's all good. The reality is somewhat different. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Nov 2017 5.42pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Nov 17 5.41pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

How exactly does that work then. If they're not the government, and they're not the majority of the people voting for the winning political party; how exactly can they be responsible for setting policy decisions.

Could it be that 'the liberal left' are the majority that political parties appeal to in key swing constituencies.

I never said they were.
Be serious. The media, particularly visual media, is awash with liberal left propaganda promoting all things immigration and multicultural. You'd have to be deliberately blind not to see that.
Governments have pursued this policy for themselves for quick fixes. Now we are persuaded by the media that it's all good.
The reality is somewhat different.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Nov 2017 5.42pm)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Nov 17 5.50pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I never said it was. Be serious. The media, particularly visual media, is awash with liberal left propaganda promoting all things immigration and multicultural. You'd have to be deliberately blind not to see that. Governments have pursued this policy for themselves for quick fixes. Now we are persuaded by the media that it's all good. The reality is somewhat different. Thing is, I think most people's experience of daily life is that multiculturalism is kind of working. They mix with people of different ethnicities, cultures and religion on a daily basis, and have friends, schoolmates and work colleagues across those spectrums. Mixed cultural marriages and relationships seem more common place. Most people don't really seem to care about peoples race, culture, sexuality, gender, ethnicity etc in the way they used to. Problem is I think the reality is that those 'traditional views' aren't very popular anymore - and parties that hold them don't seem to do too well. UKIP once the referendum was done and dusted, immediately seemed to lose most of its support - because the issue wasn't 'multiculturalism' but EU migration (and they were right about that - the Freedom of Movement was a problem and an issue - not because of migration but because of the scale and impact on society). 'Traditional views' I think just aren't popular enough. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Nov 17 5.50pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I never said it was.
Be serious. The media, particularly visual media, is awash with liberal left propaganda promoting all things immigration and multicultural. You'd have to be deliberately blind not to see that.
Governments have pursued this policy for themselves for quick fixes. Now we are persuaded by the media that it's all good.
The reality is somewhat different.

Thing is, I think most people's experience of daily life is that multiculturalism is kind of working. They mix with people of different ethnicities, cultures and religion on a daily basis, and have friends, schoolmates and work colleagues across those spectrums. Mixed cultural marriages and relationships seem more common place.

Most people don't really seem to care about peoples race, culture, sexuality, gender, ethnicity etc in the way they used to.

Problem is I think the reality is that those 'traditional views' aren't very popular anymore - and parties that hold them don't seem to do too well.

UKIP once the referendum was done and dusted, immediately seemed to lose most of its support - because the issue wasn't 'multiculturalism' but EU migration (and they were right about that - the Freedom of Movement was a problem and an issue - not because of migration but because of the scale and impact on society).

'Traditional views' I think just aren't popular enough.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Nov 17 5.53pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Where as the Telegraphy, the Times, the Sun and The Mail have no overt influence or represent different agendas. Whilst I'm not a fan of political bias, it would be weird to assume that there isn't a) a right wing press and b) that it doesn't have a wide circulation (in fact wider than the papers you mention). Of course, Murdoch and The Sun were big supporters of Blair and New Labour (right of centre politically, and widely regarded with suspicion and distrust by the traditional left over the history of their 'reign'). Of course there is a mixture of political bias in newspapers. Is there a market for more left wing newspapers? I doubt it, but if there was, someone would be busy publishing one to meet market demand. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 13 Nov 17 5.53pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Where as the Telegraphy, the Times, the Sun and The Mail have no overt influence or represent different agendas.

Whilst I'm not a fan of political bias, it would be weird to assume that there isn't a) a right wing press and b) that it doesn't have a wide circulation (in fact wider than the papers you mention).

Of course there is a mixture of political bias in newspapers. Is there a market for more left wing newspapers? I doubt it, but if there was, someone would be busy publishing one to meet market demand.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Nov 17 5.56pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 So basically, democracy - c'est la vie. I think there in lies the problem, most voters these days are kind of liberal (rather than left or right wing) and respond to identity politics over economic strategy. Problem of the world, the old guard are talking ideological industrial era politics, in a time when consumer politics really holds sway. I don't think they are. To use that old expression, 'the silent majority' are largely conservative with a small 'c'. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 13 Nov 17 5.56pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

So basically, democracy - c'est la vie. I think there in lies the problem, most voters these days are kind of liberal (rather than left or right wing) and respond to identity politics over economic strategy.

Problem of the world, the old guard are talking ideological industrial era politics, in a time when consumer politics really holds sway.

I don't think they are. To use that old expression, 'the silent majority' are largely conservative with a small 'c'.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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